Infantry Discussion Thread 10: Shovel Edition [NO FWORDS]

[The Technocratic Syndicalists]

Three words

High Impulse Weapon

Which one? The 76mm one the smaller version that fires 40x53mm HV? The latter one seems like it could actually be useful although its probably too big to use as an UBL.

[Laritaia]

the former obv

[The Technocratic Syndicalists]

Sure, as long as it's renamed the "shoulder dislocation device".

[Gallia-]

Do you use solely brittle boned pygmies for soldiers?

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

kat how do you focus enough to make a whole wiki page for your nation

i can hardly bring myself to do a paragraph on the environment

[Puzikas]

25mm wasn't chosen in a fit of stupidity. A (relatively) flat trajectory and a precision time fuze is the best solution for the desired explode-behind-and-above-cover capability.

Air bursting 40mm grenades or whatever are nice but they aren't a revolutionary improvement. The VOG-25P has in fact been around for a long time, but as I wager Puzikas can confirm, it isn't even sort of close to being an OICW or XM25 like weapon. It is simply a fact that low velocity airbursting grenades have seen only modest interest from armed forces despite being pushed by pretty much every major maker of grenade launchers. It simply isn't realistic to expect an average infantryman in combat to angle their rifle accurately enough at a high angle to drop a grenade on a foxhole or any comparable form of cover consistently; if they could they wouldn't need these fancy air burst grenades in the first place. A low velocity grenade would require some kind of range-correcting device on the grenade to really match the performance of ~25mm weapons, which would be a huge increase in cost and complexity compared to the XM25 type programmable fuze.

Wait what am I confirming that it's hard to calculate your grenades drop on the fly or that the vog-25 has been around for about forever (in infantry terms)?

Because yes to both
But the GP series grenade sights are good assuming your target is, you know, at a known distance.
100m on the firing range looks a lot different than 100m in Makhachkala.

[Gallia-]

kat how do you focus enough to make a whole wiki page for your nation

i can hardly bring myself to do a paragraph on the environment

i didnt write it all in one sitting or anything

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

i understand that

[Puzikas]

[laughs in depression]

I will miss all those pictures though :|

Oh yeah and we're fundamentally missing the point of infantry combat

The 25mm and 40mm aspects of WARFITE are not the primary casually producer of the squad ATM. The real goal is to suppress the enemy, so those 25/40mm launchers can be brought to bare and THEN produce casualties. If you take away a squads ability to suppress by adding in another casualty producer like the XM-25 or something, you reduce the squads ability to produce a situation to produce these casualties.

In infantry combat, the engaging units want to either kill one another fast enough that suppression is not necessary, or suppress the enemy long enough that more casualty producing or more effective weapons can be brought to bare. The IFVs gun, or the company/battalion mortar, or the artillery, or the squads own grenade projectors. Or more infantry to engage in close contact.

As was noted 40mm LV grenades have the aerodynamic efficiency of a 8 month old. It's difficult to hit a target beyond 100m with a standard grenade projector usually, unless it's an area target like a house. By removing a rifle or machine gun for a grenade launcher, what you have done is not increase the squads potential to produce casualties per se, but you have reduced their ability to suppress at distance. While it's true grenades can be used to suppress, they are neither as plentiful nor as effective at keeping the enemy pinned in one spot as bullets.

This is why the rocket projector is advantagous when slinging HE/HEDP, as it can engage the enemy in hard cover and produce casualties at a range near equal to or in excess of the squads rifle fire, while remaining under the squads close protection and suppressive ability without having to manuver close.

RAW had it rite bc spheres are the answer.

[Gallia-]

Galla's Gallic fetish for rifle grenades means it uses RAW unironically. ):

[Puzikas]

scorpion urban fighting weapon for everyone

[Gallia-]

[Tekeristan]

I believe that's the premise with my current squad set up..
Two machine guns with two grenade launchers.
The former suppresses and the latter lob grenades. Preferably together.

