Infantry Discussion Thread 10: Shovel Edition [NO FWORDS]

[Fordorsia]

whut

[Taihei Tengoku]

Fixed firing pin, there is nothing to cock

[Fordorsia]

Fixed firing pin, there is nothing to cock

It's open bolt. It cocks.

[Gallia-]

Fixed firing pin, there is nothing to cock

It's open bolt. It cocks.

No, it doesn't.

"Cocking" means moving the hammer into position to hit the firing pin. If there is no reason to hit the firing pin, it cannot be "cocked". Rather, it is "charged".

[Fordorsia]

Didn't know there was a distinction.

So then, how is it charged?

[Taihei Tengoku]

The barrel shroud is connected to the bolt group much like a slide on a pistol.

[Fordorsia]

The barrel shroud is connected to the bolt group much like a slide on a pistol.

You just grab the shrod and pull back? Doesn't seem entirely practical, especially as I don't see any handles or anything.

[Federated Kingdom of Prussia]

What weapons should foot officers carry in a Napoleonic timeframe? I'm thinking some sort of saber(probably the Blucher saber, because duh) would be the obvious thing, for signaling and fighting with in a pinch, but it also makes sense to equip officers with pistols if need be.

I'm debating whether I should equip NCOs and colorguards with pikes or halberds. I don't think it makes much of a difference, but I like the halberd style of fighting, while pikes are what was traditionally used, at least in the British army of this period.

[Torrocca]

What weapons should foot officers carry in a Napoleonic timeframe? I'm thinking some sort of saber(probably the Blucher saber, because duh) would be the obvious thing, for signaling and fighting with in a pinch, but it also makes sense to equip officers with pistols if need be.

I'm debating whether I should equip NCOs and colorguards with pikes or halberds. I don't think it makes much of a difference, but I like the halberd style of fighting, while pikes are what was traditionally used, at least in the British army of this period.

>Pikes
>Halberds

do you even partisan bro?

[Fordorsia]

DOOTDOOTDOOTDOOTDOOT

What weapons should foot officers carry in a Napoleonic timeframe? I'm thinking some sort of saber(probably the Blucher saber, because duh) would be the obvious thing, for signaling and fighting with in a pinch, but it also makes sense to equip officers with pistols if need be.

I'm debating whether I should equip NCOs and colorguards with pikes or halberds. I don't think it makes much of a difference, but I like the halberd style of fighting, while pikes are what was traditionally used, at least in the British army of this period.

By then having your NCOs still use anything that isn't a musket is a good way to get them killed by large numbers of very good skirmishers

[Purpelia]

What weapons should foot officers carry in a Napoleonic timeframe? I'm thinking some sort of saber(probably the Blucher saber, because duh) would be the obvious thing, for signaling and fighting with in a pinch, but it also makes sense to equip officers with pistols if need be.

I'm debating whether I should equip NCOs and colorguards with pikes or halberds. I don't think it makes much of a difference, but I like the halberd style of fighting, while pikes are what was traditionally used, at least in the British army of this period.

I can't answer that question specifically but I know a source that is very likely to have that answer. And since you seem to be interested in all things Napoleonic anyway I'll just link that and maybe it will be helpful. http://napoleonistyka.atspace.com/

[Kazarogkai]

The recent talk of that Vickers 50 got me thinking, could it be feasible to equip soldiers with a .50 caliber HMG as standard? Within the infantry battalions of nations during WW2 almost all of them included a couple platoons(maybe even a company) of HMGs which per standard usually shared the same caliber as their standard rifle, with a few notable exceptions of course. *Cough* Italy *Cough* *Cough* Japan.

The justification for this is kinda simple. In the case of the aforementioned Japanese they made use of an HMG called the Type 92 which was literally almost the same size as the american M2 Browning and it wasn't even a .50 cal. Each infantry battalion accordingly had on paper 12 through 8 was more usual of these things so ya. So the argument of weight being a limiting factor does not hold as much sway arguably. The second reason for why I would do this is a little more unique. At the time the main round used by the Kaza would have been a 6.35mm round which while fine for an LMG or a Rifle would have probably been found as inadequate. Especially considering the HMG's expected role of not just fire support but also as a battalion level AA Defense, which a round like the aforementioned may have had difficulty performing well.

So just some thoughts. On the use of a .50 cal HMG as a standard weapon, is it possible for the period in question(Late interwar-early ww2)?

What weapons should foot officers carry in a Napoleonic timeframe? I'm thinking some sort of saber(probably the Blucher saber, because duh) would be the obvious thing, for signaling and fighting with in a pinch, but it also makes sense to equip officers with pistols if need be.

I'm debating whether I should equip NCOs and colorguards with pikes or halberds. I don't think it makes much of a difference, but I like the halberd style of fighting, while pikes are what was traditionally used, at least in the British army of this period.

Depends on the place, I could see something like a whip or even a mace as traditional signs of power being used. That and pistols, the proper gentleman's weapon.

