Infantry Discussion Thread 10: Shovel Edition [NO FWORDS]

[Spirit of Hope]

Knight bonks his head doing the crawling obstacle. Made me laugh.

What really looks to have hurt the soldier is that most of his load was on his back, making it higher, and really hurting him on that crawl.

It's not really that it was higher that made the whole thing more difficult, but that most of the weight was only supported by his shoulders. Same with the firefighter.

The knight's weight was spread out all over his body, which is why knight > all. I'm just annoyed at how slow the knight was moving initially though. He was basically just jogging, when in a well fitted suit of armour you can sprint just as well as anyone.

Both the knight and the fire fighter were better able to get their knees under them selves to help propel them forward. If you look closely you can see the soldier isn't able to get up on his knees as well as the other two, which forces him to use just his arms for forward motion on the crawl.

[Kazarogkai]

DO number of soldiers in squads differs between infantry types? Between Mechanized, Motorized, Light, Marine, Paras, etc.

From what I have seen Mechanized squads are a little smaller on average owing to the fact that they want their vehicles to remain light enough for amphibious maneuvers. Otherwise I'm guessing they would be the same more or less.

[Purpelia]

It's not just a matter of weight but of size. Your typical mechanized squad tends to drive around in an IFV. And IFVs tend to have turrets that take up a lot of space on the inside. So the squad has to be smaller since you don't want to have a 15m long IFV.

[Kazarogkai]

It's not just a matter of weight but of size. Your typical mechanized squad tends to drive around in an IFV. And IFVs tend to have turrets that take up a lot of space on the inside. So the squad has to be smaller since you don't want to have a 15m long IFV.

That too. Hence why old APCs which at best had an GPMG for protection were able to carry a bit more troops:

M2 Bradley 3 + 6

vs

BTR-50 2 + 20

[Puzikas]

It's not really that it was higher that made the whole thing more difficult, but that most of the weight was only supported by his shoulders. Same with the firefighter.

Firefighters loads are suspended from belt, neck, and shoulders. O2 tanks are secured on the shoulders and then retained on the waist of the jacket. Halogen bars and axes are suspended from O2 tanks in a lot of departments but usually are just hand tools.
Shoulders are the most logical place to suspend load from on a person, after that it's belt and nipples.
Modern firefighting equipment is very flexible and suspends weight in more places. It's easily the most nimble protective gear around because it needs to be and tons more development went into it.

t. work with a ton of firefighters.

[Aqizithiuda]

It's not really that it was higher that made the whole thing more difficult, but that most of the weight was only supported by his shoulders. Same with the firefighter.

Firefighters loads are suspended from belt, neck, and shoulders. O2 tanks are secured on the shoulders and then retained on the waist of the jacket. Halogen bars and axes are suspended from O2 tanks in a lot of departments but usually are just hand tools.
Shoulders are the most logical place to suspend load from on a person, after that it's belt and nipples.
Modern firefighting equipment is very flexible and suspends weight in more places. It's easily the most nimble protective gear around because it needs to be and tons more development went into it.

t. work with a ton of firefighters.

And the results show it. Despite being the most burdened, the firefighter had the fastest time during the heavy gear trials.

I guess the question is: can the military learn anything from the firemen in terms of gear distribution?

[Schwere Panzer Abteilung 502]

But the real mobility test: After a 30km forced march in under 5 hours, who can still dig a hole to sleep in?

[Purpelia]

But the real mobility test: After a 30km forced march in under 5 hours, who can still dig a hole to sleep in?

The knight. His equipment includes retainers to do that for him.

[Schwere Panzer Abteilung 502]

But the real mobility test: After a 30km forced march in under 5 hours, who can still dig a hole to sleep in?

The knight. His equipment includes retainers to do that for him.

True point. But I think ancient Macedonians were better. They retained a very high level of mobility for ancient armies(I mean, Romans were fast, but they also had a great roads system for much of their history - the Alexandrian flying columns typically went over terrain that can only be navigated by foot, and maybe horse), and were still a professional army in a very similar sense as the Romans or our modern armies.

[Gallia-]

Firefighters loads are suspended from belt, neck, and shoulders. O2 tanks are secured on the shoulders and then retained on the waist of the jacket. Halogen bars and axes are suspended from O2 tanks in a lot of departments but usually are just hand tools.
Shoulders are the most logical place to suspend load from on a person, after that it's belt and nipples.
Modern firefighting equipment is very flexible and suspends weight in more places. It's easily the most nimble protective gear around because it needs to be and tons more development went into it.

t. work with a ton of firefighters.

And the results show it. Despite being the most burdened, the firefighter had the fastest time during the heavy gear trials.

I guess the question is: can the military learn anything from the firemen in terms of gear distribution?

It would require returning to LBE vests instead of MOLLE.

Unacceptable for the snowflake generation of Western soldiers today.

Just give them machines to do it instead.

[Purpelia]

The knight. His equipment includes retainers to do that for him.

True point. But I think ancient Macedonians were better. They retained a very high level of mobility for ancient armies(I mean, Romans were fast, but they also had a great roads system for much of their history - the Alexandrian flying columns typically went over terrain that can only be navigated by foot, and maybe horse), and were still a professional army in a very similar sense as the Romans or our modern armies.

1. It was the ancient world. The "only" merely excludes ships.
2. Alexander was conquering from Greece, a relatively civilized and road ridden area and into Persia, an empire full of roads. I find it hard to buy that a Roman column invading into Gaul or Brattain had an easier time than him.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

If only the romans had B-29s. That would have shown those unwashed barbarians.

