Infantry Discussion Thread 10: Shovel Edition [NO FWORDS]

[Taihei Tengoku]

That gun needs to eat its vegetables.

It needs to bulk

What kind of military man doesn't have protein powder in his room

[Gallia-]

Creatine life.

Bulky McHoistsson.

[Azurg]

That gun needs to eat its vegetables.

>thinshaming my gat
so fucking triggered

[Free-Don]

Styr Aug vs M4 Carbine?

You can cram more tacticool rubbish on an M4, but the AUG looks cooler by default. The real answer, however, is 'G40'

Sights look a tad bit too low. I mean you do have enough room to smash the corner of your temple into the stock but...

[Taihei Tengoku]

Creatine life.

Bulky McHoistsson.

This makes me want to start talking about PT, such as this 1956 PFT order. A unifying theme of all these old PT tests seem to be a large number of different exercises and no real maximum to aim for, where in today it's collapsed to upper body + core + run and more of a "300 or bust" culture in those who care (and "max max relax" in those who don't). Some countries are weird and do stuff with balance beams and medicine balls but most that matter just do push-sit-run

Anyways, TT PFT:
1) Pullups. Male is max 25 min 5, 4 points per. Female is max 10 min 2, 10 points per.
2) 15kg ammunition can press for 2 min. Male is max 100 min 40, 1 point per. Female is max 60 min 20, 2 points per, 20 points at minimum.
3) Sit-ups for 2 minutes, max 110, min 50, 1 point per, first 10 are unscored, unisex.
4) Pacer test. Male is max 130 laps (13.12), min 70 (8.9), female is max 110 min 50, 1 point per lap, 40 points at minimum.

The score is out of 400, designed both to be fair and to be easy to calculate. The test is administered quarterly, with every other test being for score. Standards don't change with age but the first-class threshold declines with age until after age 50 it is a pass/fail test.

e: does anyone (Puz) know how to fix a knee that is feeling weird? My right knee has been feeling like it has been "smashed together" and that the bones are running on each other as opposed to the tendons, if that illustrates the issue somewhat

[Puzikas]

does anyone (Puz) know how to fix a knee that is feeling weird? My right knee has been feeling like it has been "smashed together" and that the bones are running on each other as opposed to the tendons, if that illustrates the issue somewhat

Just some questions; relating only to the knee.

Does it hurt? Scale of 1-10?
If so, is there any radiation of pain? Forward to back, side to side, front to back?
Is it stiff?
Is there any popping, cracking?

If you want a more in depth assesment feel free to TG me.

Place the knee on heat for 15 minutes, wait a few minutes and then do some basic knee stretches:

Lying face down, bend your right knee and grab your ankle with your right hand. (You may want to rest your forehead on your left forearm for support.) Gently pull your right foot towards your buttocks until you feel a gentle stretch in the thigh. Hold the stretch for 30 seconds before slowly lowering your leg. Repeat two more times (for a total of three times), switch sides, and repeat.

Lie down on your back with both knees bent. Loop a towel or strap around your right foot and, holding on to the strap for support, extend and elevate your right leg to a 45-degree angle. Once you feel a gentle stretch in your right hamstring (behind the knee and thigh), hold for 30 seconds. Slowly lower and repeat two more times, switch sides, and repeat.

Kneel on one knee (feel free to put down a towel or mat) with your other foot planted flat on the ground in front of you. Make close to a 90-degree angle with both of your legs. Lean forward toward your front leg, stretching the front of your hip downward. Next, grab the ankle of your leg planted on the ground, and pull it toward your rear for a deep hamstring and hip stretch down the front leg, all the way to your knee. Move in and out of this stretch for 10 to 15 reps or more, depending on your level of tightness.

Buy a compression brace and wear it for a day and see if that goes anywhere.

[Gallia-]

Creatine life.

Bulky McHoistsson.

