Infantry Discussion Thread 10: Shovel Edition [NO FWORDS]

[Purpelia]

alloy glock frames exist.

also

(Image)

Sexy, ain't it. Now imagine that in like idiotic levels of embellishment to the point where you are bankrupting several 2nd world countries to pay for it.

[Fordorsia]

alloy glock frames exist.

also

(Image)

I simply can't understand how anyone could find this even remotely attractive

[Purpelia]

alloy glock frames exist.

also

(Image)

I simply can't understand how anyone could find this even remotely attractive

- The qualify of craftsmanship and effort that goes into it.
- The beauty of the lines, fine work and patterning. Although that gun really isn't much of an example. See better stuff here.
- The irony of taking a design that a physical manifestation of function over form and turning it into a purely esthetic object.

[Laywenrania]

The essence of the last pages: PSO-1 for every rifle man? xD

[Rhodesialund]

The essence of the last pages: PSO-1 for every rifle man? xD

Naaaah, IOR Valdada M1/M2 4x24 scopes for everyone. That's better.

[Greater United American Republics]

Not issuing Starlight Scopes? That's how the communists win, you bunch of filthy red sympathizers.

[Laywenrania]

The essence of the last pages: PSO-1 for every rifle man? xD

Naaaah, IOR Valdada M1/M2 4x24 scopes for everyone. That's better.

No >:

Not issuing Starlight Scopes? That's how the communists win, you bunch of filthy red sympathizers.

Umh that's the goal

[Greater United American Republics]

Utterly despicable, you all deserve W23 salvos for supporting such a filthy ideology.

[Purpelia]

The bolt of the AR15 has a sort of dip in the front. I don't know what to call it but basically the bolt face is recessed inside the bolt body. And the bullet sort of goes into that hole. How deep is this recess? Like how much of the bullet does the bolt eat?

[Fordorsia]

The bolt of the AR15 has a sort of dip in the front. I don't know what to call it but basically the bolt face is recessed inside the bolt body. And the bullet sort of goes into that hole. How deep is this recess? Like how much of the bullet does the bolt eat?

The recess covers up to where the rear of the case body starts to taper down to the rim.

3.13mm is that?

[Purpelia]

The recess covers up to where the rear of the case body starts to taper down to the rim.

Thanks. I did not know that. Now I know how to size the bit for my own design.

I am still not 100% on why this is so but I assume it has something to do with holding on to the shell during extraction.

[Gallia-]

Also, Canuck C7 has a backup Iron sight on top of the ELCAN

(Image)

when they're new sure

if they've been in service for any length of time those little rubber nubs will be long gone

Honestly they seem a waste of manufacturing capacity in the first place.

Utterly despicable, you all deserve W23 salvos for supporting such a filthy ideology.

Shouldn't Fallout-verse be onto like W6969 or something>

[Fordorsia]

The recess covers up to where the rear of the case body starts to taper down to the rim.

Thanks. I did not know that. Now I know how to size the bit for my own design.

I am still not 100% on why this is so but I assume it has something to do with holding on to the shell during extraction.

Probably but I can't really say much. The extractor makes up like a 6th of the bolt face and the ejector is also in that recess, so yeah it's probably do do with extraction and ejection.

[-Celibrae-]

Integrated/future soldier systems.

What does your nation use?

I'm currently following the British (budget) route of ditching the 'integrated' part in favour of AA battery powered thermal sights and not much else.

I must admit, I do like the idea of a crate of Duracell 8-packs being airlifted to the frontline.

Oh, and some periscopes and cameras and stuff.

[Gallia-]

Also, Canuck C7 has a backup Iron sight on top of the ELCAN

(Image)

No, it doesn't.



Here is the remnants of one of these "back up iron sights" after typical field use:



Rubbed nearly completely down, certainly to the point of uselessness by now, and totally incapable of being used for anything except practice filing away such rubber things with an emery board.

