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Infantry Discussion Thread 10: Shovel Edition [NO FWORDS]

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Kazarogkai
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Founded: Jan 27, 2012
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Kazarogkai » Sat May 27, 2017 5:11 pm

Fordorsia wrote:I do not understand please be more relatable


I believe he's referencing the fact that the weapon, If i'am correct, is called a Fagot. This is the thing I think he is talking about:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K111_Fagot
Last edited by Kazarogkai on Sat May 27, 2017 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Rhodesialund
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Ex-Nation

Postby Rhodesialund » Sat May 27, 2017 8:13 pm

Kazarogkai wrote:
Fordorsia wrote:I do not understand please be more relatable


I believe he's referencing the fact that the weapon, If i'am correct, is called a Fagot. This is the thing I think he is talking about:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K111_Fagot


Nice job shitting on the party. :rofl:
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Puzikas
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Puzikas » Sat May 27, 2017 10:56 pm

Fun ist verboden
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Fordorsia
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Founded: Oct 04, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Fordorsia » Sun May 28, 2017 5:10 am

[NO FAGOTS]

inb4 homophobia charge even tho I love dick
Last edited by Fordorsia on Sun May 28, 2017 5:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Crookfur wrote:Speak for yourself, Crookfur infantry enjoy the sheer uber high speed low drag operator nature of their tactical woad

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Federated Kingdom of Prussia
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Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Federated Kingdom of Prussia » Sun May 28, 2017 8:02 am

Puzikas wrote:That's a broad question.

More narrow: why did generals assume that attacking infantry had a huge advantage? I remember reading a pdf document that gave some pretty good reasons why the bayonet was thought to be very important in infantry combat, but I can't remember those reasons.

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Puzikas
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Puzikas » Sun May 28, 2017 8:49 am

Because at no point in history had the opposite been true

The only time attacking infantry didn't have the advantage against whatever was in it's way was in the cases of fortresses, which were smashed by artillery and THEN attacked, or just encircled and starved.

When you have a staff of senior officers who have trained to fight a totally different war and not kept Pace with technology these things happen. The Russo-Japan war showcased what was to come, and had more people paid attention to it then world war I might have looked a bit different.

Puzikas wrote:
-There was a very prevalent thought that the maximum range of a cartridge was vastly important. Not effectove, but maximum, fired from any angle in ideal conditions in which the termination of the projectiles flight path has reached the end of that which is possible under all physical constraints.
The Vickers had an effective direct fire range of about 1000m for point and about 2200m for area sized targets, but the Vickers and Enfeilds both had MAXIMUM ranges of some 4,800 yards.
Maj. Gen. (Then Colonel IIRC) Hatcher, US Ordinance made the US change its ENTIRE SERVICE CARTRIDGE because he felt the maximum range was shit; this netted us the glorious .30-06 but really drives hone how important that volly fire idea was to many nations.

-Machine Guns were understood by mostly colonial Troops and commanders; the guys who REALLY knew their abilities were all those Infantry NCOs and officers who fought in colonial wars. You know who loved Machine Guns?
Paul Von Lettow-Vorbeck, General of the German African Schutztruppe. He was an enormously effective general for many reasons, and Machine Guns are not cheif among these, but his tactical use of the German MG-08 and captured British Vickers and Lewis guns certainly showcased an understanding of how to truely vital they are to Infantry operations.
In addition, I have more information on the cavalry story.

A Non-Commisioned officer named Edward Spears, of the 11th Hussars, was placed in command of the Machine Gun section. He was told to "put his tired contraptions (the guns) to good use" during exercise. With that goal in mind, he strategically placed his Vickers on a position with excellent view of the Brigade undergoing manuvers, set up Ines of retreat and containment, and fired away for ten minutes.
At the formation.
No one paid him any mind. He, having fired enough ammunition to kill all 2,000 men of the bridage and its horses at least twice over, approached the commander and declared jubilantly, "I say, You are all dead, sir!"

To which the Brigade commander responded:

Brigade General Elan, The embodiment of all things stereotypically European wrote:Never, never have I seen a lack of Cavalry spirit more blatantly displayed. Here is a young Cavalry officer who has the impertinence to say that the Infantry weapons, that he is so inappropriately carting about, has wiped out the first cavalry Brigade, the finest mounted force in Europe. Get off your horse sir, and hand it over and walk back to the barracks, the proper form of locomotion for you.



Because war is hell, but prepping for war is hellish.
Last edited by Puzikas on Sun May 28, 2017 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Federated Kingdom of Prussia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Federated Kingdom of Prussia » Sun May 28, 2017 9:18 am

Was re-reading those responses from the earlier thread. So if the bayonet's 'reach gap' was seriously considered to be a problem in infantry combat, how quickly did shorter weapons like shovels and fighting knives overtake the bayonet?

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Austrasien
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Austrasien » Sun May 28, 2017 10:07 am

Federated Kingdom of Prussia wrote:Was re-reading those responses from the earlier thread. So if the bayonet's 'reach gap' was seriously considered to be a problem in infantry combat, how quickly did shorter weapons like shovels and fighting knives overtake the bayonet?


They didn't.
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Theodosiya
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Theodosiya » Sun May 28, 2017 10:10 am

Is it a good idea to use ammo belts for LMG/IAR? (In sense of open, not in mags or canvas, and wrapped around body.)
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Fordorsia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Fordorsia » Sun May 28, 2017 10:22 am

Theodosiya wrote:Is it a good idea to use ammo belts for LMG/IAR? (In sense of open, not in mags or canvas, and wrapped around body.)


