Infantry Discussion Thread 10: Shovel Edition [NO FWORDS]

[Rhodesialund]

Puz, didn't you get a Gemtech or?

Yah
GM22 and a YHM Phantom

Nice, leaning towards a Silencerco myself, although I really am lusting after a KAC. Although the lust would be more accurate as a "Brand Name" Lust.

[Austrasien]

So considering recent events what use would infantry have in space based warfare?

None.

Maybe when we colonise the moon.

[Puzikas]

What recent events? The G20 summit somehow has a correlation to spaceinfantry

[Gallia-]

What recent events?

Ikr.

So considering recent events what use would infantry have in space based warfare?

None.

Maybe when we colonise the moon.

>Not colonizing the Moon in the 1970s.
>Not having a Lunar Underground Rail in the 1990s.

Amateurs.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4ymel7c6yf64w ... .pdf?raw=1

[Ormata]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4ymel7c6yf64wcj/tm27.pdf?raw=1

Typo, page 12. "If a heat stroke casualty is not identified immediately and evacuated to the nearest habitable shelter, he will die. If no shetler is in the immediate vicinity, he will die."

Otherwise enjoying the read. Thanks!

[Kassaran]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4ymel7c6yf64wcj/tm27.pdf?raw=1

Typo, page 12. "If a heat stroke casualty is not identified immediately and evacuated to the nearest habitable shelter, he will die. If no shetler is in the immediate vicinity, he will die."

Otherwise enjoying the read. Thanks!

What do you mean? You've never heard of a Shetler? They're critically important to keeping someone alive.

[Sevvania]

Typo, page 12. "If a heat stroke casualty is not identified immediately and evacuated to the nearest habitable shelter, he will die. If no shetler is in the immediate vicinity, he will die."

Otherwise enjoying the read. Thanks!

What do you mean? You've never heard of a Shetler? They're critically important to keeping someone alive.

Heat stroke cavfefe must be evacuated to the nearest habitable shetler

[Gallia-]

I mean you could pick actually wrong things in there. There's probably plenty of them.

[NeuPolska]

How do you even have the time let alone effort to put something like that together

"Spergsexual"

Oh right.

[Gallia-]

yes i only crush on spergs

[Khornatenreich]

Alright brochachos, I've got a question for a semi-practical unit loadout of sorts. Primarily, how many spare barrels for a Linear-Motorbüchse equipped Anti-Panzertruppe squad? If any of you have an idea on how to approach this, please, feel free to give it a whirl. My big dilemma is whether or not to treat it like spare MG barrels for the weapon-operator's squad itself, or if I should treat it like PAK team treated spare parts for their guns. It's a platoon asset though, might as well get that out of the way.

And yes, the XV.110 uses a 20mm sabot with a 15mm (or 13mm, haven't really decided on which yet) projectile.

And just to get this out of the way, I was the guy who originally commissioned the whole project set for this set of dieselpunk Linear Motor Rifles from RB.

[Purpelia]

Alright brochachos, I've got a question for a semi-practical unit loadout of sorts. Primarily, how many spare barrels for a Linear-Motorbüchse equipped Anti-Panzertruppe squad? If any of you have an idea on how to approach this, please, feel free to give it a whirl. My big dilemma is whether or not to treat it like spare MG barrels for the weapon-operator's squad itself, or if I should treat it like PAK team treated spare parts for their guns. It's a platoon asset though, might as well get that out of the way.

And yes, the XV.110 uses a 20mm sabot with a 15mm (or 13mm, haven't really decided on which yet) projectile.

And just to get this out of the way, I was the guy who originally commissioned the whole project set for this set of dieselpunk Linear Motor Rifles from RB.

(Image)

That is going to depend on how many shots each barrel can withstand.

[Khornatenreich]

Alright brochachos, I've got a question for a semi-practical unit loadout of sorts. Primarily, how many spare barrels for a Linear-Motorbüchse equipped Anti-Panzertruppe squad? If any of you have an idea on how to approach this, please, feel free to give it a whirl. My big dilemma is whether or not to treat it like spare MG barrels for the weapon-operator's squad itself, or if I should treat it like PAK team treated spare parts for their guns. It's a platoon asset though, might as well get that out of the way.

And yes, the XV.110 uses a 20mm sabot with a 15mm (or 13mm, haven't really decided on which yet) projectile.

And just to get this out of the way, I was the guy who originally commissioned the whole project set for this set of dieselpunk Linear Motor Rifles from RB.

(Image)

That is going to depend on how many shots each barrel can withstand.

I'm probably going to judge that on a magazine-to-magazine basis tbh.

[Purpelia]

That is going to depend on how many shots each barrel can withstand.

I'm probably going to judge that on a magazine-to-magazine basis tbh.

