Your Nation's Warships, Batch 3

[Laritaia]

if you pretty much always have aircraft parked onto of it you may as well not have it, on top of that the interaction between the forward aircraft lift and a second bow catapult would be less then desirable, further reducing it's usability.

Then there is the fact that the forward port CIWS would have to be relocated somewhere else along with the forward most weapons lift.

If you need all three cats to launch planes, then you just move more aircraft aft. You already can't use the waist cat if you're landing planes, so you just move aircraft into position in the landing-strip, ready to be moved quickly if need be.
Planes can be moved.

i'm sure they can

however a third catapult on the bow still doesn't fit

also none of the catapults are operable while landing planes so that's irrelevant

[Theodosiya]

So, a light, a medium and a heavy frigate?

There is no answer to this question.

It depends on your needs and your budget. Many nations have several categories of frigate ranging from small general purpose ones for basic patrol work all the way up to complex anti-air frigates that cost well over a billion dollars each.

Something that could face at least flotilla of Russian corvettes and frigates.

[The Akasha Colony]

Something that could face at least flotilla of Russian corvettes and frigates.

That's a rather unreasonable requirement. To expect a single ship to be able to defeat multiple opposing ships of roughly similar size and capability.

[Theodosiya]

Something that could face at least flotilla of Russian corvettes and frigates.

That's a rather unreasonable requirement. To expect a single ship to be able to defeat multiple opposing ships of roughly similar size and capability.

2-3 ships. Quality vs quantity.

[EsToVnIa]

2-3 ships > just 1 ship

[Theodosiya]

I mean, the capability of whatever new ships are better than average. 1 ships with capability of two.

[The Akasha Colony]

That's a rather unreasonable requirement. To expect a single ship to be able to defeat multiple opposing ships of roughly similar size and capability.

2-3 ships. Quality vs quantity.

It doesn't really work that way. Multiple ships have an inherent advantage in search capabilities and coverage. There are more of them. They can cover more ground.

As it stands, even a very small ship with anti-ship missiles can threaten a much larger ship. There is no real way to do anything about this. A 2,000 tonne missile corvette can threaten a 5,000+ tonne frigate. The frigate might have slightly better missile countermeasures, but it will never be totally "safe" from the smaller ship. Even a 10,000 tonne Burke would not be totally safe.

[Theodosiya]

Alright then. The designs of my ships, while western, will retain at least some Russian holdover. Like, more than one CIWS, several different classes and subclasses from corvs to cruisers(Simplified, though). Budget, overall, 2% of GDP. Navy got sizeable funding, larger than airforce but smaller than army. SO, 2 corvettes sizes, 3 frigate sizes, one destroyer type, 3 cruisers type (2 "conventional Russian, one aviation based on improved Kusnetzov/Liaoning) [New ships type. For now, i use old Soviet hardware upgraded with western stuff]

[The Greater Aryan Race]

Alright then. The designs of my ships, while western, will retain at least some Russian holdover. Like, more than one CIWS, several different classes and subclasses from corvs to cruisers(Simplified, though). Budget, overall, 2% of GDP. Navy got sizeable funding, larger than airforce but smaller than army. SO, 2 corvettes sizes, 3 frigate sizes, one destroyer type, 3 cruisers type (2 "conventional Russian, one aviation based on improved Kusnetzov/Liaoning) [New ships type. For now, i use old Soviet hardware upgraded with western stuff]

Seems a bit too complicated, why not plump for an all-NATO navy? Or, if you're insistent on having a mix of Russian/Western hardware, go procure some Indian warships like Kolkata.

[Theodosiya]

The USSR few influence are in ships design.

[Lamoni]

You likely won't have the money to spend on multiple classes of corvettes, frigates, etc. Thus, you're going to have to have general purpose ships, instead of specialized ships (which works far better with NATO naval doctrine, than Soviet). This also means that you'd likely have one class of corvette, one class of frigate, one class of destroyer, one class of Cruiser, etc.

[Theodosiya]

Works for me. Maximize on capability, then. Frigates will be large, DZP/Horizon based. Destroyers, bastardized AB-Atago-Sejong, 165m. Cruisers, Kirov based, slightly enlarged. Aircraft Carrier, Enlarged, CATOBAR capable Kuzny.

[The Akasha Colony]

You likely won't have the money to spend on multiple classes of corvettes, frigates, etc. Thus, you're going to have to have general purpose ships, instead of specialized ships (which works far better with NATO naval doctrine, than Soviet). This also means that you'd likely have one class of corvette, one class of frigate, one class of destroyer, one class of Cruiser, etc.