You don't seem to realize that these "back up iron sights" are not only ignored on most military rifles (the USMC and US Army have backup iron sights, these are similar to MBUS or other rail-mounted peep sights that interface with the front post), but sometimes completely disappear while in service. They're useless things because of their small sight radius, puny notch sizes, and high offset compared to the barrel.

When you "hit the gong" with the sights on the AUG scope, you were essentially doing what is called "aimed quick firing" in the US military, where you look up or over the zeroed sights (rather than through) and point the rifle at the enemy. It's a method of firing used for night combat, because using iron sights in low-zero light levels is impossible, although I'm not sure how modern it is.

The US military has made night optical devices and stuff like Family of Weapon Sights nearly ubiquitous. At least PSQ-20 will be issued to every NCO and officer in line infantry units, and FWS III promises true "point and shoot" capability from the hip using a zeroed thermal sight that integrates with the PSQ-20 monocular (albeit wirelessly, so expect latency), to let soldiers return to the "quick shooting" method while retaining aimed-level accuracy. It's very much going to be "put crosshair on bad guy, pull trigger" like a video game, assuming they can get the NFC to work without trouble. Which I doubt, because it's wireless.

Should have used a fiber optic cable, US Army.

[Fordorsia]

Integrated/future soldier systems.

What does your nation use?

I'm currently following the British (budget) route of ditching the 'integrated' part in favour of AA battery powered thermal sights and not much else.

I must admit, I do like the idea of a crate of Duracell 8-packs being airlifted to the frontline.

Oh, and some periscopes and cameras and stuff.

Future space metal plate armour and swords

Exact same style and colours as irl plate and swords of course

[-Celibrae-]

Integrated/future soldier systems.

What does your nation use?

I'm currently following the British (budget) route of ditching the 'integrated' part in favour of AA battery powered thermal sights and not much else.

I must admit, I do like the idea of a crate of Duracell 8-packs being airlifted to the frontline.

Oh, and some periscopes and cameras and stuff.

Future space metal plate armour and swords

Exact same style and colours as irl plate and swords of course

In the far future, there is only Frod

Grimdark asf

[Austrasien]

Integrated/future soldier systems.

What does your nation use?

I'm currently following the British (budget) route of ditching the 'integrated' part in favour of AA battery powered thermal sights and not much else.

I must admit, I do like the idea of a crate of Duracell 8-packs being airlifted to the frontline.

Oh, and some periscopes and cameras and stuff.

Future soldier systems are a bit too retro for Austrasia.

[-Celibrae-]

Why can't you embrace the Cult of the Digital Warrior and network the enemy to death like a good boy?

[Gallia-]

Integrated/future soldier systems.

Galla has some.

What does your nation use?

It uses Type 21 "Kitten".



Kitten incorporates the "Lynx" Electronic Battle Vest (EBV), an armored vest (Shortstop [CVC vest], Goalkeeper [IOTV], or Linebacker [PASGT]), and a variety of optronics for small arms. The AM/PSK-10 II/FLIR day/night telescope is shown in the image, attached to the Ak95 automatic rifle and light machine gun. The AM/PAS-4M (Medium) thermal sight is shown attached to the Ksp60A light machine gun. Soldiers are wearing the Goalkeeper small arms protective vest, and the section sergeant is equipped with a AM/PRT-21 handheld transceiver. Other ranks carry the AM/PRR-21 radio receiver, with no transmission capability.

The electronic battle vest is designed to hold batteries, the computer, and incorporates mesh loops to keep fiber optic wires tidy and compact. The AM/PSS-7D and clip-on AM/PAS-5 FLIR are shown on the soldiers' helmets, which incorporates a modernized (Generation III tube) AM/PSS-7 night vision monocular and a medium field of view thermal imager. The AM/PSS-7D can be integrated with the AM/PAS-4L/M/T, and the AM/PSK-10, using a fiber optic cable. Alternatively, the soldier can wear a head mounted display with an AM/PSS-14 night vision monocular, which use the same tube technology as the AM/PSS-7D, which can also accept the clip-on FLIR.

