Your Nation's Air Force Mark III: Best Korea Edition

[New Oyashima]

In grim dark futur.


Su-25 is replaced by Su-47 In CAS roles.

N o .
o
.

It's too late. Darkest timeline.

the SU-47 was as a dumb plane

Too bad my Air force is made of dumb. Also ur dumb got em.

[Pavelania]

Suggestions on what Soviet Aerobatic aircraft would be most appropriate for a 2017 civilian aerobatics team?

So far the possibilities I had in mind are:

MiG-17
MiG-15
L-39
L-29
T-11 Iskra
Yak-18
Yak-18P
Yak-18PS
Yak-50
Yak-52
Yak-15

Obviously, a full blown warlord team would be awesome, but also really expensive, so I am contemplating maybe something a step down from that, L-39s are still used by my Air Force so I was going to rule those out... not sure if I should go prop or jet plane, since prop planes can pull tighter turns than jets that could make for a more interesting display. Thoughts?

A pro team using soviet/Russian stuff would likely be using something like the yak-54 or su-26/29/31 ie pure acrobatic sports aircraft.

A civilian jet team is very rare even in the West due to the sheer costs and complexity involved.

You might want to have a look at groups like The Blades to see what is possible with a bunch of aircraft in a similar class to those mentioned previously.

Our Air Force demonstration team uses the F-5E/F Tiger II and our Navy Demonstration team uses the A-4PN Skyhawk. Air Force demonstration team will more than likely be switched over to the F-16 eventually, but I'm not sure what to replace our Navy team's A-4's with, considering our A-4's will be replaced by the F-35B. It's either the F/A-18E/F for our navy demonstration team or our in-development "Viper" jet.

The sukhoi aerobatic planes are perfect for aerobatics, same as the Extras and Zivkos.

[Iltica]

You have seen but only the edge of the abyss.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

You have seen but only the edge of the abyss.

I paused adblock for this shit?!

[Pavelania]

You have seen but only the edge of the abyss.

I paused adblock for this shit?!

[Fordorsia]

For how long after WWII would a long 30mm be useful for tank hunting? Making an attack at the appropriate angle gives the MK 103 disgusting penetration.

If the answer is positive, why wasn't its GLORIOUS legacy continued?

[Laritaia]

For how long after WWII would a long 30mm be useful for tank hunting? Making an attack at the appropriate angle gives the MK 103 disgusting penetration.

If the answer is positive, why wasn't its GLORIOUS legacy continued?

because rockets are just flat out better

[Fordorsia]

When they hit

[Laritaia]

When they hit

modern rockets are not RP-3s

[Fordorsia]

For how long after WWII

I thought it was pretty clear that I was asking about the couple decades after WWII, not about modern guided bombs and rockets

[The Akasha Colony]

For how long after WWII

I thought it was pretty clear that I was asking about the couple decades after WWII, not about modern guided bombs and rockets

We're not talking about guided rockets either.

Hydra 70 dates to 1948 and is still in service today. Guided variants only came into service five years ago, and the previous unguided variants were still plenty accurate enough to displace the cannon as the primary ground-attack armament of CAS and ground attack aircraft.

[Fordorsia]

I thought it was pretty clear that I was asking about the couple decades after WWII, not about modern guided bombs and rockets

We're not talking about guided rockets either.

Hydra 70 dates to 1948 and is still in service today. Guided variants only came into service five years ago, and the previous unguided variants were still plenty accurate enough to displace the cannon as the primary ground-attack armament of CAS and ground attack aircraft.

So if rockets were accurate enough (despite the RAF's WWII findings) how come the A-10 came about? Why did it get the GAU-8 when it could have had even more rockets for the weight?

[Laritaia]

For how long after WWII

I thought it was pretty clear that I was asking about the couple decades after WWII, not about modern guided bombs and rockets

by "modern" i mean like RN 2" RP not CVR-7

So if rockets were accurate enough (despite the RAF's WWII findings)

the RP-3 was unimaginably crude in design

the later designs were substantially more accurate

[The Akasha Colony]

So if rockets were accurate enough (despite the RAF's WWII findings) how come the A-10 came about? Why did it get the GAU-8 when it could have had even more rockets for the weight?

Because what actually works is not always the same as what people think (or more accurately, want to believe) works.

The USAF asked Pierre Sprey to help develop the concept of a cheap CAS aircraft to answer the US Army's encroaching attack helicopter development, which threatened part of the USAF's funding stream and political clout. The USAF had moved away from "low and slow" CAS aircraft like the Skyraider in favor of more expensive, higher-performance aircraft like the F-111 and F-4, which left a gap the US Army had begun filling with steadily more advanced and capable attack helicopters.

