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Infantry Discussion Thread 10: Shovel Edition [NO FWORDS]

A place to put national factbooks, embassy exchanges, and other information regarding the nations of the world. [In character]

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Fryske Ryk
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Postby Fryske Ryk » Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:50 pm

It might also be relevant to point out that Galla, although bigger than almost all its foes and possessing the requisite Mass for a USSR-expy, never enjoyed the Endless Offensive of post-Kursk Soviet Union, so that might have some pretty serious effects on how it thinks it should fight. While it probably does possess enough men to simply bolster every defense against enemy attack with enough tanks and troops to stop it cold, it doesn't think or know this. So it's a bit paranoid that it might end up getting crucified by a lack of combat power in some area where it has been duped, which results in a kind of...skittishness? It's not as willing as the Soviets to throw away combat formations, but it's not as strung out as the Western Allies in terms of lacking combat power either.

It basically suffers from a terminal "other side of the hill" syndrome, I think?

It also never experienced the massive technological fetish that the USA did in the 1990s (or rather, the 19XX?), when it realized it could beat up the Third World with 1980s electronics, and extrapolated this into the future eternally. So it's skeptical of electronics in general (which is partially why it's prone to recycling and reusing old technics), but theoretically its "WW2" experiences should match up reasonably well with the Western Allies' rather than the Soviets, but by that point the concepts of standard operating procedure and "school solutions" had been ingrained in the Gallan military for half a millennium, so it would have resembled the post-war Soviet system the closest?

Really, it doesn't seem that Galla fits any IRL archetypes very well. It can be shoehorned into the American archetype for its industry and mass production through tooling, but it can also be shoehorned into the Soviet archetype for its love of standard operating procedures and school solutions, but it fits neither because both of these are results of centuries of cultivating a fetishization with standard practice dating to the middle ages.

The closest I can think of to describe Galla is "massproductionocracy". Like Venice meets Carthage. A big, filthy rich trade empire that sits at the hub of world commerce and soaks up money to turn into factories or something.

-Celibrae- wrote:Integrated/future soldier systems.

What does your nation use?


I think Frisia will have something that is more or less a straight rip of IdZ with some colonial air-mechanization thrown in for good measure. Everything bad, Frisia does. It gets away with it too. I still sort of need to flesh it out, though. I only have its borders and a partial smattering of its climate recorded, and there's very little I know (read: made up my mind about) about its history or what/how it thinks about things. I haven't worked out to what extent Frisia relies on radio yet, but it probably is "a lot", although I don't know the reason for this yet.
Last edited by Fryske Ryk on Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Rhodesialund
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Postby Rhodesialund » Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:17 pm

-Celibrae- wrote:Integrated/future soldier systems.

What does your nation use?

I'm currently following the British (budget) route of ditching the 'integrated' part in favour of AA battery powered thermal sights and not much else.

I must admit, I do like the idea of a crate of Duracell 8-packs being airlifted to the frontline.

Oh, and some periscopes and cameras and stuff.


I/FSS systems are pretty much already in use. Every rifle squad has a Drone Operator using a highly modified off-the-shelf drone commonly found available to consumers. Every Drone Rifleman has two hand-portable drones that are set to autonomous hover at a certain height to provide overwatch and constantly follows the squad.

Drone Rifleman has plenty of spare batteries. Although this role is only found in Mechanized units. Light Infantry has a more dedicated UAV system providing overwatch. It's maintained by a company attached to the MEUs.
Last edited by Rhodesialund on Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Greater United American Republics
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Postby Greater United American Republics » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:38 pm

Gallia- wrote:
Shouldn't Fallout-verse be onto like W6969 or something>



Probably
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Gallia-
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Postby Gallia- » Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:14 pm

I think I'm slowly coming to a realization that the tools of a neo-USSR and the United States in the digital/cyber age would look superficially similar, but it's more how these tools are used than what they're built from.

