Infantry Discussion Thread 10: Shovel Edition [NO FWORDS]

[Dostanuot Loj]

I reckon' I could give you an answer, but that answer'd get me banned; but what I will leave you is this remark. "Oy Vey Goyim, it's a shoah!" hopefully it's vague enough to get the point across.

What language is that?

He is implying it's because of Jews. It's terribly racist.

It's also terribly dumb since WW1 was not WW2. And since, you know, 100,000 or more German Jews served in WW1.

[Athrax]

If there are so many Germans in america how the hell did the country join the wrong side in two world wars? Genuine question here. At the very least I would have expected everyone with a German sounding name to be against the wars.

* Wrong as in "against germany". Just to make that clear. Not a moral judgment but a practical one.

Because there were much stronger economic, cultural, and political ties linking the US to Britain, especially when Germany goes about sinking tons of your shipping or sides with your main rival in the Pacific and declares war on you when you are attacked.

[Puzikas]

The stupid really does start early

[Purpelia]

If there are so many Germans in america how the hell did the country join the wrong side in two world wars? Genuine question here. At the very least I would have expected everyone with a German sounding name to be against the wars.

* Wrong as in "against germany". Just to make that clear. Not a moral judgment but a practical one.

Because there were much stronger economic, cultural, and political ties linking the US to Britain, especially when Germany goes about sinking tons of your shipping or sides with your main rival in the Pacific and declares war on you when you are attacked.

Still like the prospect of betraying the homeland and potentially even family members still there should have trumped everything. I mean, this is literally the era of nationalism we are talking about.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

yes but you see

uboats

Germany has a history of asking for it

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

Because there were much stronger economic, cultural, and political ties linking the US to Britain, especially when Germany goes about sinking tons of your shipping or sides with your main rival in the Pacific and declares war on you when you are attacked.

Still like the prospect of betraying the homeland and potentially even family members still there should have trumped everything. I mean, this is literally the era of nationalism we are talking about.

The common boxhead is programmed to obey any seemingly legitimate authority regardless of the content of its instructions.

[Athrax]

Because there were much stronger economic, cultural, and political ties linking the US to Britain, especially when Germany goes about sinking tons of your shipping or sides with your main rival in the Pacific and declares war on you when you are attacked.

Still like the prospect of betraying the homeland and potentially even family members still there should have trumped everything. I mean, this is literally the era of nationalism we are talking about.

There was some pro-German sentiment in early parts of both wars, which is largely what kept the US out of WWI for most of its length. But after the restart of unrestricted submarine warfare, the loss rates quickly pissed people off pretty badly and that sentiment was supressed, along with most artifacts of German identity in the US. The pro-German sentiment in WWII died out pretty quickly after the war started because of all the neutral countries attacked, the immediate submarine attacks, and the bombing of London. Of course, even then the US didn't go to war until after Germany declared war on the US, and there isn't much that pro-German sentiment can do to undermine that fact

[Taihei Tengoku]

Should I have a shower battalion as part of my logistics brigade (or shower company as part of logistics battalion)?

That's somewhat of a joke question, but in essence, how do I go about providing the average infantryman with a proper shower? I'd think in peacetime there should be no issues with frequent showers, but in combat, perhaps a shower at least once a week? Would help to get perspective on hygiene from anyone here that has seen combat or been in the military.

I'd think frontline troops would be rather dirty and unshowered, but if they take a bullet or a substantial chunk of shrapnel and get sent away to the closest military hospital, then they get to be around pretty nurses and finally bathe.

People pack baby wipes and wipe down when/if they have the opportunity. People who don't care don't wipe and then regret it when their papercut turns gangrenous.

Spergs on shipbucket say the Russians put a field shower and laundromat in the brigade supply train

[Gallia-]

If there are so many Germans in america how the hell did the country join the wrong side in two world wars? Genuine question here. At the very least I would have expected everyone with a German sounding name to be against the wars.

* Wrong as in "against germany". Just to make that clear. Not a moral judgment but a practical one.

Because there were much stronger economic, cultural, and political ties linking the US to Britain,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Plan_Red

The British formed one half of America's most obvious enemy prior to WW2. The other half was Japan. Planners were terrified they were going to be swamped by Vickers-built battleships in both oceans. Really, the only reason the British wanted to be with America is because the USA had a powerful industry and lots of money at the time. It is the same reason the British are going to the Chinese today.

[Free-Don]

If there are so many Germans in america how the hell did the country join the wrong side in two world wars? Genuine question here. At the very least I would have expected everyone with a German sounding name to be against the wars.

* Wrong as in "against germany". Just to make that clear. Not a moral judgment but a practical one.

