Infantry Discussion Thread 10: Shovel Edition [NO FWORDS]

[Purpelia]

How would the various light AT guns of WW2 (I am specifically talking of stuff in the 37-47mm range) do in the role of direct fire field artillery? And was this done to any great effect during the war?

[Caneja]

What methods could be used in order to spread biological weapons to hostile lands?

Lots of methods, any weapon with an explosive warhead can have it switched out for a warhead they distributes chemical or biological weapons. This is less efficient because generally there aren't that many people in the effected area and you would be better of using anow explosive warhead to kill those people.

Agents could use handheld dispersing devices, or leave automated devices, but that leaves them exposed and is rather hard to implement.

Would it be possible to use a high-altitude dispersing aircraft, releasing the agent into the air?

Or would it be more appropriate to use a low-altitude one?

[Purpelia]

Lots of methods, any weapon with an explosive warhead can have it switched out for a warhead they distributes chemical or biological weapons. This is less efficient because generally there aren't that many people in the effected area and you would be better of using anow explosive warhead to kill those people.

Agents could use handheld dispersing devices, or leave automated devices, but that leaves them exposed and is rather hard to implement.

Would it be possible to use a high-altitude dispersing aircraft, releasing the agent into the air?

Or would it be more appropriate to use a low-altitude one?

That depends. Do you want the agent to scatter harmlessly across the four winds or do you want your aircraft shot down by ground fire?

[Spirit of Hope]

Lots of methods, any weapon with an explosive warhead can have it switched out for a warhead they distributes chemical or biological weapons. This is less efficient because generally there aren't that many people in the effected area and you would be better of using anow explosive warhead to kill those people.

Agents could use handheld dispersing devices, or leave automated devices, but that leaves them exposed and is rather hard to implement.

Would it be possible to use a high-altitude dispersing aircraft, releasing the agent into the air?

Or would it be more appropriate to use a low-altitude one?

I'm not an expert on biological warfare, but both should work depending on the specifics of the German being dispersed. Neither is exactly stealthy or protected though.

[Novorden]

Would it be possible to use a high-altitude dispersing aircraft, releasing the agent into the air?

Or would it be more appropriate to use a low-altitude one?

I'm not an expert on biological warfare, but both should work depending on the specifics of the German being dispersed. Neither is exactly stealthy or protected though.

"the German being dispersed"
NO! HANS!

[Crookfur]

Would it be possible to use a high-altitude dispersing aircraft, releasing the agent into the air?

Or would it be more appropriate to use a low-altitude one?

I'm not an expert on biological warfare, but both should work depending on the specifics of the German being dispersed. Neither is exactly stealthy or protected though.

Damned Krauts dropping out the sky and detroying all our cabbages!

But honestly when it comes to any kind of chemical or biological spraying, 300-400ft is considered high altitude. A few emergency dumps of defoiliantswere carried out at altitudes in the thousands of feet during vietnam and IIRC they weren't able to determine where the agents actually spread to and what if any direct effect they had.


Actual high altitude stuff is very much in the chemtrail "I want to beleive" catagory of nonsense

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

How would the various light AT guns of WW2 (I am specifically talking of stuff in the 37-47mm range) do in the role of direct fire field artillery? And was this done to any great effect during the war?

AFAIK AT munitions whether HEAT or KEP (these being the main types of contemporary AT rounds) are, well, obviously, not optimized for arty use if by arty you mean HE/F effects. KEPs especially would be extremely bad at this. Also, IDK if HEAT works when fired at anything or it requires hard armor to bang onto in order to make its explosive effects happen.

With that being said, IDK if WW2 AT technology was HEAT or something else (though I would suspect so).

In any case as you can see I am not generally very well knowledgeable regarding this subject buy hey just my 2 cents.

[Purpelia]

How would the various light AT guns of WW2 (I am specifically talking of stuff in the 37-47mm range) do in the role of direct fire field artillery? And was this done to any great effect during the war?

AFAIK AT munitions whether HEAT or KEP (these being the main types of contemporary AT rounds) are, well, obviously, not optimized for arty use if by arty you mean HE/F effects. KEPs especially would be extremely bad at this. Also, IDK if HEAT works when fired at anything or it requires hard armor to bang onto in order to make its explosive effects happen.

With that being said, IDK if WW2 AT technology was HEAT or something else (though I would suspect so).

In any case as you can see I am not generally very well knowledgeable regarding this subject buy hey just my 2 cents.

HEAT only came way later. And the various AT guns, especially the Soviet ones had proper HE and even canister shells issued. I just can't find any real accounts of them in action. Primarily because I am frankly too cheap to go look in a library or god forbid actually buy a book. So all my information is 100% online.