FBCB2 seems to be almost agnostic to whether it's used by a network-centric radio army or a Soviet-style normative army, since it just reports positions and collects data. It's a sketchpad for information. The actual software is flexible enough to fulfill either task, and with a normative database and lookup table for algorithms it becomes something entirely different (although this is arguably a minor addition), that can afford the Soviet sort of normative driven army to do things without needing to coordinate with neighbouring units because they're all using the same tools to plan. If the guy on the left is getting murdered, pretty much anyone else would have been murdered because they probably would have followed the same book, so the coordination is unnecessary between units of the same level. 3d Battalion doesn't need to talk to 2nd Battalion, but both need to talk to HQ Company, 69th Armor Regiment.

Meanwhile in the US Army, if the guy on the left is getting murdered, you really don't know what the fuck is happening because you need to pay attention to the morass of information he is generating from his position location reports and his own individual skill. Both of those are pretty serious flaws that can be easily exploited by a high-tech foe with adequate REC, and both of them are flaws that don't really exist in the normative system. NCW also generates a lot of radio and informational noise that has to be filtered through the brains of the people in charge, which could contribute to information overload, which means that an NCW-focused HQ will need to be larger to handle the same amount of "information" as a "textbook"-focused HQ, because the latter shunts computing down to the lowest levels (massively parallel) and uses lookup tables rather than runtime computation.

Basically, the dichotomy between "Western Allies" and "Soviet Union" isn't really "radios vs. computers". It's "horizontal coordination" vs. "vertical coordination"? So things like FCS and NCW were basically about furthering the distance between "textbook school solutions" with "unblinking panopticon gaze"? But ultimately the same physical, tangible objects of FCS/NCW would be useful for "textbook school solutions" because they can equally be used to pull up the slack in the vertical command chain? That is, not slack in the sense of greater control by the commander, but in terms of time spent planning and executing operations.

Where NCW uses its radios to try to create a web of connections that ensures that at least most of the combat force can communicate with itself to make up for the lack of inherent coordination offered by textbook solutions (thus, ground commanders have to communicate with each to make sure everyone is on the same page, as combat evolves), the "textbook" mentality offers an inherent "same page" understanding for ground troops that only requires transmission of the most basic ideas and concepts to be applied at increasingly lower levels by officers?

And of course, the ulterior reason that NCW has this web of connections is to ensure that the legal accountability of soldiers is maintained all the way to COL Patton Schwarzkopf and LTG Bradley Devers. If the Allies destroy a bus full of refugees, the media wants to know who to stick the blame button on. Meanwhile, the Soviets just don't give a fuck about that because they want their troops to fight and win the war.

I guess this means that mission command's major dichotomy isn't "battle drills" and "winging it" like the memes say, but rather closer to "legal accountability" and "autonomous unit". The dichotomy of "battle drills" and "winging it" is rather inside the latter.

Am I getting closer? Or is this wrong?
Last edited by Gallia- on Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:38 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Puzikas
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Postby Puzikas » Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:37 pm

-Celibrae- wrote:Integrated/future soldier systems.

What does your nation use?

I'm currently following the British (budget) route of ditching the 'integrated' part in favour of AA battery powered thermal sights and not much else.

I must admit, I do like the idea of a crate of Duracell 8-packs being airlifted to the frontline.

Oh, and some periscopes and cameras and stuff.



Dniegua uses the Sködar 21 and Marine 21 systems.