Why would the average number of shots between the barrel wears out depend on the magazine?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Alright brochachos, I've got a question for a semi-practical unit loadout of sorts. Primarily, how many spare barrels for a Linear-Motorbüchse equipped Anti-Panzertruppe squad? If any of you have an idea on how to approach this, please, feel free to give it a whirl. My big dilemma is whether or not to treat it like spare MG barrels for the weapon-operator's squad itself, or if I should treat it like PAK team treated spare parts for their guns. It's a platoon asset though, might as well get that out of the way.

And yes, the XV.110 uses a 20mm sabot with a 15mm (or 13mm, haven't really decided on which yet) projectile.

And just to get this out of the way, I was the guy who originally commissioned the whole project set for this set of dieselpunk Linear Motor Rifles from RB.

(Image)

That is going to depend on how many shots each barrel can withstand.

And that depends on how fast you're throwing the projectile. If it's rifled expect it to wear out faster simply because you're stripping out pieces of the rifling with every shot.

[Strommend]

What recent events? The G20 summit somehow has a correlation to spaceinfantry

Mike Pence promises to put American boots on Mars.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/07/06/politics/mike-pence-mars-nasa/index.html

[Khornatenreich]

I'm probably going to judge that on a magazine-to-magazine basis tbh.

Why would the average number of shots between the barrel wears out depend on the magazine?

Magazine capacity will dictate number of shots fired, ergo, we can then gesticulate what a potential wear-out limit for a singular barrel would be. From there, it can be determined what status the barrels have, fitting the same niche as spare barrels for an MG gunner & ammo-jockey/tripod-jockey.

[Purpelia]

Why would the average number of shots between the barrel wears out depend on the magazine?

Magazine capacity will dictate number of shots fired, ergo, we can then gesticulate what a potential wear-out limit for a singular barrel would be. From there, it can be determined what status the barrels have, fitting the same niche as spare barrels for an MG gunner & ammo-jockey/tripod-jockey.

I don't know much about guns but as far as I know barrels tend to last for thousands upon thousands of rounds. So like why would the magazine capacity matter? It's not like you are running into overheating issues either as you are not going to be firing an anti tank rifle on full auto. Also like reading that, and seeing the high voltage warnings, makes me think its some sort of non rifled firearm. In that case is barrel life going to even be a thing? Like there is no rifling to wear out.

[Dostanuot Loj]

In the essay The Soldier's Load by Col. S.L.A. Marshall, the author talks a great deal about how military planners consistently overestimated how much gear soldiers would need. GIs storming ashore on D-Day carried three day's rations when on the first day they ate and drank very little(likely due to all the fighting those first troops were seeing). Marines in the Pacific were carrying five to eight grenades each, when he cites the figure of only six percent or less of soldiers actually making use of the grenade. And in the war before that, troops often carried two hundred rounds each as recommended by von Moltke when outfitting his Prussians; American troops were required to be carrying that number even in quiet sectors with little fighting, with brutal results.

Are these findings corroborated elsewhere? As I understand it, giving troops more equipment actually increases mobility - more ammunition means you don't need to constantly need to go to the rear to resupply, more body armor means a soldier is harder to put out of action, night vision and similar optics means they can operate more hours of the day, etc. But I'm sure the temptation to give soldiers all the gear they could possibly need is very real.

Anything that comes from SLA Marshall is suspect as his methodology is suspect and he is known to have fabricated results. Take what you want from him but know that among the milhist academic community at large he is controversial, and is essentially a better Sparkey. The flip side is Western militaries (The US primarily) have adopted him wholesale regardless.

[Khornatenreich]

Magazine capacity will dictate number of shots fired, ergo, we can then gesticulate what a potential wear-out limit for a singular barrel would be. From there, it can be determined what status the barrels have, fitting the same niche as spare barrels for an MG gunner & ammo-jockey/tripod-jockey.

I don't know much about guns but as far as I know barrels tend to last for thousands upon thousands of rounds. So like why would the magazine capacity matter? It's not like you are running into overheating issues either as you are not going to be firing an anti tank rifle on full auto. Also like reading that, and seeing the high voltage warnings, makes me think its some sort of non rifled firearm. In that case is barrel life going to even be a thing? Like there is no rifling to wear out.

RB & I just agreed to roll with the Joachim Hansler model for Linear Motor construction here; so what constitutes rail wear? Excessive heat? potential flashback from heavy use? Up for debate in this case unless Galla or Kyiv have a magically appearing set of sperg-tier glory in article form from BAE systems and a few other firms that have been professionally approaching the subject at hand. Because I must say, if that be the case, then we can do the usual IDT bullshittery party where the fucks and nuance are discussed, then somebody goes "dats cool, give now broham", ect.

