Infantry Discussion Thread 10: Shovel Edition [NO FWORDS]

[Puzikas]

Fungi don't lend themselves well to human based biological weapons

[Tekeristan]

I've considered dabbling on chemical weapons, at least in the area of something like smell bombs: Thioacetone.
Inconvenience the enemy, but maybe not provoke something like a Sarin gas attack.

[Puzikas]

Chemical weapons like ollifactory agents arent effective as you might think
Ollifactory exhaustion is a human adaptation that allows the brain to ignore smells. If a troop can put his mask on its negated, if a troop isn't able to evacuate or won't because it's not causing irritation besides the assault of the ollifactory nerve it's useless. You need an irritating agent too, which then may prompt retaliation as you now have deployed a blinding or choking agent.

E: the US calls these Malodorants, in Russia we call them ollifactory agents.
Skatole and other agents have use but against an enemy position is not it.
Do we have any overviews of chemical/biological weapons in use in our arsenal of knowledge? Sources, posts, common links?
Or do I need to make one?

[Caneja]

What about Saxitoxin then?

[Husseinarti]

>"Sir we've been hit by gas attack."
>"Get fucking Corps Tubes on the line and have them start lobbing VX and Sarin we're about to get shit on."
>"kek."

[Puzikas]

What about Saxitoxin then?

Has been used in conjunction with Botulinum toxins to create extremely potent CB threats.
Because it's a Na+C blocker it lends itself well to being a paralytic agent while Botulinum causes the Acetylcholine release to seize.
The US designated this chemical agent TZ, when mixed with Clostridium Botulinum it was designated TZX(R).
All stocks were destroyed by 1977.

"Get fucking Corps Tubes on the line and have them start lobbing VX and Sarin we're about to get shit on."

Oh
Bby

[Gallia-]

>"Sir we've been hit by gas attack."
>"Get fucking Corps Tubes on the line and have them start lobbing VX and Sarin we're about to get shit on."
>"kek."

eternal vietnam

carpet bomb entire continents with tear gas

[Ardavia]

would there be any particular problem with issuing a magazine-fed (75-rd drum probably) LMG in 5.56 to one fireteam and a belt-fed GPMG in 7.62x51 to the other team in the section?

or should I just give both teams M249s

[Federated Kingdom of Prussia]

How hard is dealing with fallout in a post-nuclear environment? I've searched forever, but I can't find some old US Army nuclear survival course. There were some easy tips to avoid overexposure to fallout in combat: try not to kick up lots of dust, brush off the ground you are about to lay on if you go prone, keep up to date on the weather patterns, etc.

[Gallia-]

How hard is dealing with fallout in a post-nuclear environment?

Not very.

[Puzikas]

Shell all of Ankara with BZ then send in the thermobarics and FAMs.

Watch as doped out targets loose their minds and their positions are turned to slag among one hell of a pink floyd show.

would there be any particular problem with issuing a magazine-fed (75-rd drum probably) LMG in 5.56 to one fireteam and a belt-fed GPMG in 7.62x51 to the other team in the section?

No besides that the 75rnd drum isn't very space efficient
Usually it means you can have a gud IAR though.

How hard is dealing with fallout in a post-nuclear environment?

Unless you're still being shot at or nuked not very.

[Gallia-]

The main reason that atomic weapons stuff isn't really detailed is because it assumes of obvious [to military men] things. You will be taking wind and atmospheric measurements regardless of the fallout, you will have broomsticks to sweep the floors and chimneys regardless of atomic ashes, and you will have handkerchiefs to blow your nose so they won't need to be handed out by a Radioactives NCO or whatever.

The specific stuff just boils down to making a few more charts, don't snort the grey snow, and dust off your tanks.

[The Grand Prince of Siebenburgen]

Do we have any overviews of chemical/biological weapons in use in our arsenal of knowledge? Sources, posts, common links?
Or do I need to make one?

Pretty good overview here.

EDIT: On an unrelated note, does anybody know anything about the Wieger StG-940 series of assault rifles, designed in East Germany? I'm trying to learn if any were produced that were chambered for 5.45x39mm like wikipedia suggests. However, most of the external links on the wiki page show the the StG-942 model (listed as 5.45x39mm) are in fact just folding-stock, carbine variants still chambered in 5.56x45mm NATO.

[Rhodesialund]

SureFire has the crew weapon light which puts out one gorillion leumens or something
It's role isn't to blind but actual search and illumination
It weighs like 6lb but puts out 4500L, casting a beam to 1600m.
It also has an IR mode.

Flashlights are important for CQC. Something that a lot of people see in special forces is flashlights on rifles but these are usually secondary or entirely for the purpose of CQ. Flashlights are important to blind people at close range, even where NV is present, because at 3-5m, you are probably able to be targeted, but flashlights have a disorientation effect.

Also useful is the IR mode of many of them.