This makes me want to start talking about PT,

The Royal Army has a somewhat unusual physical fitness test in that the minimum scores are obfuscated from recruits. Training instructors grade recruits on a tiered metric based on total repetitions or a minimum time, but recruits are unaware of these minimum standards. Standards also vary based on job field. The Royal Army has a prescribed absolute minimum standard for that field, intended to represent a fitness level expected of a soldier in that position. For example, an office clerk will be allowed somewhat laxer standards than a combat infantryman; while the single blind grading scale is expected to sidestep a "teach for test" mentality. Exercises are built around testing anaerobic and aerobic fitness.

Each Branch [Infantry, Royal Artillery, Cavalry, Aviation, etc. etc.] of the Royal Army maintains and submits its own score sheets for physical fitness.

In the event that a specific job or position is too new (for example, UAS Operator prior to 1998) to have a specific sheet of absolute minimums, the Army General Minimum (AGM) will be used, which is intended to be a generic minimum that can "adequately" fulfill the physical fitness needs of any position. In general, the AGM is less strenuous than a combat arms physical fitness test, but more strenuous than a "typical" rear area or support physical fitness test.

The physical fitness test for basic combat training is broken down thus, using the Army General Minimum Group 1A (Male, 17-22) Standards:

Anaerobic test
- Maximum push-ups in 2 minutes
- Maximum sit-ups in 2 minutes
- Maximum squat-thrusts 1 minute
- Maximum lunges in 1 minute
- Maximum pull-ups in 1 minute
- Maximum dips in 1 minute
- 25-yard shuttle run, 10 laps

Aerobic test
- 15-minute run in fitness gear and running shoes or
- 20-minute swim in swimming trunks, any stroke or
- 25-minute bike ride in fitness gear and running shoes

Minimum standards:

Anaerobic:
Push-ups: 40
Sit-ups: 45
Squat-thrusts: 25
Lunges: 30
Pull-ups: 5
Dips: 6
Shuttle Run: 45 seconds

Aerobic:
Run: 2 miles
Swim: 900 yards
Cycle: 6.5 miles

Timing, repetition minimums, and exercise score weights vary based on job. Infantryman, artillerymen, and the like will generally be judged with a higher weight towards anaerobic fitness, while clerks, non-combat medical personnel, and other rear area positions will be weighed more equally between the tests. For Group 1A Infantrymen, added weights while performing lunges, pull-ups, and dips is mandatory. Minimum weight for this group with lunges is 90 lbs (two 45 lbs dumbbells), for pull-ups is 20 lbs, for dips is 20 lbs. Minimum reps are 40, 8, and 10, respectively.

Such a score as the above on the AGM 1A would render a soldier with a lower scale "Fair" rating on the physical assessment test, with recommendation from the training instructor to improve his physical fitness. This is the lowest acceptable grade of physical fitness for Gallan Army recruits, and approximately 85-90% of recruits can meet this standard after completing basic training. Of four grades ("Excellent", "Good", "Fair", "Poor"), a high grade of "Poor" can render a full review of the soldier's fitness. Approximately 10-15% of recruits receive a grade of "Poor" after basic training, of which about 33% are reviewed and allowed to continue their military career by attending Army Physical Training School, or are recycled into a new basic training class.

The Army Physical Fitness Test is administered during the latter half of Week 7 of basic training. The following week is spent either in remedial training (for the unfit soldiers) or in conducting a variety of field exercises, culminating in a live fire exercise over the course of the last weekend.

tl;dr Svoley McVikingsson buffest guys??? they could probably rip a TT in half and that's before i bring frisia to mare and subject you all to forced wasp memes, because galla is bees and frisia is WASP although that will require weird mental gymnastics to get through the whole "fascism and catholicism are integrally connected" bit

also Bicep War I-MCMLXXXVIX between the Infantry and Cavalry means that by 2050 the Gallan paratrooper will be required to run a 2 mile march in 15 minutes, 20 pull-ups and 30 dips with a full combat jump load, all runs in full combat equipment and body armor, and a 2 km swim in 45 minutes with combat gear and a rucksack. 2055 the Javelin missile gunner and Stinger missile gunner have to do that with their respective weapon systems strapped to their backs, too. Train as you fight, Hurrrrra!, etc.