Multiple classes are actually cheaper. A single high-performance class gets very expensive to field in sufficient quantities especially at smaller sizes. This is why most NATO navies with the exception of the United States operate multiple different classes of frigate geared toward different purposes. Even the British got put off by the cost of the Type 26 and converted the last five to the theoretically cheaper Type 31 program. The Soviets did this too, and even the USN did this until the introduction of Burke and the retirement of the old Spruances which ended the USN ASW destroyer line.

[Chezzetcook]

The Dominion of Chezzetcook, being an isolated island nation in the North Atlantic Ocean maintains a strong naval presence to ensure a secure and strong trade network upon which it relies for survival.

History
With the transition in 1902 of the former Colony of Chezzetcook into a self-ruling Dominion it was determined to that the island nation would require a naval force for self defense. With assistance from the Royal Navy. The Navy Act of 1907 established the basis for how the Chezzetcook Navy was to be formed, and in 1911 the Chezzetcook Navy received its first two warships: The former Royal Navy Edgar class Protected Cruisers Royal Arthur and Crescent.

In 1913 the Chezzetcook Naval Service was officially renamed the Royal Chezzetcook Navy with royal patronage from King George V.

By the end of WW2 the RCN primarily consisted of Destroyers, Minesweepers, and Corvettes acquired from either the British or Americans. As well, from 1944 until early 1946 the RCN provided the crew to a single RN Ruler class escort carrier. The end of WW2 and the start of tensions between the USSR and the former Western Allies led the RCN to reconsider its place in the world. In 1947 the RCN purchased the uncompleted HMS Leviathan and had her completed to a modified standard with an angled flight deck. Entering service after delays in 1958 as HMCS Acadia, she would serve for 35 years until paid off in 1993. Acadia was retained by the Chezzetcook government as a national museum, and can be visited by the public.

In 1980 the RCN recieved budgetary approval for an extensive plan to rebuild its naval capability. Tensions with the USSR and an upsurge in national pride led to a decade of revision in the RCN. Commitments to provide escorts to allied fleets were cut while a greater emphasis on the submarine force and the provision of a RCN battlegroup were pushed. The replacement for HMCS Acadia was determined at this time, with the decision to build a modified American Sea Control Ship design in greater numbers instead of a single ship. Manning restraints forced the move to a smaller, less capable carrier due to a parliamentary decree instructing the RCN to be able to provide a continuous battlegroup presence, forcing the requirement of two or three ships instead of one.

Current Ships:
Aircraft Carriers: Known as Annapolis or River Class.
- HMCS Annapolis, Commissioned 1991.
- HMCS Chezzetcook, Commissioned 1993.
- HMCS Gaspereau, Commissioned 1994.

Cruisers: Known as Island Class, destroyers or frigates in other navies.
- HMCS Ile Royale, Commissioned 2005.
- HMCS Tancook, Commissioned 2007.
- HMCS Sable, Commissioned 2009.

Destroyers: Known as Town Class.
- HMCS Truro, Commissioned 1986.
- HMCS Bridgewater, Commissioned 1987.
- HMCS Yarmouth, Commissioned 1987.
- HMCS Kentville, Commissioned 1988.
- HMCS Windsor, Commissioned 1988.
- HMCS Pictou, Commissioned 1989.
- HMCS Sherbrooke, Commissioned 1989.
- HMCS Havre Boucher, Commissioned 1990.

Corvettes: Known as Royal Class, ships unnamed, primarily mine countermeasure vessels.
- K180, Commissioned 1995.
- K181, Commissioned 1995.
- K182, Commissioned 1996.
- K183, Commissioned 1996.
- K184, Commissioned 1996.
- K185, Commissioned 1997.

Submarines: Known as Victoria Class, the last two boats were purchased for spares from the RN after removal from RN service and are not active.
- HMCS Victoria, Commissioned 1994.
- HMCS Elizabeth, Commissioned 1995.
- HMCS Anne, Commissioned 1996.
- HMCS Mary, Commissioned 1997.
- HMCS Ursula, Acquired 2002.
- HMCS Unicorn, Acquired 2002.

Support Vessels:
- Two 160 tonne Fire boats.
- Four 250 tonne Tug boats.
- Four 50 tonne tug boats.
- Two 200 tonne training boats.
- HMCS St. Mary, Operated by Naval Reserve, commissioned 1976.
- HMCS Provider, Commissioned 1992.
- HMCS Preserver, Commissioned 1994.