IR lights are the fucking tits. I love them. Although I'm more excited for sensitive light imaging. It's pretty cash money considering that you can see all colors in the middle of the night. Looks just like daytime.

[Austrasien]

Do we have any overviews of chemical/biological weapons in use in our arsenal of knowledge? Sources, posts, common links?

I do but it is behind three hard drives.

[Gallia-]

Literally. In an envelope even.

Keeps the vibration down so the heads don't scratch the platters.

[Kazarogkai]

Chemical weapons like ollifactory agents arent effective as you might think
Ollifactory exhaustion is a human adaptation that allows the brain to ignore smells. If a troop can put his mask on its negated, if a troop isn't able to evacuate or won't because it's not causing irritation besides the assault of the ollifactory nerve it's useless. You need an irritating agent too, which then may prompt retaliation as you now have deployed a blinding or choking agent.

E: the US calls these Malodorants, in Russia we call them ollifactory agents.
Skatole and other agents have use but against an enemy position is not it.
Do we have any overviews of chemical/biological weapons in use in our arsenal of knowledge? Sources, posts, common links?
Or do I need to make one?

So how effective would tear gas be? Most of the ones i've seen usually have smoke so it can double as a smokescreen of sorts.

[Sediczja]

Did a thing. Loosely based on the Winchester 1895 in shape. Would have probably started out with blackpowder round-nosed bullets and then been updated to smokeless powder and then spitzers at some point. Long enough that you can win the push of pike from across the street, or stylishly fire in ranks without trifling inconveniences like "shooting the guy in front of you accidentally somehow".

The Wz. 1887 Infantry Rifle was the standard rifle of the Imperial Sediczjan Army for over 30 years. Replacing a melange of single-shot and repeating rifles, the Wz. 1887 was a bolt-action rifle feeding 7.92x57mm rounds from a fixed five-round magazine, initially hand-loaded with single rounds but quickly updated with a charger guide.

The Wz. 1887 itself was an extremely long rifle, developed at a time when firing in ranks was still considered a tactical possibility. Thus, the rifle's length allowed it to be safely fired from the rear of a two-rank firing line. The Wz. 1887 bayonet was similarly a reflection of the attitudes of the time; its length, combined with that of the rifle, was intended to give the Sediczjan infantryman the reach advantage in close combat. Slings were attached using leather "dog collars" instead of the more common swivels. The Wz. 1887 would serve, largely unchanged save for minor updates, until its ultimate replacement in 1923.

The two most common variants of the Wz. 1887 were the 1887/1890 Dragoon Rifle and the 1887/1890 Cavalry Carbine. The dragoon rifle - which would eventually replace the Wz. 1887 as the standard infantry rifle - was more or less a shortened Wz 1887, with an accompanying shortened bayonet. Dragoon rifles were additionally installed with wire sling hangers through the sling loop slots to allow the use of a different sling. Its issue was not limited to mounted infantry; artillerymen, engineers, and other non-infantry combat troops would often be issued with the dragoon rifle. The dragoon rifle in its original configuration is now exceedingly rare, with many examples having been updated during the replacement of the Wz. 1887.

The cavalry carbine was much shorter than the infantry and dragoon rifles, with a smaller nosecap lacking a bayonet lug - this role instead taken up by cavalry lances and sabres - and the front sling loop slot replaced by a barrel-band mounted sling ring.

In 1903, following formative experiences with trench warfare, a grenade discharger was developed and introduced. Based on the Wz. 1887, the Wz. 1887/1903 Grenade Launching Rifle used the bayonet lug to mount a 36mm grenade cup to the barrel. The grenades were of the shoot-through type, allowing for a faster, more efficient manual of arms than comparable designs that utilised special blank launching cartridges. The 1887/1903 often featured reinforcing wire wraps along the stock to prevent the stress of launching cracking the wood; additionally, a reinforcing bolt was installed on the forestock. The fact that the grenade cup itself blocked the rifle's sights meant grenadiers would often seek out pistols rather than rely on their rifles for anything other than firing grenades. Typically, one grenade rifle would be issued per infantry section.

Overall, the Wz. 1887 proved largely satisfactory as an infantry weapon. Even after its official replacement it continued to serve in reserve and militia formations; indeed, a large number were captured by anarchists during the civil war of 1925-1927 when a train carrying supplies intended for a newly-raised militia unit was derailed. It was in this conflict that they would see their last combat use, being stockpiled after the war's end in 1927 and quietly disposed of some decades later.

[Sevvania]

Did a thing. Loosely based on the Winchester 1895 in shape.

Beautiful. The grenadier rifle is especially sweet.

A suggestion, though: While the "launcher obstructed rifle sights prompting grenadiers to seek out handguns" makes for interesting lore, it could also be worth looking into making a later-war variant outfitted with either higher sights (possibly used in conjunction with an elevated cheek rest), or some sort of lolbasic optic.

[Spreewerke]

What's the ideal weapon accesories for average rifleman? Aside from vertical/horizontal front grip. Also, best sight?

