Infantry Discussion Thread 10: Shovel Edition [NO FWORDS]

[Eisarn-Ara]

Bit more WIP - with or without grip?

Also some kind of tandem warhead because why not.

with Grip.

[Assorted Sucrose-Based Lifeforms]

Loving the introduction of the opening post, btdubsie

[Schwere Panzer Abteilung 502]

Why is it the javelin fell out of favor in the high Middle Ages and beyond?

[Fordorsia]

Why is it the javelin fell out of favor in the high Middle Ages and beyond?

Ranged soldiers became more organized bodies, instead of the very loose semi-disorganised skirmishers they used to be, so it's not ideal to use javelins when everyone is in fairly close proximity and when you can only have a very limited number of javelins. Better to have a more compact weapon which you can use in a tight-ish space, have more ammo for, and use at longer range which suits being in a pitched battle much better.

Also crossbows were way easier to use, and were more effective, especially when mail-gambesons combos were standard.

[Schwere Panzer Abteilung 502]

Filthy medieval barbarians lost knowledge of the pilum, throwing strap, etc.

[Fordorsia]

Heavy crossbow > shitty primitive javelin

[Theodosiya]

After reading infantry guide, i need advises regarding types of infantry I used. So, I plan to have 3 Paratrooper Airborne Inf Division, One Mechanized and the rest light and 4 Air Assault Division.. Then, at least 6 Mechanized Infantry Division(2 in Wheeled IFV, 4 in tracked IFV). The "regulars" would be motorized in APC and softskins. There is only one Marine Division and 4 Independent Brigade. Then,4 Ranger-like Infantry regiment. Is is feasible, or there are many things need to be revised? And assault infantry lives in battalion and brigade level.

[Gallia-]

Is there any historical precedent IRL for abolishing drill training?

The only springing to mind is WW2 USMC and maybe end-of-war Germany?

I guess I should re-read Simpkin to see if simpkin_talks_about_this.

And now the USMC sells itself with a drill team. How the turntables-

TBF they skipped combat training, which is Viky's major difference.

WW2 USMC was probably mostly just running around jungle gyms with combat gear and hoisting logs before being sent to a unit for OJT in how do assault.

#justww2things

[Minroz]

Hello everyone. Chu Ko Nu~

Well, it definitely makes senses that I used them in my ancient armies of Minroz, being a Fantasy Chinese nation.

[Fordorsia]

Draw weight>Fire rate

You can fire as many bolts as you want but it won't matter when those bolts won't really do much on impact.

[Gallia-]

you can fire as many crossbow bolts as you want but you arent getting through a meter of detroit steel and rubber

[Azurg]

I can't be arsed to do up a proper post. Take old shpesh gat instead

[Kazarogkai]

Draw weight>Fire rate

You can fire as many bolts as you want but it won't matter when those bolts won't really do much on impact.

Depends on the circumstances, in europe it would not really be all that effective but in places where the majority of ones opponents wear light armour and are particularly mobile(africa, large parts of asia) then it comes into it's own quite nicely. Heavy steel plate armour covering one from toe to head like seen in knights wasn't really common outside specific regions(India, Japan, Europe) and even in those regions it was usually confined to a small subset of the population. Chu ko ni was capable of piercing the armour(Lamellar, scale, mirror plates, chain) of most of the opponents he would have faced. Also there is a reason they were tipped in poison. Doesn't matter if it doesn't have a lot of "stopping power" if you will, the poison will kill you anyways.

Fire Rate < Power wasn't an uncommon position to have in parts of the world.

[Fordorsia]

Depends on the circumstances, in europe it would not really be all that effective but in places where the majority of ones opponents wear light armour and are particularly mobile(africa, large parts of asia) then it comes into it's own quite nicely.

Asian peasants had the same access to padded armour and mail as Europeans, European armies were just as mobile as any other.

Heavy steel plate armour covering one from toe to head like seen in knights wasn't really common outside specific regions(India, Japan, Europe) and even in those regions it was usually confined to a small subset of the population.

Pretty much every civilization on the same level as Europe had heavily armoured nobility and professionals who were just as armoured and well trained as European knights and men-at-arms, and who made up a tiny percentage of the population and of an army.

Chu ko ni was capable of piercing the armour(Lamellar, scale, mirror plates, chain) of most of the opponents he would have faced. Also there is a reason they were tipped in poison. Doesn't matter if it doesn't have a lot of "stopping power" if you will, the poison will kill you anyways.

People also wore heavy padding along with whatever hard armour they had, which shits on weak crossbows. It would be more effective psychologically rather than damagally.

[Schwere Panzer Abteilung 502]

Draw weight>Fire rate

You can fire as many bolts as you want but it won't matter when those bolts won't really do much on impact.

Not necessarily - sometimes its better to use your skirmishers just to tie down the enemy. They're unlikely to defeat formations of heavy infantry on their own, so instead it might be better to harry the enemy with skirmishers by volume of fire, in the hopes that with so many projectiles coming at them, at least a few will cause casualties. And as long as ammunition holds out it will be hard for the enemy to do anything.

[Puzikas]

(Image)

one last post

I have wanted a proper context to post this for weeks.

you can fire as many crossbow bolts as you want but you arent getting through a meter of detroit steel and rubber

(Image)

APFSDS Cross bow soon

Draw weight>Fire rate

t. US Army Board of Small Arms c. 1238

[Balkenreich]

Puz.

AK question time.

Whats the differance between the 100s series and the classics?

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

plastic

[Gallia-]

APFSDS Cross bow soon

they already are

ripppppppppppp

hypervelocity atlatl when

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

you dont need hypervelocity when you have the jaguar spirit for realsies

[Purpelia]

Why not just mount the thing on top of your IFV? All problems solved.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

No purp

were not doing tank bayonets again

[Purpelia]

No purp

were not doing tank bayonets again

But if we were, a hypervelocity AT missile would be a great way to implement one.

[The Akasha Colony]

After reading infantry guide, i need advises regarding types of infantry I used. So, I plan to have 3 Paratrooper Airborne Inf Division, One Mechanized and the rest light and 4 Air Assault Division.. Then, at least 6 Mechanized Infantry Division(2 in Wheeled IFV, 4 in tracked IFV). The "regulars" would be motorized in APC and softskins. There is only one Marine Division and 4 Independent Brigade. Then,4 Ranger-like Infantry regiment. Is is feasible, or there are many things need to be revised? And assault infantry lives in battalion and brigade level.

I'm not sure why you would need three paratrooper and four air assault divisions. That means you have more air assault units than mechanized infantry units. Even the entire United States Army has only one of each, and three paratrooper divisions was more than the US ever deployed in WWII.

Not sure why the "regulars" get softskin vehicles, either. They should get the best equipment, so IFVs and such.

[Gallia-]

maybe he just has a terrible army like india or indonesia or malaysia?