The Sködar 21 is a multi-system infantry kit, with individual parts being individually selected and intergraded into the system as a whole.
The individual soldiers kit (ITR) is the most basic level of equipment issued to each infantryman to reach minimum equipage for Sködar 21. This kit includes:
-Korpespskydd m/8-11. A multi-level variable ballistics vest, capable of adjusting from NIJ level II to up to NIJ level IV. Differs from the 08 with the intergraded of MOLLE equipment and a pouch for hydration bladder.
-Stridsväst m/08. Load bearing and webbing equipment with spots for two flairs, two grenades, six rifle magazines, a rear pouch for 100 rounds of belted ammunition, a battery pack, and two side pouches
-Faldkermpundhelm m/02B. A Kevlar and steel helmet with intergraded short range communications and plates for mounting of flashlight or night vision/image intensifing equipment. Protects against a 1.7 gram projectiles moving up to 675m/s.
-AG m/4G Rifle. A 5.65x48mm infantry rifle with powered rails in the 12 o'clock position, with fore end rails in the 3, 6, and 9oclock. An update to the previous TrGv m/94 series infantry rifle, this rifle removes the previous "0" setting for rifle grenades.
-Bildföizstärkanre GN m/1³. Image intensifiers belding I² and IR abilities. Still uncommon, more common are the generation III Bildföizstärkanre GR M/01-08.
-Rosniyföizstärkoptikikh CV m/01. 3.4x32mm magnified combat optic with bullet drop compensator for 200, 300, and 400 meters, and built in range finder. Issued with Bildföizstärkanremagnät GR/GN m/08 night/thermal vision clip on.
-Bildföizstärkanreoptikikh CV m/10. Modern issued thermal optic offering a 3.4x optical zoom with ability to identify man size targets at 600m. These scopes connect to the Geznaydöizstärkenoptikikh EN m/10 remove monocular to allow the troop to fore from behind cover, or to be used for observation.

The Marine 21 system is basically the same but they have the "V" variation of everything which is for MUHREENS.
Also usually it's got a different rust proofing on it to conform to the Navy's standards.

I'll work on that more when I'm not swamped probably.

The Skandar confederacy's only two concrete implements of FURURWAR are the AEkMG m/21 and AFGv m/5e, which mount the Swarovski Teknaoptik m/58 Skidvankanvönurmstärkoptik and the Swarovski Teknaoptik PHASKALT targeting and programming scope.
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Gallia-
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Postby Gallia- » Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:30 am

Oh right I forgot to list the individual components of Kitten.

