Infantry Discussion Thread 10: Shovel Edition [NO FWORDS]

[Rhodesialund]

USA has never seriously leveraged its private industry for war production outside of WW2. The USSR and PRC leveraged their industries for war production for 50 years.

Well, it's easy to leverage your industries with a state capitalist system like the USSR and PRC. It's kinda hard to do that when you are dealing with an "laissez-faire" mentality present in those who believe in such things despite being hypocritical in that department too.

[Alimeria-]

Shortened it a tad bit. More S&W No 3 size now, still large just not as large

[Gallia-]

USA has never seriously leveraged its private industry for war production outside of WW2. The USSR and PRC leveraged their industries for war production for 50 years.

Well, it's easy to leverage your industries with a state capitalist system like the USSR and PRC. It's kinda hard to do that when you are dealing with an "laissez-faire" mentality present in those who believe in such things despite being hypocritical in that department too.

Yeah it's almost like free markets are detrimental to national survival or something.

Chinese state capitalism is great. It sucks in foreign direct investment and technology and advances itself without needing to do all the requisite hard work until it's caught up to all its competitors.

The Zil Lane to technological superiority.

[Rhodesialund]

Yeah it's almost like free markets are detrimental to national survival or something.

Truly free markets, yeah.

Chinese state capitalism is great. It sucks in foreign direct investment and technology and advances itself without needing to do all the requisite hard work until it's caught up to all its competitors.

The Zil Lane to technological superiority.

It works because it's populace is nothing more than fodder that's poorly paid. You keep the populace down on the ground and in the factories, you can control where the market goes. However, it requires a heavy hand when the workers start pulling the Marxist shit all over again. Which the Chinese have done before. They see a possible rebellion, they put it down fucking hard and send the perps to any laogai camps they feel like.

[Gallia-]

>Poorly paid
>Alternative is subsistence farming

It works because the Chinese have a huge population of poor people who are flocking to factories. They can outproduce the rest of the world combined given a couple more decades.

The real difference is that capitalism is nothing more than a tool for the state to perpetuate itself, rather than the other way around, which is why USA is losing and PRC is winning.

[Rhodesialund]

>Poorly paid
>Alternative is subsistence farming

It works because the Chinese have a huge population of poor people who are flocking to factories. They can outproduce the rest of the world combined given a couple more decades.

And people online bitch about corpocracies yet praise China and the Soviet Union's "socialism".

[Gallia-]

You already can't comprehend that the USSR and PRC outproduced the USA in war materiel.

It's no wonder you have trouble grasping that industrialization is better than dirt farming.

What's next? You'll claim that water is actually blue or something?

[Alimeria-]

Socialism breaks the back of the innovative spirit. A socialist state may be able to churn out tons of the same shady-quality products upon the backs of the children working in their sweatshops, but the capitalist state fosters the mind of the innovative and cranks superior more advanced technology by the time the socialist country has time to steal the product.

[Gallia-]

Socialism breaks the back of the innovative spirit. A socialist state may be able to churn out tons of the same shady-quality products upon the backs of the children working in their sweatshops, but the capitalist state fosters the mind of the innovative and cranks superior more advanced technology by the time the socialist country has time to steal the product.

What a stupid non-argument.

http://breakingdefense.com/2012/12/the- ... echnology/

"Innovative spirit" sounds about as much a crock of shit as "sole inventor" and "aetheric theory", though. Small wonder, considering it's simply a matter of the USA imports too much and exports too little. Instead of innovating, it rides on the innovation of others who have embraced the technological progressive sector of manufacturing. I wonder who has the initiative in that regard? The people who actually make the things, or the people who never see the factories that make what they think of?

[Arkandros]

You already can't comprehend that the USSR and PRC outproduced the USA in war materiel.

It's no wonder you have trouble grasping that industrialization is better than dirt farming.

What's next? You'll claim that water is actually blue or something?

I won't try and discredit your production statement, but I do think it's relevant that the US has had a much smaller population (and therefore much smaller military) than either the PRC or the USSR. If the US produced 30+ million M16s like the soviets did mosins, it's just wasting money. That's likely double what the US would ever possibly use, even if there is a WW3.

[Gallia-]

You already can't comprehend that the USSR and PRC outproduced the USA in war materiel.

It's no wonder you have trouble grasping that industrialization is better than dirt farming.

What's next? You'll claim that water is actually blue or something?

I won't try and discredit your production statement, but I do think it's relevant that the US has had a much smaller population (and therefore much smaller military) than either the PRC or the USSR. If the US produced 30+ million M16s like the soviets did mosins, it's just wasting money. That's likely double what the US would ever possibly use, even if there is a WW3.

e: Oh wait they were the same size.

But NATO was like double the USSR at least.

USSR was just super spergtastic though. That is undeniably true.

[Puzikas]

The s p e r g i e s t

[Gallia-]

s p e g l y
p
e
g
l
y

[Rhodesialund]

You already can't comprehend that the USSR and PRC outproduced the USA in war materiel.

It's no wonder you have trouble grasping that industrialization is better than dirt farming.

What's next? You'll claim that water is actually blue or something?

Where did I say that the USSR and PRC were outproduced by the USA in war material? Be helpful if you weren't so delusional.

[Gallia-]

viewtopic.php?p=31876022#p31876022

[Rhodesialund]

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=31876022#p31876022

Because the USSR and PRC have both made more guns than the USA.

made more guns

more guns

I have not said that the US made more fighters, tanks, ATGMs, APCs, Artillery pieces, ADVs, etc etc. The war materials.

[Gallia-]

You said they made more guns.

Maybe they did in a literal sense, like how South Korea makes more cars than the USA, but not for military use, which the USA has a monopoly on for its armed forces and which was the point.

[Rhodesialund]

You said they made more guns.

Maybe they did in a literal sense, like how South Korea makes more cars than the USA, but not for military use, which the USA has a monopoly on for its armed forces and which was the point.

I'm not disagreeing that the USSR and PRC made more war materials than the USA, same as how South Korea makes more cars than the USA. I tend to see things from a very generalistic point of view when it comes to manufacturing stuff. I don't see niches unless specified, "for military and governmental/political purposes."

Who made the most fighter jets, USSR.
Who made the most tanks, USSR.
Who made the most firearms for military and government purposes, like you said the USSR and PRC.

[Gallia-]

The point of the conversation was firearms for military/government use.

If you'd actually been following it you would have known that, though.

[Rhodesialund]

The point of the conversation was firearms for military/government use.

If you'd actually been following it you would have known that, though.

Bleh, I always miss the subtle shit.

[Gallia-]

It wasn't even subtle.

[Puzikas]

With the caveat that I'm referring to state use and international sales, not domestic civilian consumption.

[Dayganistan]

Why does Russia issue the RPG-7 at the squad level while comparable weapons in western armies such as the Carl Gustav and SMAW are usually issued at the platoon level or higher?

[Rhodesialund]

Latex BDSM Gimp suits with the appropriate respirators and filters. How effective do you think it is in CBRN environments?


I dunno why, just something really weird I thought of.

[Alimeria-]

And civilian carry version of the revolver. Chambered in 12.6x45mm