[Husseinarti]

What weapons should foot officers carry in a Napoleonic timeframe? I'm thinking some sort of saber(probably the Blucher saber, because duh) would be the obvious thing, for signaling and fighting with in a pinch, but it also makes sense to equip officers with pistols if need be.

I'm debating whether I should equip NCOs and colorguards with pikes or halberds. I don't think it makes much of a difference, but I like the halberd style of fighting, while pikes are what was traditionally used, at least in the British army of this period.

During the like, 17th to mid-19th century you would see NCOs and dudes with like half-pikes also known as a spontoon. They'd be typically used for diving orders and stuff.

[Puzikas]

with a few notable exceptions

Like everyone who wasn't the US or Russia?

The concept of a HMG is a post-war concept as we understand it now. Prewar and during the war 12.7mm Machine Guns were in development and testing by several nations but really only the US and USSR developed and deployed 12.7mm guns that fit into the HMG concept we have now. You have Italy with 8x59mm and the Swedes with 8mm Bofors, both of which were "Heavy Machine Guns" in their doctrines, intended to defend against aircraft or fire at extended ranges.

The M2 and DShKs are notable outgrowths of this need, the M2 being originally intended to be a literal AT Machine Gun, and the DShK order coming from the DK, which was submitted to fill the needs of the Red Armys need for a fast firing, light weight, infantry mobile machine gun with greater range and power than the PM1910 for use against structures and vehicles.

The majority of nations had a different set of ideas on how to actually use Machine guns. It's why the Germans went in with a GPMG, and the allies with fixed Machine Guns and Automatic Rifles, and guns like the Lewis and DP existed. The HMG was a weird outgrowth that happened Ed to be a very necessary adaptation.

[Fordorsia]

The majority of nations had a different set of ideas on how to actually use Machine guns.

It's why the Germans didn't use the MG 131 and the Japanese didn't use the H0-103 on the ground (at least not to any real extent), despite both being very light but just as potent as something like the M2. muuuh HE

[Theodosiya]

Been thinking and voila...
New squad

1st FT
SL w car and ubgl
Radioman w car
Des marks with dmr
Auto rifleman
Rifleman w ar and disposables

2nd FT loses the radioman and led by ft lead

1 WT/Support
1 TL w car
AT
Assistant AT
LMG gunner

[Crookfur]

What weapons should foot officers carry in a Napoleonic timeframe? I'm thinking some sort of saber(probably the Blucher saber, because duh) would be the obvious thing, for signaling and fighting with in a pinch, but it also makes sense to equip officers with pistols if need be.

I'm debating whether I should equip NCOs and colorguards with pikes or halberds. I don't think it makes much of a difference, but I like the halberd style of fighting, while pikes are what was traditionally used, at least in the British army of this period.

Yes officer should have sword but at that time things were in flux as to what kind of sword. The most likely issue to a line battalion officer would be some sort smallsword like thing like the 1796 infantry officers sword. Your jager and grenadier officers would generally have something more serious like an 1803 pattern, or in the case of jagers some sort of hanger.

Various privately purchased swords in the 1796 light cavalry saber format (generally a bit smaller, sometimes a bit straighter) would be appearing amongst those officer with the funds and desire to purchase a second sword.

As to helberds/spontoons/partizans yep you should have some they fulfil several useful roles, a badge of rank for the bearer, enhanced close combat fighting power for the colour party and finally as a measuring and line straightening tool.

[Husseinarti]

The majority of nations had a different set of ideas on how to actually use Machine guns.

It's why the Germans didn't use the MG 131 and the Japanese didn't use the H0-103 on the ground (at least not to any real extent), despite both being very light but just as potent as something like the M2. muuuh HE

Well the closest thing the Germans used were the Czech 15mm autocannons they issued to static divisions.

Aside from that, they didn't find a need for them with infantry.

[Fordorsia]

It's why the Germans didn't use the MG 131 and the Japanese didn't use the H0-103 on the ground (at least not to any real extent), despite both being very light but just as potent as something like the M2. muuuh HE

Well the closest thing the Germans used were the Czech 15mm autocannons they issued to static divisions.

Aside from that, they didn't find a need for them with infantry.

Which czech autocannon?

[Husseinarti]

Well the closest thing the Germans used were the Czech 15mm autocannons they issued to static divisions.

Aside from that, they didn't find a need for them with infantry.

Which czech autocannon?

The ZB-60 15mm autocannon.

BESA 15mm is what it is also known as.

[Austrasien]

The Flak 38 was used sometimes in ground combat.

Autocannons were intended always as anti-aircraft or anti-tank weapons though.

[Puzikas]

Who here /EastGermany/

Pic is good approximation of WarPact Motortroop c. 1976-1984 excluding the more f l a v o r Soviet units.

[Austrasien]

The helmets ruin everything.

Alas.

[Puzikas]

I mean yah

But when tested them in the 70s they ended up being like one of the best protected helmets in use so there's that

But at what cost?

[Purpelia]

2 machine guns per squad. Isn't that like a lot? I mean, are those PKM's or RPK's?