  • Skyddshjalm m/90 - The 2B6M helmet is the protective headgear of the Kitten ensemble. It is constructed of UHMWPE fiber and weighs approximately 3 lbs, which is 85% the weight of the externally identical 2B6 Kevlar helmet. The helmet provides a minimum of v50 protection against a Type 2Bα* fragment simulating projectile traveling at ~700 m/s (2,300 ft/s); v50 protection against a Type 2Bγ** FSP traveling at ~530 m/s (1,740 ft/s), and v10 protection against a 124 gr, .355" (9x19mm) caliber bullet traveling at ~350 m/s (1,150 ft/s). The 2B6M helmet has a comprehensive strap/support system, in contrast to the austere chinstrap of the 2B6, and comes with an optional padding kit for improved comfort. The helmet can incorporate a steel clamp which can accept night optical devices, and a sliding rail used for the Kitten head-mounted display.
  • Skyddshjalm m/90V - The combat vehicle crewman version of the Sh90. The 2B7M1 incorporates a UHMWPE fiber shell, which provides the same level of protection as the Sh90 Infantry/Parachutists' helmet. The 2B7M1 incorporates a suspension system/cap which holds a vehicle intercom/headset that muffles sound and provides for clear voice communication between crewmen of armored vehicles. A helmet mounted display can be added to the side of the suspension system/cap, which allows tank commanders to view out of their independent sights, view the Charlotte armored fighting vehicle protection system, or observe from another camera of the vehicle.
  • Skyddsvast m/90 "Linebacker" - The 2B9 is a soft armor fragmentation protective vest issued to ground troops. It is constructed of UHMWPE fiber and weighs 6.5 lbs, slightly less than the Sv90T. It provides the same level of protection against fragments the .355" caliber pistol cartridge as the Sh90 and Sh90V, however it affords greater protection overall from these threats, and v10 protection against a 124 gr, .356" (9x23mm) caliber bullet traveling at ~425 m/s (1,400 ft/s). The 2B9 is primarily issued to mechanized infantry.
    • Skyddsvast m/90T "Goalkeeper" - The 2B10 is a modular soft/hard armor protective vest issued to ground troops. It is constructed of the same fiber weave as the Sv90, although it is thicker, and weighs about 8 lbs empty. The vest has multiple hit protection against pistol-caliber small arms. The vest has two pockets for small arms protective inserts, which can stop up to and including a .308" patron m/39 armour-piercing cartridge (.30-06 M2 AP) round. The vest can incorporate deltoid, crotch, and side protection, which brings the total weight up to about 20 lbs.
    • Skyddsvast m/90V "Shortstop" - The 2B11 is a soft armor undergarment worn by combat vehicle crewmen. It provides the same level ballistic protection as the Linebacker, constructed the same, but weighs about 5 lbs due to its shorter cut (it protects about half as much of the torso as the Sv90L) and tighter fit. The vest is, essentially, a no-frills cover with a velcro and elastic cummerbund, designed to mate a pair of ballistic panels together. It is issued to contingency troops on an as-needed basis.
    • Skyddsvast m/90L "Halfback" - The 2B12 "Halfback" is a small arms protective body armour system, incorporating a frontal plate (smaller than Sv90T's), and constructed similar to the Sv90, with equivalent protective qualities. It weighs about 7 lbs empty, and about 10 lbs with the plate. The vest issued to paratroopers and airborne infantry, who are not mechanized and thus may require a vest capable of stopping small arms fire.
  • Stridsvast m/90 - The Stv90, in the 2C3M1 variant, incorporates capacity for up to six magazines of ammunition organically, in four pockets. The soldier can carry two fragmentation grenades, two compass/bandage pouch-sized pockets on the shoulder pads, and a (not-shown) modular waist belt that allows the soldier to attach things such as first aid kits, entrenching tools, and an assault pack, among other things. The 2C3M1 is designated the "Electronic Battle Vest" of the Kitten system, and includes a variety of mesh loops for running wire cables through to connect the various systems of the Kitten subsystem, a side mounted pocket for the Lynx Combat Computer, and another pocket for the Kitten Battery Subsystem.
  • Automatkarbin m/58 rifle - The Ak58 is the standard assault rifle of the Gallan Army, chambered in .223 Gallan (5.56x45mm). It is a gas operated, air cooled, lightweight, automatic weapon, fed from a 30-round magazine, and made of aluminum and plastic. The Kitten ensemble adds the large AM/PSK-10 I2/FLIR sight to the rifle, which can be integrated with the helmet-mounted display or AM/PSS-7D for picture-in-picture "point shooting" capability.
  • Automatkarbin m/95 assault rifle - The Ak95 is a lightweight, caseless automatic rifle, made primarily of plastics, and is unique for being sealed against the external environment. It resembles the Frisian Gw88 assault rifle, although it is newer and far more conventional in design, incorporating a detachable magazine and single chamber. It is chambered for the .195" Gallan HAK (Caseless Automatic Rifle). The high rate of fire of the Ak95 allows the infantryman to hit targets at long ranges more accurately under combat stress. With the Kitten ensemble, the Ak95 receives the same digital sights as the Ak58. The rifle features powered adapters, fed by a battery in the pistol grip.
  • Automatkarbin m/21 - The Ak21 is a flechette firing automatic rifle, made primarily of aluminum and plastic, fed by a 30-round detachable box magazine. Its smoothbore barrel imparts no spin onto the flechette, which is fin-stabilized, and ensures that it is accurate during flight. The .070 Gallan cartridge is compatible with existing .223 Gallan magazines, although these magazines must be modified so they can fit into the Ak21. Generally, this involves a "return, convert, exchange" program, where units will turn in their .223 magazines to be converted to .070 magazines. The rifle is externally identical to the Ak58.
  • I'll finish this later I guess... :/

*The Type 2Bα is a cylindrical armor test projectile. It is constructed of cold-rolled steel, the specifications are a weight of 1.25±0.025 grams and a hardness of BHN 270±20.
*The Type 2Bγ is identical in shape and composition to the rest of the 2B series FSPs. It has a weight of 2.75±0.025 grams and a hardness of BHN 300±10.
Last edited by Gallia- on Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:35 am, edited 6 times in total.

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Yes Im Biop
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Postby Yes Im Biop » Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:32 am

-Celibrae- wrote:Integrated/future soldier systems.

What does your nation use?