The muscle arms race will never end.

[Azurg]

Sights look a tad bit too low. I mean you do have enough room to smash the corner of your temple into the stock but...

They are, yeah. I've just been too lazy to draw taller ones, reasoning that anyone buying said rifles would throw an optic on top, rendering it a moot point. A later itteration did get a bit of a sight-rib, though

[Gallia-]

holy shit lmao italy what a joke nation for joke people

Push-ups: 8
Sit-ups: 6
1km run: 5:45

I could do this and I'm sedentary as hell.

Luxembourg otoh is pretty swole.

Denmark is just :Galla: irl or :WW2 USA: with their lunges, dips, and shuttle runs. At least the Danish haven't totally surrendered re: fightan'.

[Puzikas]

Hooooly fuck that is retarded easy
You could literally do that in 7 minutes

[NeuPolska]

holy shit lmao italy what a joke nation for joke people

Push-ups: 8
Sit-ups: 6
1km run: 5:45

I could do this and I'm sedentary as hell.

Is this actually legit?

[Theodosiya]

I could do 15-20 push ups
10 sit ups
Under 5 minutes

I might be weak, but I'm not that weak.

[NeuPolska]

I could do 15-20 push ups
10 sit ups
Under 5 minutes

I might be weak, but I'm not that weak.

Push-ups I can get to 40-50
Sit-ups I'm not sure, I don't really count when I do them, I just do the opposite-side-to-opposite-side thing for like 10 mins as thoroughly as I can without stopping. Then do regular crunches for like 10 mins after that.
I'm not that fast though. I've done a mile in 7-8 minutes and it's late and I don't feel like doing math. Probably could manage 5 minutes, because I try to pace myself for the mile, but the kilometer wouldn't be as long so I could probably push myself harder.

EDIT: Did some math and I'd be coming pretty close to that 5 minute mark.

[Vassenor]

Styr Aug vs M4 Carbine?

You can cram more tacticool rubbish on an M4

They're working on that though.

[Azurg]

Indisputable proof that there is no god

[Kassaran]

I could do 15-20 push ups
10 sit ups
Under 5 minutes

I might be weak, but I'm not that weak.

Push-ups I can get to 40-50
Sit-ups I'm not sure, I don't really count when I do them, I just do the opposite-side-to-opposite-side thing for like 10 mins as thoroughly as I can without stopping. Then do regular crunches for like 10 mins after that.
I'm not that fast though. I've done a mile in 7-8 minutes and it's late and I don't feel like doing math. Probably could manage 5 minutes, because I try to pace myself for the mile, but the kilometer wouldn't be as long so I could probably push myself harder.

EDIT: Did some math and I'd be coming pretty close to that 5 minute mark.

Highest PT score I ever got was 289... just short of my PFA. o~o

That translates to a 13:12 2-mile; 69 Push-ups, and 75 sit-ups.

Admittedly, I'm at my prime right now for being an SM, but that doesn't mean jack-shit on the extended scale, or what some of these guys around me can do. Watched someone do one push-up every second for the two minute push up test and then get 100+ on the sit-ups. His 2-mile was like, 15 minutes, but guy went SpecOps afterwards. He had airborne in his contract and was some big guy from Puerto Rico.

On the other end, you get the skinnier ones who come in and all they can do is run. I've seen under 12 minute two miles and a few of my coworkers have seen someone run a 10-minute two-mile... His push-ups weren't all that good, but his sit-ups were decent too.

[Khornatenreich]

I mean I dunno if you can even call Mk. 262 Mod. 1 5.56x45 anymore.

Then, well, what the hell is it?

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

What's more likely is that China, with continuing high national average IQ but cratering fighting age population, will have less but better stuff, while the Brazilifying US will become a quantity over quality power. That combined with extreme casualty aversion probably will cause the US to Brazilify strategically too, largely withdrawing from international affairs.