The "Lynx" combat computer (essentially, a PDA built on an ARM CPU and running Linux) can seamlessly integrate the battle sight images to the soldier's monocular.

The Kitten system is broken down into multiple variants:

• Type 21F: For infantrymen. Described as above.
• Type 21K: For combat vehicle crewmen. Described as above, albeit with integration with the vehicle radios.
• Type 21LFK1: Small unit leader (Section/fireteam) model. Incorporates the push-to-talk AM/PRT-21 transceiver with the Lynx combat computer, which can be connected via a fiber cable. Essentially, a small software update for the Lynx that can be applied using the appropriate parallel data cable (the current standard is the commercial eSATA and ExpressCard "Combat Card" solid-state data storage) and transfer system. Normally, these are controlled by signals units and ground troops will "turn in" their combat computers to be updated using the appropriate software card.
• Type 21LFK2: Platoon leader (officer) model. Incorporates all previous components, plus the ability to utilize the Type 15 Field Slate, which is a touchscreen "data slate" which integrates to the Lynx Combat Computer. The Type 21LFK2 requires the expansion slot on the rear of the Lynx to be mated with the Combat Data Bus, which incorporates the commercial eSATA and ExpressCard, and the addition of the Tactical Solid State Storage hard drive (size is approximately 250 gigabytes). The TS3 supports a maximum data rate of approximately 375 megabytes/second, although a typical transfer is about half that. The TS3 is required for all future man-portable Lynx variants. For the platoon leader, the hard drive allows him to operate the Type 15 Field Slate as a control pad, allowing him to view an area map, plan fire missions, work with a database of normative tables, and integrates with the manpack version of the AM/PRT-21 to automatically send fire requests to a defined FDC.
• Type 21LFK3: Company commander version. Incorporates support for all AM/PRT-21 radios. Other than that, the system is identical.
• Type 21LFK4: Battalion and above. This version is vehicle mounted, not worn. It incorporates the "Cheetah" vehicle mounted combat computer, which is a black box housing a radiation-hardened version of the commercial GBM Cell microprocessor for data processing, functioning as a server for the battalion command post, which is integrated using fiber-to-the-headquarters (FTTH) external connections on command post carriers. The system has software support for the troposcatter carrier, allowing it to communicate non-line-of-sight to units whose positions are known, as well as microwave point-to-point communication, SATCOM, omnidirectional radio commo, and IPv4 networking, within the Corps intranet. The battalion commander and above can also use the Helmet, Command Post, Virtual Display to quite literally sift through data himself.

tl;dr The most ghetto-as-hell Land Warrior/digitization.

Why can't you embrace the Cult of the Digital Warrior and network the enemy to death like a good boy?

Because digitization is more trouble than its worth. Galla's digitization involved buying a handful of new computers, a common software suite to digitize normative planning, a few rifle sights, and a radio family that offers equidistance between push/pull order chains. All to maintain the Human Bee trope of being an unstoppable Headless Communist Zombie that smothers its opponents in bodies, bullets, and burning wrecks even though you've nuked everything down to the battalion command posts.

[-Celibrae-]

Would you describe Kitten as Land Warrior with a bit of an 80s fetish?

It looks pretty cool. I especially like the battalion-level Air Force 2025 virtual node.

I'd assume the trouble with digitisation is securing the wireless communications networks that it depends on. Which is why I think you try to stick to fibre optics?

[Laritaia]

Would you describe Kat as a Mushroom with a bit of an 80s fetish?

fixed that for you

[Gallia-]

Would you describe Kitten as Land Warrior with a bit of an 80s fetish?