[Purpelia]

RB & I just agreed to roll with the Joachim Hansler model for Linear Motor construction here; so what constitutes rail wear? Excessive heat? potential flashback from heavy use? Up for debate in this case unless Galla or Kyiv have a magically appearing set of sperg-tier glory in article form from BAE systems and a few other firms that have been professionally approaching the subject at hand. Because I must say, if that be the case, then we can do the usual IDT bullshittery party where the fucks and nuance are discussed, then somebody goes "dats cool, give now broham", ect.

A railgun won't produce any more problems with barrel wear than a firearm with the same projective and velocity. Either way you have one piece of metal rubbing against another. It might even produce less because you don't hate to think about fouling or rifling. The reason why they are famous for having wear issues is not because they are excessively prone to these problems but because they are being contemplated explicitly in the context of something to go beyond and above current firearms. So the wear is going to depend on what operating velocities do you want to achieve from this thing and what kind of rounds you fire.

[Khornatenreich]

RB & I just agreed to roll with the Joachim Hansler model for Linear Motor construction here; so what constitutes rail wear? Excessive heat? potential flashback from heavy use? Up for debate in this case unless Galla or Kyiv have a magically appearing set of sperg-tier glory in article form from BAE systems and a few other firms that have been professionally approaching the subject at hand. Because I must say, if that be the case, then we can do the usual IDT bullshittery party where the fucks and nuance are discussed, then somebody goes "dats cool, give now broham", ect.

A railgun won't produce any more problems with barrel wear than a firearm with the same projective and velocity. Either way you have one piece of metal rubbing against another. It might even produce less because you don't hate to think about fouling or rifling. The reason why they are famous for having wear issues is not because they are excessively prone to these problems but because they are being contemplated explicitly in the context of something to go beyond and above current firearms. So the wear is going to depend on what operating velocities do you want to achieve from this thing and what kind of rounds you fire.

Food for thought though Purp, in regard to why magazine capacity matters in this theoretical drawing-board-to-deployment debacle; it might be useful to know how many magazines worth of ammunition can be put down the same barrel/set-of-rails (rail-module to be precise) in a practical engagement's assumed period of time. Same rules that are applied to material or component survival analysis tests if viewed from a somewhat analytical perspective.

[Purpelia]

Food for thought though Purp, in regard to why magazine capacity matters in this theoretical drawing-board-to-deployment debacle; it might be useful to know how many magazines worth of ammunition can be put down the same barrel/set-of-rails (rail-module to be precise) in a practical engagement's assumed period of time. Same rules that are applied to material or component survival analysis tests if viewed from a somewhat analytical perspective.

Either way, if your front line weapon has such a short barrel life that you have to even contemplate completely dumping a barrel after one or several engagements it's probably not really good. And things like 20 vs 30 round magazines (made up numbers just to serve as an example) is not really going to change that.

[Khornatenreich]

Food for thought though Purp, in regard to why magazine capacity matters in this theoretical drawing-board-to-deployment debacle; it might be useful to know how many magazines worth of ammunition can be put down the same barrel/set-of-rails (rail-module to be precise) in a practical engagement's assumed period of time. Same rules that are applied to material or component survival analysis tests if viewed from a somewhat analytical perspective.

Either way, if your front line weapon has such a short barrel life that you have to even contemplate completely dumping a barrel after one or several engagements it's probably not really good. And things like 20 vs 30 round magazines (made up numbers just to serve as an example) is not really going to change that.

Purp, you do understand why some units issue out spare barrels for machine guns, right? It's rare that they ever have to use them, but Joe, Heinrich, Ivan, Chang & co (accounting for modern international infantry nicknames akin to "joe" here) aren't always the sharpest tools in the shed. If you ever feel like toning down your pedantry for just a tiny little bit and talk with any veterans, they typically cite this as a reason for issuing spares. It's unlikely the unit in question will actually burn through the initially issued barrel in question, but it's nice to have a fallback in the event of causality angrily shitting the bed.

[Purpelia]

Purp, you do understand why some units issue out spare barrels for machine guns, right? It's rare that they ever have to use them, but Joe, Heinrich, Ivan, Chang & co (accounting for modern international infantry nicknames akin to "joe" here) aren't always the sharpest tools in the shed. If you ever feel like toning down your pedantry for just a tiny little bit and talk with any veterans, they typically cite this as a reason for issuing spares. It's unlikely the unit in question will actually burn through the initially issued barrel in question, but it's nice to have a fallback in the event of causality angrily shitting the bed.

That is what I was talking about initially when I asked you how long you think the barrel life was going to be.

That question was explicitly meant to determine if this thing is going to have a relatively long total barrel life but with the occasional temporary swap due to overheating or if it was something that is going to have a comparatively short barrel life with permanent swaps ever so often. You asked how the barrels for these things should be handled and the answer explicitly depends on that.

#1. means you only ever need one spare carried by an assistant gunner.
#2. means you have to stockpile and distribute spares and must therefore organize a more robust supply chain.