Sprey talked to a bunch of Vietnam pilots and then read some WWII books by Luftwaffe Stuka pilots and was enamored with the idea of a big cannon because Luftwaffe aces reported great success with these weapons against Soviet tank columns. Which was true at the time, but the Luftwaffe didn't have access to Hydra 70s or the even-better CRV-7, which was in development at the time and entered service around the same time as A-10. The USAF accepted his recommendation that the proposed CAS aircraft have a cannon, and that was basically the end of it: the A-X project now had a cannon requirement and the USAF accepted bids to develop what would become GAU-8 and the aircraft to carry it.

It should probably be noted that no other contemporaneous attack aircraft had a similar requirement. All had guns but none went as "all-in" on guns as A-10 did. The SEPECAT Jaguar had two 30 mm DEFA cannons but these were far lighter, more compact, and less powerful than GAU-8. A-7 Corsair had a single M61 Vulcan, and A-10's most famous rival, Su-25, has only a single GSh-30-2.

[New Oyashima]

You have seen but only the edge of the abyss.

[Laywenrania]

For how long after WWII

I thought it was pretty clear that I was asking about the couple decades after WWII, not about modern guided bombs and rockets

unguided rockets were considered as the most accurate armament for ground attack for the MiG-21. *shrug*

[New Oyashima]

Can someone explain why the King Stallion costs more then an F-35? Will the price go down with production?

[Laritaia]

Can someone explain why the King Stallion costs more then an F-35? Will the price go down with production?

the MIC and modern governmental contracting

[Rhodesialund]

Can someone explain why the King Stallion costs more then an F-35? Will the price go down with production?

the MIC and modern governmental contracting

Gotta spread that money and keep the wheels overly greased.

[New Oyashima]

Can someone explain why the King Stallion costs more then an F-35? Will the price go down with production?

the MIC and modern governmental contracting

So I could make it cheaper?

[The Akasha Colony]

Can someone explain why the King Stallion costs more then an F-35? Will the price go down with production?

Lots of reasons.

Right now the total expected order for CH-53K is just over twice the number of F-35s in each LRIP batch, so they're produced in tiny quantities (which is not surprising given it's not in service yet). F-35's flyaway costs have plunged as orders increased and the production process is refined, but CH-53K will never receive anywhere near that number of orders. The current F-35 LRIP batches have nearly a hundred aircraft per order, while the USMC only wants 200 CH-53Ks in total. The USMC is also likely to space out its procurement orders to keep the CH-53K plants running as long as possible which means that average production rates will remain low unless suddenly a flood of international orders appears, but CH-47 has already stolen most of the Western heavy lift market so I wouldn't count on it. AFAIK, only Israel has even mulled the idea of buying CH-53K.

The USMC is also stuck and Sikorsky knows it. Their CH-53Es need replacement and the USMC doesn't want to go elsewhere given that all of their existing infrastructure is geared toward the operation of CH-53s rather than CH-47s. So on top of the small production run, Sikorsky knows that the USMC will pay more per helicopter to avoid having to pay even more to convert to CH-47. The heavy lift helicopter segment isn't very competitive because there aren't a lot of options, unlike the medium and light utility helicopter segments.

It should also probably be noted that the cost of a CH-53E in the 1990s was in line with the cost of an F-15 in that same time period, so this is not unusual. CH-53 has always had small production runs and is fairly mechanically complex due to the use of three engines since CH-53E, plus the USMC's requirement for marinization. CH-53K is a fairly significant redesign of the CH-53E (which itself was a major redesign of the original CH-53) so cost increases are not surprising.

So I could make it cheaper?

If you massively increased the order quantity and had an actual competitive market for heavy lift helicopters, sure. To an extent.

[New Oyashima]

Well our region's US plans to use a ton more then 200 iirc, and I want to place an order as our region's Japan for a ton of them too if it would bring the cost down. Plus I have our region's Russia pressuring me to buy his helis.

[Laritaia]

Well our region's US plans to use a ton more then 200 iirc, and I want to place an order as our region's Japan for a ton of them too if it would bring the cost down. Plus I have our region's Russia pressuring me to buy his helis.

what does he need so many for?

[New Oyashima]

Well our region's US plans to use a ton more then 200 iirc, and I want to place an order as our region's Japan for a ton of them too if it would bring the cost down. Plus I have our region's Russia pressuring me to buy his helis.

what does he need so many for?

His nation is located differently then irl US and our region's EU won't let him build many bases there, so he expanded his marine capabilities a fuckton.

[Laritaia]

that's not really a reason for more CH-53Ks