[Spirit of Hope]

I'm not an expert on biological warfare, but both should work depending on the specifics of the German being dispersed. Neither is exactly stealthy or protected though.

"the German being dispersed"
NO! HANS!

Germans are a form of germ. You can even dispersing them at high altitudes, though I hear they complain if not given a parachute.

I'm not an expert on biological warfare, but both should work depending on the specifics of the German being dispersed. Neither is exactly stealthy or protected though.

Damned Krauts dropping out the sky and detroying all our cabbages!

But honestly when it comes to any kind of chemical or biological spraying, 300-400ft is considered high altitude. A few emergency dumps of defoiliantswere carried out at altitudes in the thousands of feet during vietnam and IIRC they weren't able to determine where the agents actually spread to and what if any direct effect they had.


Actual high altitude stuff is very much in the chemtrail "I want to beleive" catagory of nonsense

If the agent can survive making it to the ground I see no reason a high altitude dispersion isn't possible with biological agents. But yeah you are going to have no clue where it is going and it is going to be to diluted to be likely to have any effect.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

AFAIK AT munitions whether HEAT or KEP (these being the main types of contemporary AT rounds) are, well, obviously, not optimized for arty use if by arty you mean HE/F effects. KEPs especially would be extremely bad at this. Also, IDK if HEAT works when fired at anything or it requires hard armor to bang onto in order to make its explosive effects happen.

With that being said, IDK if WW2 AT technology was HEAT or something else (though I would suspect so).

In any case as you can see I am not generally very well knowledgeable regarding this subject buy hey just my 2 cents.

HEAT only came way later. And the various AT guns, especially the Soviet ones had proper HE and even canister shells issued. I just can't find any real accounts of them in action. Primarily because I am frankly too cheap to go look in a library or god forbid actually buy a book. So all my information is 100% online.

Oh, for some reason I interpreted your post as "using those at guns with at ammunition".

I personally don't see any reason it shouldn't work decently with HE rounds other than perhaps being somewhat ineffective/inefficient in comparison to larger caliber, "dedicated" arty guns.

[Puzikas]

The ideal combat sights are apparently a Kalashnikov style sight with a sight rib. There's a study I used to have but no longer do, if Aquiz (rip gone but not forgotten) was around he would.

Comes from the United States military's ACR program in the 1980s.

I usually quote the ACR study myself but one in the 70s concluded the same thing.

Neither for general issue.
Magnification>superimposition outside of CQC

I have been wanting an Elcan SpecterDR 1-4x something fierce for my SBR for a while now since it's effectively both without the wasted in-between of a variable optic.

Lasers are dumb
Inb4spree.

I've had some arguments made for the uses of a laser. The best part is that none of these arguments have anything to do with aiming, short of IR designators being used with NODs. This is because visible lasers are full-retard for aiming purposes.
[/quote]
I meant more for superimposition vs magnification
Mostly because of search-scan-engage vs target-engage

What methods could be used in order to spread biological weapons to hostile lands?

Aerosol
Person
animals
foodstuffs
liquid

[Rhodesialund]

I have been wanting an Elcan SpecterDR 1-4x something fierce for my SBR for a while now since it's effectively both without the wasted in-between of a variable optic.

Elcans are great, but good lord are they pricey. Worth the money, fo' sho'.

Did you take a look at Valdada's QR-TS 3x25 scope? Kinda of an off-brand but they do put out some hardcore stuff. Been looking at the 4x24 M1/M2 because of that Combloc look.

[Spreewerke]

I have been wanting an Elcan SpecterDR 1-4x something fierce for my SBR for a while now since it's effectively both without the wasted in-between of a variable optic.

Elcans are great, but good lord are they pricey. Worth the money, fo' sho'.

Did you take a look at Valdada's QR-TS 3x25 scope? Kinda of an off-brand but they do put out some hardcore stuff. Been looking at the 4x24 M1/M2 because of that Combloc look.

No, because I need something capable of 1x.

[Rhodesialund]

Elcans are great, but good lord are they pricey. Worth the money, fo' sho'.

Did you take a look at Valdada's QR-TS 3x25 scope? Kinda of an off-brand but they do put out some hardcore stuff. Been looking at the 4x24 M1/M2 because of that Combloc look.

No, because I need something capable of 1x.

Use 45* offset irons or red dot. That's plenty of 1x that you could use.
(Joking)

[Christeria]

How would the various light AT guns of WW2 (I am specifically talking of stuff in the 37-47mm range) do in the role of direct fire field artillery? And was this done to any great effect during the war?