Because the ancestry of a portion of the country is trumped by threats, attacks and declarations of war. I have very old Scottish ancestry but that doesn't mean I'll go over to their side when they try to gain independence again.

Speak for yourself.

I can't even enter Korea or China without being drafted.

[Austrasien]

Should I have a shower battalion as part of my logistics brigade (or shower company as part of logistics battalion)?

That's somewhat of a joke question, but in essence, how do I go about providing the average infantryman with a proper shower? I'd think in peacetime there should be no issues with frequent showers, but in combat, perhaps a shower at least once a week? Would help to get perspective on hygiene from anyone here that has seen combat or been in the military.

I'd think frontline troops would be rather dirty and unshowered, but if they take a bullet or a substantial chunk of shrapnel and get sent away to the closest military hospital, then they get to be around pretty nurses and finally bathe.

Copper fabrics are nice, they can inhibit the growth of bacteria that cause both body odor and skin infections for quite a long time with minimal care.

[Gallia-]

Why copper?

Silver is too expensive for mass production?

[Austrasien]

Cheaper and a better antimicrobial.

[Gallia-]

a better antimicrobial.

Tell me more.

[Athrax]

Because there were much stronger economic, cultural, and political ties linking the US to Britain,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Plan_Red

The British formed one half of America's most obvious enemy prior to WW2. The other half was Japan. Planners were terrified they were going to be swamped by Vickers-built battleships in both oceans. Really, the only reason the British wanted to be with America is because the USA had a powerful industry and lots of money at the time. It is the same reason the British are going to the Chinese today.

The possibility of War Plan Red being put into implementation hinged almost entirely around the Anglo-Japanese alliance and the inter-bellum arms race in battleship construction. The passage of the Washington Naval Treaty and subsequent dissolusion of aforementioned alliance essentially mitigated the chances of the plan meaning anything, and by the time war broke out in '39 the Anglo-American relationship was fairly strong again.

[Gallia-]

Which proves it had nothing to do with any "historic ties". It was entirely a moment-by-moment development. Much like when the British were terrified the French were going to be the Next War's enemy through the 1920s. In the end, the British, French, and Americans were all allied against Germany, and most people in the early to mid-1920s would find that happened through a fascinating series of developments.

The Anglo-American Alliance more or less hinged on the events of May 1940. Without that occurring, the United States would focus on Asia, and the Anglo-French Second Entente would defeat Germany in due course.

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

It's sort of obvious that the USA would make war plans against Britain in the 1919-1939 period, given that Britain was absolutely the only single power that could seriously threaten the US mainland, with all other single powers a long way behind in their ability to do so. Britain together with Japan was also the only combination (other than those two plus other countries) that could do so with any great margin of superiority. Even if war were considered politically and socially undesirable and improbable, there would still be serious plans.

[Athrax]

Which proves it had nothing to do with any "historic ties". It was entirely a moment-by-moment development. Much like when the British were terrified the French were going to be the Next War's enemy through the 1920s. In the end, the British, French, and Americans were all allied against Germany, and most people in the early to mid-1920s would find that happened through a fascinating series of developments.

The Anglo-American Alliance more or less hinged on the events of May 1940. Without that occurring, the United States would focus on Asia, and the Anglo-French Second Entente would defeat Germany in due course.

I meant to say that historic ties between the US and Britian were at least as strong a motivator in their favor as the German-American affection for the Fatherland was, and probably greater. Of course current global events override all of this, just pointing out that the foundation for the original argument was flawed even on that point

[Diepe Haven]

hey guys, I had a question about military structure/organization. So I am figuring out stuff about my nation IC, and I have decided to go with a military of around 200,000-300,000 people (combat and noncombat personnel). Can anyone give me any tips as to how to organize my military?

[Gallia-]

hey guys, I had a question about military structure/organization. So I am figuring out stuff about my nation IC, and I have decided to go with a military of around 200,000-300,000 people (combat and noncombat personnel). Can anyone give me any tips as to how to organize my military?

Look at real life militaries and how they're organized. Wikipedia has lots of articles about this.

Which proves it had nothing to do with any "historic ties". It was entirely a moment-by-moment development. Much like when the British were terrified the French were going to be the Next War's enemy through the 1920s. In the end, the British, French, and Americans were all allied against Germany, and most people in the early to mid-1920s would find that happened through a fascinating series of developments.

The Anglo-American Alliance more or less hinged on the events of May 1940. Without that occurring, the United States would focus on Asia, and the Anglo-French Second Entente would defeat Germany in due course.

I meant to say that historic ties between the US and Britian were at least as strong a motivator in their favor as the German-American affection for the Fatherland was, and probably greater. Of course current global events override all of this, just pointing out that the foundation for the original argument was flawed even on that point

You made the same argument as Purpelia, but in reverse.