You can do 98% of what needs to be done with a rifleman's rifle with the following items (in the context of items attached directly to the weapon, not what ammo type, mag count, etc.):

• Sling
• Flashlight
• IR designator if you issue NODs

My friend and I did some farting around this past weekend with my CQBR-inspired SBR and his bone stock GAU-5A/A clone with some two-gun styles of shooting. The only advantage we noticed with my high-speed, low-drag setup versus his basic bitch carbine? I could shoot while moving much easier with a red dot v. his iron sights, and I could identify targets after dark since I had a weaponlight and he did not. NODs and a PEQ (or even a carry handle-mounted IR beam for his rifle, dare I say it) would make both rifles equally capable after dark. White light does have some uses, though, since it can blind/disorient a target, so having both is ideal. I understand the PEQ-16 has both IR and white lights built in, but I think its built-in light is rather poor.

Do you need a foregrip? No. I prefer how they place my hand for flashlight activation, but they are not absolutely needed unless you've got so much crap on your handguards you simply don't have anywhere else to put your hand. Do you need a red dot? Not really. You are going to have guys covering you as you move, and if you're in CQB, you can just point-shoot while moving. Otherwise, an optic is awesome, but for your "average rifleman," not needed.

These are the bare basics. Feel free to add more, but those three things are the only things I'd say a rifle absolutely needs to be combat-effective.

The ideal combat sights are apparently a Kalashnikov style sight with a sight rib. There's a study I used to have but no longer do, if Aquiz (rip gone but not forgotten) was around he would.

Comes from the United States military's ACR program in the 1980s.

Neither for general issue.
Magnification>superimposition outside of CQC

I have been wanting an Elcan SpecterDR 1-4x something fierce for my SBR for a while now since it's effectively both without the wasted in-between of a variable optic.

Lasers are dumb
Inb4spree.

I've had some arguments made for the uses of a laser. The best part is that none of these arguments have anything to do with aiming, short of IR designators being used with NODs. This is because visible lasers are full-retard for aiming purposes.

What about a flashlight that powers on when you press lightly on the trigger to illuminate the target and make him know you are serious whilst you debate shooting? (Actual thing. O_o)

You mean the "I'm here shoot me!" device?

A flashlight connected to the trigger is undoubtedly stupid, moreso than the lasers I just discusssed, but a weapon light in general is not a "shoot me" device assuming the operator of the firearm is, in fact, not a complete retard. The last training I went to showed me that almost everyone but myself was a complete retard as their logic for using a weapon light was as follows:

• Turn on the light before beginning the scenario
• Turn it off after it's done

If you do momentary on/off, even with white light, it is hard to follow where the guy with the rifle is going and, consequentially, shoot.

Flashlights are important for CQC. Something that a lot of people see in special forces is flashlights on rifles but these are usually secondary or entirely for the purpose of CQ. Flashlights are important to blind people at close range, even where NV is present, because at 3-5m, you are probably able to be targeted, but flashlights have a disorientation effect.

Also useful is the IR mode of many of them.

Pretty much this.

[Gallia-]

Like on a shotgun?

Presumably because it's both open to allow for a wide vision area, and intuitive for a combat sight, right?

[Spreewerke]

Like on a shotgun?

Presumably because it's both open to allow for a wide vision area, and intuitive for a combat sight, right?

More open sight picture just like why a handgun typically uses post-notch sights, can be fired closer to dusk/dawn than an aperture sight (apertures restrict the amount of incoming light, which means you might be able to see the target just fine, but aiming through the peep blacks out your front post and also hides the target: this is why the larger 0-2 aperture was introduced on the M16A2, but it's hard to maintain a precise sight picture with a ghost-ring sight, which is why they're typically only found on shotguns), and the sight rib helps with sight alignment due to peripheral vision potentially picking it up while shouldering/aiming, if I'm remembering all of their points correctly.

[Sediczja]

A suggestion, though: While the "launcher obstructed rifle sights prompting grenadiers to seek out handguns" makes for interesting lore, it could also be worth looking into making a later-war variant outfitted with either higher sights (possibly used in conjunction with an elevated cheek rest), or some sort of lolbasic optic.

I was thinking that you could flip up the rear sight ladder and use it in conjunction with the grenade cup's foresight.

That might be the way to go, in fairness, because that foresight would be useless otherwise. Actual grenade sights would probably be a set of tangent sights on the left side of the stock.

[Caneja]

What methods could be used in order to spread biological weapons to hostile lands?

[Spirit of Hope]

What methods could be used in order to spread biological weapons to hostile lands?

Lots of methods, any weapon with an explosive warhead can have it switched out for a warhead they distributes chemical or biological weapons. This is less efficient because generally there aren't that many people in the effected area and you would be better of using anow explosive warhead to kill those people.

Agents could use handheld dispersing devices, or leave automated devices, but that leaves them exposed and is rather hard to implement.