[Puzikas]

(Image)

Galla I love you

[Gallia-]

i decided that i probably dont need to have a big v-22 to carry hmmwvs exclusively and v-22 is fine for the medium tiltrotor role

big v-22 will still exist for internal transport of M119s and HMMWV Prime Mover + gun crews, but that's about it

instead this will be normal V-22's FAV:



put a .50 on a haflinger

try not to tip over as you careen around corners at BLISTERING SPEED blatting fools

hold onto the spade for dear life because you only have a carabiner to keep you from falling off and being left behind in the slow wars of the future

may also move 120mm mortars like Growler ITV idk yet if it will just be a ludicrous gun truck or do other things

hmmwv might still pack mortars and howitzers and will obviously carry the LOSAT but this guy can carry TOWs

im not sur eif they will mix 105mm howtizers and 81mm mortars or just go with 120mm mortars all around or mix all three yet

but if they have 81mm mortars they will have 2B9s in 81mm 'Murican on HMMWVs

[Halfblakistan]

i decided that i probably dont need to have a big v-22 to carry hmmwvs exclusively and v-22 is fine for the medium tiltrotor role

big v-22 will still exist for internal transport of M119s and HMMWV Prime Mover + gun crews, but that's about it

instead this will be normal V-22's FAV:

(Image)

put a .50 on a haflinger

try not to tip over as you careen around corners at BLISTERING SPEED blatting fools

hold onto the spade for dear life because you only have a carabiner to keep you from falling off and being left behind in the slow wars of the future

may also move 120mm mortars like Growler ITV idk yet if it will just be a ludicrous gun truck or do other things

hmmwv might still pack mortars and howitzers and will obviously carry the LOSAT but this guy can carry TOWs

im not sur eif they will mix 105mm howtizers and 81mm mortars or just go with 120mm mortars all around or mix all three yet

but if they have 81mm mortars they will have 2B9s in 81mm 'Murican on HMMWVs

Halflingers could work well in my Army... get few of those going with 7.62s and you're ready to kill some rebuhhls.

[Rhodesialund]

(Image)

[Rhodesialund]

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/heres-why-us-special-forces-want-russian-machine-guns-20642

Just sharing this link. Might actually prompt manufacturers to start selling semi-auto PKMs here. I'd deffo pick that up if I could.

[Puzikas]

>us gun makers
>Making anything but shitty pistols, shitty hunting rifles in garbage calibers or another fucking AR-15

Good one.

E: Plus the change in going from an open bolt PK to a closed bolt PK is pretty substantial. Usually companies that have done something like this in the past have been huge industrial concerns or large companies who make stuff already and can afford to fill the need, usually for massive cost.
So someone like General Dynamics might fill the void, make 600 PKs for $30000 each, then close the line and put the machines in stowage and just wait for the SF to say they need more, hire some people back, make them, then close the line again.

I mean I WISH I could get a semiautomatic PK, but outside of the few hundred that were rebuilds from Polish and Hungarian parts kits, it's not happening.

[Rhodesialund]

>us gun makers
>Making anything but shitty pistols, shitty hunting rifles in garbage calibers or another fucking AR-15

Good one.

STOP RUINING MY MASTURBATORY FANTASY!

[Theodosiya]

Will there be OTAN variant?(x51mm and x99mm)

[Laritaia]

Will there be OTAN variant?(x51mm and x99mm)

that would defeat the point

[Purpelia]

Just what is their goal here? Parts commonality can't be a thing because there is no way they are going to reverse engineer something that precisely to actually accept original parts without the whole process costing so much it's stupid. And if it's ammo commonality why not just build american weapons chambered for Russian ammo? It's not like there aren't M16's in 7.62x39 and similar stuff out there. I am sure they could kludge up an M60 in 7.62R.

[Laritaia]

Just what is their goal here? Parts commonality can't be a thing because there is no way they are going to reverse engineer something that precisely to actually accept original parts without the whole process costing so much it's stupid. And if it's ammo commonality why not just build american weapons chambered for Russian ammo? It's not like there aren't M16's in 7.62x39 and similar stuff out there. I am sure they could kludge up an M60 in 7.62R.

the objective is to build weapons that in function, manual of arms, ammo supply, and maintenance replicate russian weapons

[Purpelia]

Newer really thought about handling. Makes sense than. Still, can the Russians actually sue over this?