I suppose it all depends on how many F-35s the USAF gets and how far the PRC keeps taking its military reforms, TBH. If USA gets all 3,000 or whatever JSFs there's no problem, but a more realistic proposition is anywhere from 400-1,200. I can see the PRC matching the latter figure pretty easily in all combat airframes but maybe not so much in VLO platforms. The more pessimistic number puts the USAF at a serious disadvantage while the higher number means it can probably go toe-to-toe with the PLAAF in a shooting war, if it commits to nowhere else.

If the PLA keeping dipping in size, I suspect it'll look at the Army as a meat preserve and start hacking away at that to allow for more fighter pilots or something, so it might still be able to match the USAF man for man with equivalent or better aircraft. That seems to be what Xi is shooting for, anyway, although he probably eyes Taiwan over Japan and America.

First I am talking about 2100 time frame, not 2030. To 2030, the US can probably abolish its military and just skate on inertia.

By 2100 I do not think the US will be capable of producing leading edge air and naval equipment. IQ dilution will have reached the point where the small smart fraction will have its work cut out just maintaining essential services. And a large proportion of that smart fraction is going to be either Chinese or partly Chinese anyway.

Second what China has historically been is irrelevant. China has historically been the entire known world; its historical strategic situation isn't informative the way that of a country like France might be. With current technology and the current strategic environment, China is in no serious sense a land power. It is bounded by mountains, desert, and a largely uninhabited part of Russia. It needs to be able to overawe Vietnam, Cambodia, etc. - how hard is that? It doesn't really need to be serious sea power either, but it can be one at a low cost, and certainly has more to win there that could be seriously contested by other powers.

[Taihei Tengoku]

does anyone (Puz) know how to fix a knee that is feeling weird? My right knee has been feeling like it has been "smashed together" and that the bones are running on each other as opposed to the tendons, if that illustrates the issue somewhat

Just some questions; relating only to the knee.

Does it hurt? Scale of 1-10?
If so, is there any radiation of pain? Forward to back, side to side, front to back?
Is it stiff?
Is there any popping, cracking?

It is around a 2--more a nuisance than anything. It makes me somewhat concerned when I do squats, that's about it

This makes me want to start talking about PT,

The Royal Army has a somewhat unusual physical fitness test in that the minimum scores are obfuscated from recruits. Training instructors grade recruits on a tiered metric based on total repetitions or a minimum time, but recruits are unaware of these minimum standards. Standards also vary based on job field. The Royal Army has a prescribed absolute minimum standard for that field, intended to represent a fitness level expected of a soldier in that position. For example, an office clerk will be allowed somewhat laxer standards than a combat infantryman; while the single blind grading scale is expected to sidestep a "teach for test" mentality. Exercises are built around testing anaerobic and aerobic fitness.

Each Branch [Infantry, Royal Artillery, Cavalry, Aviation, etc. etc.] of the Royal Army maintains and submits its own score sheets for physical fitness.

In the event that a specific job or position is either too new (for example, UAS Operator prior to 1998) to have a specific sheet of absolute minimums, the Army General Minimum (AGM) will be used, which is intended to be a generic minimum that can "adequately" fulfill the physical fitness needs of any position. In general, the AGM is less strenuous than a combat arms physical fitness test, but more strenuous than a "typical" rear area or support physical fitness test.

The physical fitness test for basic combat training is broken down thus, using the Army General Minimum Group 1A (Male, 17-22) Standards:

Anaerobic test
- Maximum push-ups in 2 minutes
- Maximum sit-ups in 2 minutes
- Maximum squat-thrusts 1 minute
- Maximum lunges in 1 minute
- Maximum pull-ups in 1 minute
- Maximum dips in 1 minute
- 25-yard shuttle run, 10 laps

Aerobic test
- 15-minute run in fitness gear and running shoes or
- 20-minute swim in swimming trunks, any stroke or
- 25-minute bike ride in fitness gear and running shoes

- 2-mile march in combat boots, uniform, with fighting load (~60 lbs)

Minimum standards:

Anaerobic:
Push-ups: 40
Sit-ups: 45
Squat-thrusts: 25
Lunges: 30
Pull-ups: 5
Dips: 6
Shuttle Run: 45 seconds

Aerobic:
Run: 2 miles
Swim: 900 yards
Cycle: 6.5 miles

March: 30 minutes

AGM-1A is fairly strict re:aerobics--a 7:30 mile is wholly achievable with a little training but most militaries allow up to a 9:00 mile as a bare minimum. A 4mph pace is also easily doable with 60lbs for a half hour but I don't know how many training hikes you can subject (presumably) untrained, sedentary civilians in 7 weeks to the point where 90% of them could manage it.