[Fordorsia]

I find it hard to buy that a Roman column invading into Gaul or Brattain had an easier time than him.

They did have an easier time, sooooo yeah

[Schwere Panzer Abteilung 502]

True point. But I think ancient Macedonians were better. They retained a very high level of mobility for ancient armies(I mean, Romans were fast, but they also had a great roads system for much of their history - the Alexandrian flying columns typically went over terrain that can only be navigated by foot, and maybe horse), and were still a professional army in a very similar sense as the Romans or our modern armies.

1. It was the ancient world. The "only" merely excludes ships.
2. Alexander was conquering from Greece, a relatively civilized and road ridden area and into Persia, an empire full of roads. I find it hard to buy that a Roman column invading into Gaul or Brattain had an easier time than him.

Not saying they didn't. But Alexander went a lot of places that were hardly even close to civilized. Anatolia, for example, historically had most of the population on coasts, even though Alexander went through Cappadocia; what about covering the 75 miles inland from Perga to Celaenae? The 120+ miles from Paraetonium to Siwa, through the Egyptian desert and a few random towns that certainly couldn't handle Alexander's 40.000+ army; this wasn't particularly different from the desert that swallowed Cambyses II's 50.000 person army. The geographical area of Media might have been called fertile back in the day, but Persia certainly wasn't, and Alex tore through them both. Then, of course, there's him going all the way to Pakistan and Tajikistan. Most famously, Afghanistan, hardly what I'd call easy country. I could go on. My point was that Roman armies marching out had a fantastic logistics system already setup, while Alexander and his generals had to depend on what they'd get if they found success - losing a single battle would surely have meant certain defeat.

[Fordorsia]

Rommel wrote in his diary that he was the reincarnation of Alexander. He proved it too.

[Crookfur]

True point. But I think ancient Macedonians were better. They retained a very high level of mobility for ancient armies(I mean, Romans were fast, but they also had a great roads system for much of their history - the Alexandrian flying columns typically went over terrain that can only be navigated by foot, and maybe horse), and were still a professional army in a very similar sense as the Romans or our modern armies.

1. It was the ancient world. The "only" merely excludes ships.
2. Alexander was conquering from Greece, a relatively civilized and road ridden area and into Persia, an empire full of roads. I find it hard to buy that a Roman column invading into Gaul or Brattain had an easier time than him.

You realise that that Gail and the British Isles already a pretty decent road network able to a somewhat fragmented and regionally varied one. IIRC a good percentage of Roman roads in Britain were actually built on existing roadways. Yes they improved and repaired the roads but they didn't have to forge new routes or anything. Heck in some cases, particularly on the floating/bog roads they just used them as they were.

[Schwere Panzer Abteilung 502]

1. It was the ancient world. The "only" merely excludes ships.
2. Alexander was conquering from Greece, a relatively civilized and road ridden area and into Persia, an empire full of roads. I find it hard to buy that a Roman column invading into Gaul or Brattain had an easier time than him.

You realise that that Gail and the British Isles already a pretty decent road network able to a somewhat fragmented and regionally varied one. IIRC a good percentage of Roman roads in Britain were actually built on existing roadways. Yes they improved and repaired the roads but they didn't have to forge new routes or anything. Heck in some cases, particularly on the floating/bog roads they just used them as they were.

Also the amount of Roman-controlled land in Britain wasn't very big. Not compared to the East.

[Fordorsia]

TIL all of England and Wales isn't all that much even though that's more than half of the British Isles

[Dostanuot Loj]

Puz, G11 question.

If Canada had wanted to buy G11 (And had money lol), what could HK have done to make it more likely to sell if it wanted/could sell?

Considering for a puppet.

Probs just gonna go with SA80, but wanted to ask.

[Schwere Panzer Abteilung 502]

TIL all of England and Wales isn't all that much even though that's more than half of the British Isles

I guess if you cut off most of the Arabian plateau and extend the Eastern part to the border of China, this covers most of the land Alexander conquered overlaid against N America.
Compared to this.
Your country really isn't that big.

[Fordorsia]

TIL all of England and Wales isn't all that much even though that's more than half of the British Isles

I guess if you cut off most of the Arabian plateau and extend the Eastern part to the border of China, this covers most of the land Alexander conquered overlaid against N America.
Compared to this.
Your country really isn't that big.

I didn't know all the Romans conquered was England and Wales, and that the UK is a country. I'm learning so much today.

[Husseinarti]

If only the romans had B-29s. That would have shown those unwashed barbarians.

the b-29 is great at putting uncivilized savages in their place

[Husseinarti]

You realise that that Gail and the British Isles already a pretty decent road network able to a somewhat fragmented and regionally varied one. IIRC a good percentage of Roman roads in Britain were actually built on existing roadways. Yes they improved and repaired the roads but they didn't have to forge new routes or anything. Heck in some cases, particularly on the floating/bog roads they just used them as they were.

Also the amount of Roman-controlled land in Britain wasn't very big. Not compared to the East.

[Schwere Panzer Abteilung 502]

Also the amount of Roman-controlled land in Britain wasn't very big. Not compared to the East.

Keywords: In Britain. Never said the amount of Roman-controlled land wasn't big. I don't know the exact square kilometerage, but I'd wager good money that Alexander conquered a roughly equal amount of land the Romans did.

[Fordorsia]

You're comparing a large island with an entire continent. Of course it's small in comparison. What exactly are you trying to prove, that the Romans were worse than the Macedonians simply because they didn't take the entirety of the British Isles? I really have no idea what your point is.