Most Americans at the time had very distant (if any) awareness of family members in Germany, Britain, etc. Beyond that the United States had no interest in deeply involving itself in foreign affairs prior to WW2, for a huge amount of reasons. Americans on the isolationist side felt burned by the British in WW1, the interventionists were divided between FDR-types who ultimately wanted to see a reformed League of Nations and the Henry Cabot Lodge-types who were opposed to any encroachments on national sovereignty, etc.

The US alliance with Britain, later France, and other countries had nothing to do with repaying its debt to the House of Bourbon with a vengeance, or whatever nebulous "historic ties" existed between the USA and Britain prior to WW2. "Political similarities" or "similarity of political preferences" is probably more accurate, since the Western World had been in a cold war with the Soviet Union since the invasion of Siberia, but that has nothing to do with history. The United States turned Germany from a fascist slave empire into a democracy in less than 10 years and they've been allies ever since. Ditto Japan.

[Kazarogkai]

If there are so many Germans in america how the hell did the country join the wrong side in two world wars? Genuine question here. At the very least I would have expected everyone with a German sounding name to be against the wars.

* Wrong as in "against germany". Just to make that clear. Not a moral judgment but a practical one.

4 points:

1. Most German-Americans were what could be called "old immigrants" dating back to the early to mid 19th century consequently by the time of WW2 most were thoroughly assimilated and had little to no connection to the old country so to speak like say Italians or Russian Jews who had come comparably late.

2. That map represents for the most part plural majorities. Aka they may be by numbers largest ethnic group within said county but they lack a true majority(+51%). As a result the populations of Germans is not nearly as large as it looks.

3. This is further compounded by the fact that most of those counties are dramatically low in population. Outside the coast in what is termed flyover country it is quite low in population. With that in mind you may notice the majority of said self proclaimed Germans live in said counties consequently their population is even smaller than what that map would suggest.

4. America had rather good relations with both France and Britain though it didn't care much for Russia at the time. In contrast america's opinion of Germany was pretty neutral. The reason for war with Germany was less "we hate Germany" and more "they be attacking are homies". Also there were people from what I remember who really didn't want to go to war with Germany, but a combination of really good propaganda on the part of Britain/France and anger over German unrestricted submarine warfare resulted in those voices getting drowned out so to speak.

[Austrasien]

http://blog.eoscu.com/blog/silver-vs-co ... -biocide-0
http://blog.eoscu.com/blog/silver-vs-co ... -biocide-1

In both metals it is the metal ions which produce the biocidal effects. But Copper oxidizes more readily than silver and so releases its ions more consistently under a wider range of conditions. Copper has high antimicrobial efficiency at normal heat and humidity in all forms including copper rich alloys which makes copper antimicrobial products much more practical. Perhaps the only downside is copper is very mildly toxic. But the body is good at purging excess copper so this is not a huge concern.

[The Akasha Colony]

4 points:

1. Most German-Americans were what could be called "old immigrants" dating back to the early to mid 19th century consequently by the time of WW2 most were thoroughly assimilated and had little to no connection to the old country so to speak like say Italians or Russian Jews who had come comparably late.

"Germany" didn't exist when most of these immigrants arrived, which makes it even more unlikely that they would feel any particular affinity for it.

2. That map represents for the most part plural majorities. Aka they may be by numbers largest ethnic group within said county but they lack a true majority(+51%). As a result the populations of Germans is not nearly as large as it looks.

It is still quite substantial though. Even today German-Americans are the single largest ethnic group in the United States and were even more dominant during the first half of the 20th century. They're still 14% of the population, which makes them alone a larger group than the entire African American population and almost as large as the Hispanic/Latino population.

[Diepe Haven]

Ok, so I have my Army organized, does it make sense like this:
First Army
1st Infantry Division
2nd Infantry Division
3rd Infantry Division
1st Armored Division
1st Cavalry Division
1st Experimental Brigade
Second Army
4th Infantry Division
5th Infantry Division
8th Infantry Division
2nd Cavalry Division
Third Army
6th Infantry Division
7th Infantry Division
3rd Cavalry Division
4th Cavalry Division

[Puzikas]

a better antimicrobial.

Tell me more.

Copper has a Oligodynamic effect.

It basically compromises the cells structure by way of ion exchange, inhibiting the growth of and killing the various Microorganisms.
Its worthwhile noting though that you can create resistance to this over time. I mean, not an insignificant amount of time, but still.

Perhaps the only downside is copper is very mildly toxic. But the body is good at purging excess copper so this is not a huge concern.

unless you are eating spoonfulls of copper, it isnt an issue.