[Communist Xomaniax]

Hey quick question, assuming early PMT, would it be possible to engineer a gyrojet rifle that actually would be good as a service weapon?

[Gallia-]

AGM-1A is fairly strict re:aerobics--a 7:30 mile is wholly achievable with a little training but most militaries allow up to a 9:00 mile as a bare minimum. A 4mph pace is also easily doable with 60lbs for a half hour but I don't know how many training hikes you can subject (presumably) untrained, sedentary civilians in 7 weeks to the point where 90% of them could manage it.

Mb I will bump it up to a 45 minute march and a 18 minute run?

I should probably work out how the training hours are broken down anyway.

[Taihei Tengoku]

I don't think most marches ought to be timed--most conditioning hikes are graded on whether you can stay with the formation while it marches at the doctrinal pace (US is 3.5mph) over uneven terrain. Having a tough pass/fail hike in basic training is worthwhile (the USMC has a 15km hike as a graduation requirement for both enlisted and officer) but it will encourage "teach to the test" in non-combat specialties because the only reason some of these people will hike and for some units to issue main packs will be for the fitness test

[Kazarogkai]

holy shit lmao italy what a joke nation for joke people

Push-ups: 8
Sit-ups: 6
1km run: 5:45

I could do this and I'm sedentary as hell.

Luxembourg otoh is pretty swole.

Denmark is just :Galla: irl or :WW2 USA: with their lunges, dips, and shuttle runs. At least the Danish haven't totally surrendered re: fightan'.

That would take me about 30 mins, I have no endurance and can't jog that well, but everything else is pretty easy. I'm guessing they have a "you don't need to be good, well make you good" type of mentality.

[Gallia-]

I don't think most marches ought to be timed--most conditioning hikes are graded on whether you can stay with the formation while it marches at the doctrinal pace (US is 3.5mph) over uneven terrain. Having a tough pass/fail hike in basic training is worthwhile (the USMC has a 15km hike as a graduation requirement for both enlisted and officer) but it will encourage "teach to the test" in non-combat specialties because the only reason some of these people will hike and for some units to issue main packs will be for the fitness test

It may be that the hike will just be a graduation requirement for basic training, then. Combat troops will have to do the hike in their fitness tests, but non-combat troops will just have to do a run/swim/bike for fitness tests after basic training? I guess it depends on the unit in specificity though, like if they're a field radio company in a parachute regiment they will probably need to hike, even though their job is technically not a combat position.

[Taihei Tengoku]

I don't think most marches ought to be timed--most conditioning hikes are graded on whether you can stay with the formation while it marches at the doctrinal pace (US is 3.5mph) over uneven terrain. Having a tough pass/fail hike in basic training is worthwhile (the USMC has a 15km hike as a graduation requirement for both enlisted and officer) but it will encourage "teach to the test" in non-combat specialties because the only reason some of these people will hike and for some units to issue main packs will be for the fitness test

It may be that the hike will just be a graduation requirement for basic training, then. Combat troops will have to do the hike in their fitness tests, but non-combat troops will just have to do a run/swim/bike for fitness tests after basic training? I guess it depends on the unit in specificity though, like if they're a field radio company in a parachute regiment they will probably need to hike, even though their job is technically not a combat position.

Combat troops should have a separate hike program rather than a fitness test--whether you can keep up with a 20-mile, 100lb company hike in the hills is probably more important and a better indicator of fitness than a 2-mile powerwalk. Some people will jog/run it too, which gives them a good score but will also give them early-onset arthritis