Fleet Air Arm:
The RCN operates fixed and rotary wing aircraft in support of maritime operations both locally and on board ships. It has the following inventory:

Fixed Wing:
- 52 AV-8B+ Harrier II (Designated CFA8 In RCN service).
- 8 TAV-8B Harrier II (Designated CT8 In RCN service).
- 9 P3 Orion Maritime Patrol (Designated CP112 In RCN Service).
- 5 Learjet 60 (Designated CC160 in RCN Service).
- 7 Embraer Tucano (Designated CT9 in RCN Service)

Helicopters:
- 22 AW101 Merlin (Designated CH132 in RCN service).
- 36 AS565 Panther (Designated CH165 in RCN service).

[Velkanika]

The Dominion of Chezzetcook, being an isolated island nation in the North Atlantic Ocean maintains a strong naval presence to ensure a secure and strong trade network upon which it relies for survival.

History
With the transition in 1902 of the former Colony of Chezzetcook into a self-ruling Dominion it was determined to that the island nation would require a naval force for self defense. With assistance from the Royal Navy. The Navy Act of 1907 established the basis for how the Chezzetcook Navy was to be formed, and in 1911 the Chezzetcook Navy received its first two warships: The former Royal Navy Edgar class Protected Cruisers Royal Arthur and Crescent.

In 1913 the Chezzetcook Naval Service was officially renamed the Royal Chezzetcook Navy with royal patronage from King George V.

By the end of WW2 the RCN primarily consisted of Destroyers, Minesweepers, and Corvettes acquired from either the British or Americans. As well, from 1944 until early 1946 the RCN provided the crew to a single RN Ruler class escort carrier. The end of WW2 and the start of tensions between the USSR and the former Western Allies led the RCN to reconsider its place in the world. In 1947 the RCN purchased the uncompleted HMS Leviathan and had her completed to a modified standard with an angled flight deck. Entering service after delays in 1958 as HMCS Acadia, she would serve for 35 years until paid off in 1993. Acadia was retained by the Chezzetcook government as a national museum, and can be visited by the public.

In 1980 the RCN recieved budgetary approval for an extensive plan to rebuild its naval capability. Tensions with the USSR and an upsurge in national pride led to a decade of revision in the RCN. Commitments to provide escorts to allied fleets were cut while a greater emphasis on the submarine force and the provision of a RCN battlegroup were pushed. The replacement for HMCS Acadia was determined at this time, with the decision to build a modified American Sea Control Ship design in greater numbers instead of a single ship. Manning restraints forced the move to a smaller, less capable carrier due to a parliamentary decree instructing the RCN to be able to provide a continuous battlegroup presence, forcing the requirement of two or three ships instead of one.

Current Ships:
Aircraft Carriers: Known as Annapolis or River Class.
- HMCS Annapolis, Commissioned 1991.
- HMCS Chezzetcook, Commissioned 1993.
- HMCS Gaspereau, Commissioned 1994.

Cruisers: Known as Island Class, destroyers or frigates in other navies.
- HMCS Ile Royale, Commissioned 2005.
- HMCS Tancook, Commissioned 2007.
- HMCS Sable, Commissioned 2009.

Destroyers: Known as Town Class.
- HMCS Truro, Commissioned 1986.
- HMCS Bridgewater, Commissioned 1987.
- HMCS Yarmouth, Commissioned 1987.
- HMCS Kentville, Commissioned 1988.
- HMCS Windsor, Commissioned 1988.
- HMCS Pictou, Commissioned 1989.
- HMCS Sherbrooke, Commissioned 1989.
- HMCS Havre Boucher, Commissioned 1990.

Corvettes: Known as Royal Class, ships unnamed, primarily mine countermeasure vessels.
- K180, Commissioned 1995.
- K181, Commissioned 1995.
- K182, Commissioned 1996.
- K183, Commissioned 1996.
- K184, Commissioned 1996.
- K185, Commissioned 1997.

Submarines: Known as Victoria Class, the last two boats were purchased for spares from the RN after removal from RN service and are not active.
- HMCS Victoria, Commissioned 1994.
- HMCS Elizabeth, Commissioned 1995.
- HMCS Anne, Commissioned 1996.
- HMCS Mary, Commissioned 1997.
- HMCS Ursula, Acquired 2002.
- HMCS Unicorn, Acquired 2002.