I would describe it as a continually evolving attempt to divorce myself from the "American liability mindset" that has evolved to create constant position location reporting, poor emissions discipline, and a lack of personal initiative in Western armies in general that paralyzes them when they lack their precious radio communications because officers are not trained to think for themselves. Or rather, officers are trained to be told nothing and "wing it" in tactical scale, which necessitates holding a tight leash by corps and division commanders on their maneuver battalions, both of which go back to liability and accountability.

I'm still trying to figure out if the USSR would have had anything similar to Position Location Reporting System or FBCB2, philosophically. Both of these things are useful computer items, but their primary purposes are to account for troops in highly detailed corps planning (which is down to battalion level in Desert Storm) so if ~Something Happens~ then they will know who to sentence to life in prison for blowing up a village. I'm not sure the USSR would have any need for accurate friendly position location reporting, since it inevitably requires constant emission and data transmission that can be intercepted, decrypted, and used for the enemy's benefit.

OTOH, transmission of enemy locations is vital, and FBCB2 allows for Red Force Tracking as well, by its very nature as a method of "tracking people". So I'm not sure what the major differences would be, since it seems to be "none" except that "Blue Force Tracking" would be rare for the Gallan military. You'd get a map downloaded to your computer that shows the commander's plan of action in a general sketch, and each successive command (division, regiment, battalion, so on) would modify their specific sector or assigned plan as necessary, and push it down their own chain of command to the lieutenant?

That's what I'm imagining right now.

Basically it would compartmentalize the information stream, which is good, since no one would have more than a single piece of the puzzle (although they all have the finished production so that might be bad), everyone would know what they're supposed to do because they've been handed a fairly good sketch of the commander's intent, and they would all have a good idea of what they're going to do about it because they've been told where they're going to work and left to decide how to do it.

It also means the only people you have to talk to are your subordinates and immediate superior. There's no severe need for a horizontal communication chain because you can be assured that you probably wouldn't do much better a job than the people besides you, because their actions are predictable due to the use of normative algorithms.

I'd assume the trouble with digitisation is securing the wireless communications networks that it depends on.

No. It's the "being detected by REC and destroyed by indirect fires" that it invites.

Which is why I think you try to stick to fibre optics?

Fiber optics are probably annoying because they're another item on the budget, are notorious for their inflexibility, and break easily.

Wires would be better but those transmit radiation that can be intercepted. They're also slower and have lower data transmission rate, although I'm not sure it matters much. The fiber optic could be pretty straight forward for feeding video from the rifle sight to the soldier's eyeball, which is why I thought of it first and it sort of stuck so far. I'll change it eventually.

[Austrasien]

Why can't you embrace the Cult of the Digital Warrior and network the enemy to death like a good boy?

Because Austrasia does not see networks as an enabler of operations; it sees the electronic another dimension in which the enemy will be sought and destroyed. Electronic superiority is the first step towards air, land and sea superiority.

Our concept of a future warrior is not a soldier in a network, but a soldier who can destroy the enemies network. We haven't quite got to the point of giving every man organic Electronic/Cyber intelligence and attack capabilities, but they are organic down to the platoon level.

[Gallia-]

Electronic superiority is the first step towards air, land and sea superiority.

That, too.

We haven't quite got to the point of giving every man organic Electronic/Cyber intelligence and attack capabilities, but they are organic down to the platoon level.

What does Austrasien use as platoon level REC, though?

Galla only goes down to company level organically, but with platoon attachments. I've pretty much decided on basically a Barsuk-type GSR, Wolfhound ESM system, and a Headlamp-style mmW ESM system for the company-level REC. No offensive attack systems, unless there's something missing in my pantheon so far, like a cybernetic attack system or microwave jammer for counter-UAS. I figure that those goofy gun delivered jamming shells and the M16 should be adequate for those last two things though.

I'm still sort of interested in JAMPACK though, TBH. ):

Possibly have it as a remote jammer or something.

Also:



Hello sir I heard you like individual sensor networks and cyber attacks.