They did pretty well. American 37 mm Gun M3s used their H.E. and canister shells with great success against infantry and MG nests. Its APBC rounds could potentially be useful against light fortifications. However, I have not read anything about it being used in this way. The Char B1's SA 34 (or 35?) 47 mm guns were successfully used against German pillboxes during the Siege of La Rochelle. Also the Pateaux SA 1918 37 mm guns of the Renault FTs were used to demolish buildings during the Riff War. Granted its not an AT gun. But the amount of H.E. it holds should be less than that used in a 45 or 47 mm H.E. shell from an AT gun.

[Husseinarti]

How would the various light AT guns of WW2 (I am specifically talking of stuff in the 37-47mm range) do in the role of direct fire field artillery? And was this done to any great effect during the war?

They were okay.

[Purpelia]

Thanks for the info. This sounds very promising indeed for my idea.

Basically, I am dreaming up my WW2 era military. Well, early WW2 like 30's and up until 1940 when shit really gets going. And in that period I am dead set on what you might call a medium force. And a large part of that force would be the abandonment of heavy 78mm and 63mm field guns which had proven too immobile during WW1 in favor of a single unified dual purpose field/AT gun chambered in 40mm Bofors.

Right now, what I am thinking off is essentially having each infantry battalion having a combined artillery company. This company would consist of two batteries of these DP guns, 3-4 in each and a heavy machine gun battery using 2cm machine guns. That than goes on top of the MG's issued out to infantry companies.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

How would the various light AT guns of WW2 (I am specifically talking of stuff in the 37-47mm range) do in the role of direct fire field artillery? And was this done to any great effect during the war?

They were okay.

The 2 and 6-pdrs of the British Army were notoriously shit at chucking HE though. <.<

[Purpelia]

They were okay.

The 2 and 6-pdrs of the British Army were notoriously shit at chucking HE though. <.<

Wasn't that because they literally had no HE shells issued?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

The 2 and 6-pdrs of the British Army were notoriously shit at chucking HE though. <.<

Wasn't that because they literally had no HE shells issued?

They had, or at least the 6-pdr had. It was shit so nobody bothered to use them.

[Purpelia]

Either way I'd be using 40mm Bofors and therefore my HE should be quite good as far as 40mm HE goes. I was just worried about how far 40mm HE went. And it seems to do Ok-ish.

Basically the idea here is to abandon everything between light guns (40mm) and heavy pieces (120mm+ regimental artillery). So no 75mm equivalents in my army anywhere except on tanks and assault guns. I actually have a proto-regiment planned out as well if anyone wants to see.

This said, I really want to squeeze a sort of LIG in there. But I don't know where and how yet.

[Husseinarti]

Either way I'd be using 40mm Bofors and therefore my HE should be quite good as far as 40mm HE goes. I was just worried about how far 40mm HE went. And it seems to do Ok-ish.

Basically the idea here is to abandon everything between light guns (40mm) and heavy pieces (120mm+ regimental artillery). So no 75mm equivalents in my army anywhere except on tanks and assault guns. I actually have a proto-regiment planned out as well if anyone wants to see.

This said, I really want to squeeze a sort of LIG in there. But I don't know where and how yet.

I mean 75mm field guns are kind of useful and were used by everyone but yeah just git rid of an entire area of capability I bet it'll be fine.

[Prosorusiya]

What about a flashlight that powers on when you press lightly on the trigger to illuminate the target and make him know you are serious whilst you debate shooting? (Actual thing. O_o)

You mean the "I'm here shoot me!" device?

Literally my first thought. Might as well shoot blackpowder, at least that gives you a smokescreen to escape under after you give away your position.

Some IR sight do have a light though...

Type 38 carbine or Berdan M1870 Shotgun conversion for Honor\Prison Guard use?

[Sediczja]

Either way I'd be using 40mm Bofors and therefore my HE should be quite good as far as 40mm HE goes. I was just worried about how far 40mm HE went. And it seems to do Ok-ish.

Basically the idea here is to abandon everything between light guns (40mm) and heavy pieces (120mm+ regimental artillery). So no 75mm equivalents in my army anywhere except on tanks and assault guns. I actually have a proto-regiment planned out as well if anyone wants to see.

This said, I really want to squeeze a sort of LIG in there. But I don't know where and how yet.

This is a bit like saying "I want to abandon everything between handguns and machine guns thus no rifles".

~75mm guns definitely had a very real role, and omitting them would be quite self-defeating.

[EsToVnIa]

You mean the "I'm here shoot me!" device?

Literally my first thought. Might as well shoot blackpowder, at least that gives you a smokescreen to escape under after you give away your position.

Some IR sight do have a light though...

Type 38 carbine or Berdan M1870 Shotgun conversion for Honor\Prison Guard use?

BF3 and BF4 taught me that flashlights are 3op5me when engaging in <20 m engagements