I'm currently following the British (budget) route of ditching the 'integrated' part in favour of AA battery powered thermal sights and not much else.

I must admit, I do like the idea of a crate of Duracell 8-packs being airlifted to the frontline.

Oh, and some periscopes and cameras and stuff.


Exo armor, nini and full sized drones, panzerhund (not yet but maybe)
A good AI controller for logistics (WHich is good cause my logistics would drive anyone remotely sane, insane!), Humans and Dragons are so distractible and package it all together with a neat little HUD.
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Austrasien
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Postby Austrasien » Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:26 am

Gallia- wrote:What does Austrasien use as platoon level REC, though?

Galla only goes down to company level organically, but with platoon attachments. I've pretty much decided on basically a Barsuk-type GSR, Wolfhound ESM system, and a Headlamp-style mmW ESM system for the company-level REC. No offensive attack systems, unless there's something missing in my pantheon so far, like a cybernetic attack system or microwave jammer for counter-UAS. I figure that those goofy gun delivered jamming shells and the M16 should be adequate for those last two things though.

I'm still sort of interested in JAMPACK though, TBH. ):


Usually, a direction finder which is bolted to a roof of one of the platoons tanks or IFVs. This functions more or less automatically and provides the platoon with the direction and classification of any radios or data links it detects.

A backpack kit that can be worn by a member of the command squad but it is naturally less capable.
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Puzikas
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Postby Puzikas » Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:31 am

E x p a n d
x
p
a
n
d
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Austrasien
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Postby Austrasien » Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:22 am

It hears the radio. It compares what it records to a library of known signals and either identifies the specific emitter type or at least classifies it. The contact is then reported to the operator as a type and direction, accurate to within a few degrees.

This information serves two purposes: First, it gives the platoon a degree of situational awareness of things which are normally invisible. Radio signals are likely to be the first indicator the platoon has stumbled into an ambush, is about to make contact with a hostile column, or that a UAV is operating nearby. Second, it can be used to trigger the employment of a cyber weapon if there is one available which is applicable to the threat. Though a platoon would not have an organic cyber specialist they can still make use of "script kiddie" type cyber weapons that don't require any specialized knowledge. Cyber weapons, unlike jammers, don't require specialised hardware to employ beyond a transmitter which can also interface with the target.
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Kassaran
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Postby Kassaran » Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:26 am

Just have everyone be networked so you can have hackers back home send up the big guns... then everyone can go back home and eat pizza.

(I'm kidding here, I hope this is obvious.)
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Postby Yes Im Biop » Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:00 am

Kassaran wrote:Just have everyone be networked so you can have hackers back home send up the big guns... then everyone can go back home and eat pizza.

(I'm kidding here, I hope this is obvious.)


Stop the hax!
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Celitannia
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Postby Celitannia » Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:50 am

Celitannia employs the Hercules Integrated Soldier System (HISS), incorporating a modular tactical vest, under which is worn a lightweight webbing which contains the electronic systems. In terms of weapons sights, the STAT thermal sight is issued to team leaders and machine gunners armed with the L85A2 and L110A3 respectively, whilst the grenadier is issued with the older image intensified CWS. Both sights have 4x magnification. The larger CWS2 offers 6x magnification and is issued to the designated marksman. All members of the fireteam also receive the ELCAN Specter OS4X Lightweight Day Sight

The concept is that while thermal imagers are superior in terms of detection and can operate without any ambient light, intensified scopes are better at identifying small detail. So I operate both. Plus, it saves money on buying twice as many new thermal sights.

Night vision is a mix of AN/PVS-14 and AN/PSQ-20 clipped on to this helmet, depending on how high-priority the unit is. It's likely that the AN/PSQ-20 would be penny packeted in all but special operations units.

I like the idea of clip-on thermal imagers too but I'm not sure where'd they'd fit in. Furthermore Austrasien's platoon electronic warfare is a good meme and I want it too. Can I steal your meme, please?