Support Vessels:
- Two 160 tonne Fire boats.
- Four 250 tonne Tug boats.
- Four 50 tonne tug boats.
- Two 200 tonne training boats.
- HMCS St. Mary, Operated by Naval Reserve, commissioned 1976.
- HMCS Provider, Commissioned 1992.
- HMCS Preserver, Commissioned 1994.

Fleet Air Arm:
The RCN operates fixed and rotary wing aircraft in support of maritime operations both locally and on board ships. It has the following inventory:

Fixed Wing:
- 52 AV-8B+ Harrier II (Designated CFA8 In RCN service).
- 8 TAV-8B Harrier II (Designated CT8 In RCN service).
- 9 P3 Orion Maritime Patrol (Designated CP112 In RCN Service).
- 5 Learjet 60 (Designated CC160 in RCN Service).
- 7 Embraer Tucano (Designated CT9 in RCN Service)

Helicopters:
- 22 AW101 Merlin (Designated CH132 in RCN service).
- 36 AS565 Panther (Designated CH165 in RCN service).

This is a very well done navy on the smaller side. You've still got a rather impressive force by real world standards, but you have room for improvement. Three jump carriers is exactly where you want to be, but you might want to get a line of replacement destroyers into construction as your 80s-buld warships will be getting rather worn out after 30 years of service. You also might want another tanker if you're planning on expeditionary warfare, and expect to have to take your entire navy along if you're going to fight a competent adversary like Argentina in the South Atlantic War of 1983.

[Kyiozo]

https://www.nationstates.net/nation=kyi ... /id=709458
https://www.nationstates.net/nation=kyi ... /id=709799

[Rich and Corporations]

https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/p ... 95.ch2.pdf

Yes.

A nuclear midget submarine.

And information on it is declassified.

[Rhodesialund]

https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1395/MR1395.ch2.pdf

Yes.

A nuclear midget submarine.

And information on it is declassified.

Yes, the most hated sub in the entire US Navy.

[The Corparation]

Personally I always found it to be adorable.

[The Akasha Colony]

https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1395/MR1395.ch2.pdf

Yes.

A nuclear midget submarine.

And information on it is declassified.

It was never all that secret given that it was used for scientific research and was basically a testbed. Rickover wanted a whole series of midget submarine testbeds but Congress refused to fund any more.

[The Selkie]

Good morning,
I have a question, which might seem a bit weird, but since we are talking about warships, we might as well have something cute along the way as well: Ship's cats.
My idea is to have a ship's cat on my vessels and shore installations even in MT both for combatting evildoers and pests, as well as a morale factor for the crew. It sounds like a good idea to me, but that of course begs the question, what is done by modern navies to achieve exactly the same thing and how well that works.
So.... thoughts?

[Allanea]

Good morning,
I have a question, which might seem a bit weird, but since we are talking about warships, we might as well have something cute along the way as well: Ship's cats.
My idea is to have a ship's cat on my vessels and shore installations even in MT both for combatting evildoers and pests, as well as a morale factor for the crew. It sounds like a good idea to me, but that of course begs the question, what is done by modern navies to achieve exactly the same thing and how well that works.
So.... thoughts?

Meanwhile, on the Kuznetsov...

[The Selkie]

Good morning,
I have a question, which might seem a bit weird, but since we are talking about warships, we might as well have something cute along the way as well: Ship's cats.
My idea is to have a ship's cat on my vessels and shore installations even in MT both for combatting evildoers and pests, as well as a morale factor for the crew. It sounds like a good idea to me, but that of course begs the question, what is done by modern navies to achieve exactly the same thing and how well that works.
So.... thoughts?

Meanwhile, on the Kuznetsov...

Okay, Kuznetsov and some civilian vessels notwithstanding, as far as I know, navies by now banned the ship's cat. At least the RN did, as far as I know. Hence my question.
I am not sure, if the cats in the picture are regular parts of the crew, though.

[Allanea]

The Russian Navy does not ban the ship's cat.

Ship's cats and other onboard pets are authorized on a case-by-case basis by the vessel's captain and most surface combatants of the Russian Navy have them.

I don't know, "the second largest navy in the world" seems like a pretty big exception to me.

[The Selkie]

The Russian Navy does not ban the ship's cat.

Ship's cats and other onboard pets are authorized on a case-by-case basis by the vessel's captain and most surface combatants of the Russian Navy have them.

I don't know, "the second largest navy in the world" seems like a pretty big exception to me.

So they are still in use with larger navies? (That sounds weird.)
I thought, that most did as the RN did. I am currently imagining a cat sitting on a rack of bombs or something on the flight deck of some USN-carrier, something like this, only a century later.