Wrapping it around the gun will just jam it when the belt catches on something. Just let it all hang out when you shoulder it. It's not ideal but it will work unless the belt is full of shit.
Pro: Swords
Anti: Guns

San-Silvacian wrote:Forgot to take off my Rhodie shorts when I went to sleep.
Woke up in bitches and enemy combatants.

Crookfur wrote:Speak for yourself, Crookfur infantry enjoy the sheer uber high speed low drag operator nature of their tactical woad

Spreewerke wrote:One of our employees ate a raw kidney and a raw liver and the only powers he gained was the ability to summon a massive hospital bill.

Premislyd wrote:This is probably the best thing somebody has ever spammed.

Puzikas wrote:That joke was so dark it has to smile to be seen at night.

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Theodosiya
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Postby Theodosiya » Sun May 28, 2017 10:40 am

That's why i say wrap around body, Rambo style.
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Laritaia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Laritaia » Sun May 28, 2017 11:16 am

that was just a way of carrying the ammo, it wasn't actually fed into the gun liek that

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The Akasha Colony
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Akasha Colony » Sun May 28, 2017 12:31 pm

Theodosiya wrote:Is it a good idea to use ammo belts for LMG/IAR? (In sense of open, not in mags or canvas, and wrapped around body.)


Belts wrapped around the body was just a way to carry spare rounds. It wouldn't be carried like that when it's fed into the gun because it'll just catch on something and jam. When being fed, it'd either be left to hang on its own or ideally in a magazine or canvas pouch, because this prevents it from catching on anything.
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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Sun May 28, 2017 1:29 pm

Time for Art Alphin again?

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Puzikas
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Puzikas » Sun May 28, 2017 2:52 pm

That's basically false tho
I mean yeah they did mostly but troops totally just cary loose belts across the shoulders or neck because it's e a s y
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Gallia-
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Gallia- » Sun May 28, 2017 2:56 pm

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Time for Art Alphin again?


Image

Image

Image

i mean

it's not like it's unknown for art alphin to be wrong

he basically scammed three towns of money or w/e

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-Square
Last edited by Gallia- on Sun May 28, 2017 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Free-Don
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Ex-Nation

Postby Free-Don » Sun May 28, 2017 4:49 pm

Theodosiya wrote:Is it a good idea to use ammo belts for LMG/IAR? (In sense of open, not in mags or canvas, and wrapped around body.)

It makes sense to carry ammo in belt for belt-fed weapons as carrying ammo around the body is an easy way to distribute weight and have ammo easily accessible for loading when you can't be supplied ammo carriers, slings, etc.

But when we're talking about IARs which are mostly box magazine feed weapons there aren't any real reason to. You might as well just stick the bullets stripper clips and stuff it all into a cheap bandoleer.

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Husseinarti
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Husseinarti » Sun May 28, 2017 6:40 pm

We were told you can carry belts like that, however you have to kind of be careful with it if you were to drop it into dirt or w/e you can get jams from that.
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Gallia-
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Gallia- » Sun May 28, 2017 6:42 pm

Husseinarti wrote:We were told you can carry belts like that, however you have to kind of be careful with it if you were to drop it into dirt or w/e you can get jams from that.


tl;dr dont bayonet assault course like this

oh wait moderns

rip on the battlefields of tomorrow when they confront water cooled machine guns and entrenched light infantry

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Rhodesialund
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Founded: Nov 24, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Rhodesialund » Sun May 28, 2017 6:46 pm

Gallia- wrote:
Husseinarti wrote:We were told you can carry belts like that, however you have to kind of be careful with it if you were to drop it into dirt or w/e you can get jams from that.


tl;dr dont bayonet assault course like this

oh wait moderns

rip on the battlefields of tomorrow when they confront water cooled machine guns and entrenched light infantry


We are coming full circle, aren't we?
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Gallia-
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Gallia- » Sun May 28, 2017 6:49 pm

Not in the slightest unless you're only looking at things superficially.

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Rhodesialund
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Ex-Nation

Postby Rhodesialund » Sun May 28, 2017 7:19 pm

Gallia- wrote:Not in the slightest unless you're only looking at things superficially.


I usually look at things superficially for comedic reasons.
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United Dixieland Territories
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby United Dixieland Territories » Sun May 28, 2017 10:26 pm

Upon further review, I have decided to redo all my classical .30 caliber cartridges. In short summary, I got to fire an incredible antique within recent months and Dear Sweet Merciful Lord I must say that .318 Westley Richards is one of the more beautiful cartridges ever graced upon a deeply unworthy humanity.


Image
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Rhodesialund
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Ex-Nation

Postby Rhodesialund » Mon May 29, 2017 6:36 am

United Dixieland Territories wrote:Upon further review, I have decided to redo all my classical .30 caliber cartridges. In short summary, I got to fire an incredible antique within recent months and Dear Sweet Merciful Lord I must say that .318 Westley Richards is one of the more beautiful cartridges ever graced upon a deeply unworthy humanity.


(Image)



Don't you mean the .45-70 Government, the only gub'mint people trust? 8)

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United Dixieland Territories
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Postby United Dixieland Territories » Mon May 29, 2017 2:51 pm

Rhodesialund wrote:Don't you mean the .45-70 Government, the only gub'mint people trust? 8)


No, I in fact do not.

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This Nation is mildly FanT in regard to occult countermeasure technologies, but Heavily draws upon the established lore in Deadlands & Deadlands: Hell on Earth.

Custodiat ad Austrum!
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In Dixie's Land, where I was born in,
early on one frosty mornin'.
Look away, look away, look away Dixie Land!

Deus Vult my Friends

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