Edit: In the future, the collection of sights might be replaced by the OS4X in conjunction with a clip-on thermal unit, which would communicate with the AN/PSQ-20 by wire or fiberoptics, perhaps complemented by some handheld image intensified scopes.
Last edited by Celitannia on Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Nirvash Type TheEND » Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:02 am

-Celibrae- wrote:Integrated/future soldier systems.

What does your nation use?

Iphones in otterboxes.

That's basically all you really need on the BATTLEFIELD OF TOMORROWTM. Unless user-device interfacing undergoes a fundamental change it's going to be increasingly smaller Iphones forever.
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Postby Nirvash Type TheEND » Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:04 am

Celitannia wrote:Celitannia employs the Hercules Integrated Soldier System (HISS), incorporating a modular tactical vest, under which is worn a lightweight webbing which contains the electronic systems. In terms of weapons sights, the STAT thermal sight is issued to team leaders and machine gunners armed with the L85A2 and L110A3 respectively, whilst the grenadier is issued with the older image intensified CWS. Both sights have 4x magnification. The larger CWS2 offers 6x magnification and is issued to the designated marksman. All members of the fireteam also receive the ELCAN Specter OS4X Lightweight Day Sight

The concept is that while thermal imagers are superior in terms of detection and can operate without any ambient light, intensified scopes are better at identifying small detail. So I operate both. Plus, it saves money on buying twice as many new thermal sights.

Night vision is a mix of AN/PVS-14 and AN/PSQ-20 clipped on to this helmet, depending on how high-priority the unit is. It's likely that the AN/PVS-20 would be penny packeted in all but special operations units.

I like the idea of clip-on thermal imagers too but I'm not sure where'd they'd fit in. Furthermore Austrasien's platoon electronic warfare is a good meme and I want it too. Can I steal your meme, please?

Man it's going to sting when your $10,000 worth of man and electronics gets obliterated by a $1000 artillery shell.
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Postby Puzikas » Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:29 am

I mean most troops wear about $10K worth of gear already
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Postby Nirvash Type TheEND » Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:34 am

i just threw out a number for the sake of making a point
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Postby Free-Don » Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:38 am

China wears about 7k of gear of which the most expensive is their gun and helmet (or boots if their helmet is surplus steel).

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Postby Purpelia » Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:41 am

Speaking of that. Just how are night vision sights and optics and stuff issued to troops anyway? I know I heard somewhere that you can't just goggles and a regular optic and expect it to work like in video games. So just what is done? Do troops get goggles? Do they get some sort of night sight that they than swap onto their rifles? Or is it like just the regular optic but with some sort of internal illumination I keep hearing about? This is all assuming an army where budgets are not a concern like america or NS armies of course.
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Postby Laywenrania » Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:43 am

Purpelia wrote:Speaking of that. Just how are night vision sights and optics and stuff issued to troops anyway? I know I heard somewhere that you can't just goggles and a regular optic and expect it to work like in video games. So just what is done? Do troops get goggles? Do they get some sort of night sight that they than swap onto their rifles? Or is it like just the regular optic but with some sort of internal illumination I keep hearing about? This is all assuming an army where budgets are not a concern like america or NS armies of course.

Depends on the army I guess.
IIRC japanese soldiers had to buy their own optics, etc.
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Postby Sevvania » Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:03 am

Nirvash Type TheEND wrote:i just threw out a number for the sake of making a point

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Purpelia
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Postby Purpelia » Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:05 am

Laywenrania wrote:
Purpelia wrote:Speaking of that. Just how are night vision sights and optics and stuff issued to troops anyway? I know I heard somewhere that you can't just goggles and a regular optic and expect it to work like in video games. So just what is done? Do troops get goggles? Do they get some sort of night sight that they than swap onto their rifles? Or is it like just the regular optic but with some sort of internal illumination I keep hearing about? This is all assuming an army where budgets are not a concern like america or NS armies of course.

Depends on the army I guess.
IIRC japanese soldiers had to buy their own optics, etc.

I guess I should rephrase my question.

1. What kind of night vision equipment is out there?
2. How does it interact?
3. What if anything should a modern nation with lots of money to spend do about all this?
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Free-Don
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Postby Free-Don » Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:09 am

Purpelia wrote:Speaking of that. Just how are night vision sights and optics and stuff issued to troops anyway? I know I heard somewhere that you can't just goggles and a regular optic and expect it to work like in video games. So just what is done? Do troops get goggles? Do they get some sort of night sight that they than swap onto their rifles? Or is it like just the regular optic but with some sort of internal illumination I keep hearing about? This is all assuming an army where budgets are not a concern like america or NS armies of course.


Night vision can be split between infrared and light/image intensifying. Both require optics to be less bright and some require spacing adjustments. For some optics "night vision mode" has it's own button or setting but for most it's just turning down the brightness as much as long so you aren't staring at a giant, flashing, or vibrating blob.

Purpelia wrote:1. What kind of night vision equipment is out there?
2. How does it interact?
3. What if anything should a modern nation with lots of money to spend do about all this?


1. Thermal, light amplifiying/image intesifying, and various types of infared detecting stuff.
2. Interacts well with everything just need to avoid problems with glare, extreme brightness, and weird spacing.
3. Just make optics with a super low setting, less reflective glass, lens protectors, make the night vision not burn out with a , etc.

My experience with night vision in airsoft is limited to a night vision monocular thing duct taped to my helmet, but ingeneral I prefer just ironsights with some bright paint or glow in the dark paint.
Last edited by Free-Don on Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:24 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Postby Celitannia » Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:15 am

There are night vision sights, monocles and goggles. They employ image intensifiers which convert photons into electrons and the back into photons again.

There are thermal sights and monocles. They employ thermographic cameras which detect infrared rather than visible light.

Thermal systems have the advantage of anything hot appearing bright and very visible, and require absolutely no ambient light to function. They are better at detecting soldiers and vehicles than night vision systems. Unfortunately they also suffer from a lack of detail.

Night vision systems simply enhance the ambient light reflected by objects to allow one to see in the dark. They offer a more 'real' representation of what you're looking at.

Systems like AN/PSQ-20 fuse both.

The United States is also looking to use a clip-on system which turns a day optic like an ACOG into a thermal sight.
Last edited by Celitannia on Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:20 am, edited 2 times in total.
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The Akasha Colony
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Postby The Akasha Colony » Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:32 am

Nirvash Type TheEND wrote:i just threw out a number for the sake of making a point


And what is that point? That troops should be equipped like ISIS fighters on the off chance they get killed and might risk some mildly expensive equipment?

Purpelia wrote:I guess I should rephrase my question.

1. What kind of night vision equipment is out there?
2. How does it interact?
3. What if anything should a modern nation with lots of money to spend do about all this?


1. The two main types are infrared and image intensification. IR is the better technology in general because it provides some very useful information for distinguishing targets but it is also the more expensive one. It's not actually "heat vision" in that "hot things" don't automatically appear brighter in an image, but a full explanation is really complicated because it depends on band (SWIR/MWIR/LWIR). For one, air appears extremely "cold" in IR bands, even extremely "hot" air like that from, say, a tank exhaust.

Image intensification is the conventional "night vision" most people think of, which amplifies an image based on a very limited amount of light. Modern image intensification sights are gated and have electronic filters so they don't blind the user at the first hint of a bright light, unlike movies. They're also simpler and cheaper and have some interesting properties of their own in regard to discriminating between natural flora and artificial flora, such as between natural plants and, say, camouflage netting.

There is sort of a third, which is to just use a really big conventional image sensor that can gather more light without the use of an image intensifier and can still generate a useful picture, but these generally require more light than an image intensifier and aren't useful to the same minimum light levels as an image intensifier. Their images can also get quite noisy at very low light levels. But they can provide limited color vision.

2. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this.

3. Buy both. The US Army wants to roll out combined image intensification/IR monocles as widely as it can, and then add a second sight to the gun itself which can project its image onto part of the screen of the helmet-mounted unit and thus allow troops to see where their gun is pointed at all times. Most future soldier systems have tried to integrate some form of this point-and-shoot capability and have the goal of rolling out night sights of some form as widely as the budget allows.
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