Your Nation's Warships, Batch 3

[New Vihenia]

Is there any particular reason both the US and Russia have moved towards smaller SSBNs carrying less missiles?

So they can build more SSBN's which can help survivability of the sea based deterrence.

Since the number of nuclear warhead is limited by treaty, there is worries about making SSBN that carries more missiles to end up with "putting all your eggs in one basket"

[Austrasien]

Is there any particular reason both the US and Russia have moved towards smaller SSBNs carrying less missiles?

Borei was meant to carry bigger missiles then got a hasty redesign when Russia remembered the R-39 was a crappy missile.

The Columbia has to pretend to have commonality with the Virginia to get built.

[The Akasha Colony]

Is there any particular reason both the US and Russia have moved towards smaller SSBNs carrying less missiles?

The total number of SLBM-launched warheads is limited by treaty, so neither Trident II nor any of Russia's missiles carry anywhere near their maximum payload.

This means that the number of missiles can be reduced and the number of warheads per missile increased (while keeping overall warhead count identical), which saves money because it means each boat doesn't need to be quite as large as it would otherwise be if it were carrying a full load of missiles. The full 288 Trident IIs the US Navy has could theoretically carry over 2,300 warheads, but IRL carries less than half that number. Even consolidated down to just 240 missiles in Columbia, the missiles would carry only half their maximum payload.

This in turn means the number of boats can be increased for the given budget, which helps further disperse the fleet and ensure it is harder for a hostile power to destroy a large portion of the at-sea deterrent at once.

The 16 missiles carried by Borei isn't actually a reduction though because the preceding Delta-class also carried 16 missiles. The Typhoons carried 20 missiles but they were a knee-jerk reaction to the Ohios and were never very good boats, which is why they've all been retired. They were big, expensive, and unwieldy, and the R-39 missiles they carried were likewise gigantic for only mediocre performance. But the Soviet government demanded that solid-fueled missiles be built because the Americans were building solid-fueled missiles, even though the USSR had little experience with solid-fueled rockets in general and the Soviet submarine forces had exactly zero experience with them.

[Kouralia]

What's a reasonable number of marines/naval fleet security bods/naval police to have on ships of different sizes? Does anyone know of any numbers for western navies atm?

[Angreia]

My main Destroyer is the Sovremenny Class but I’m open to recommendations for a more modern one.

[New Visayan Islands]

My main Destroyer is the Sovremenny Class but I’m open to recommendations for a more modern one.

ChiComs use more modern ships compared to the Sovremenny: Guangzhou-class (NATO reporting name Luyang I), Luzhou-class, Lanzhou-class (Luyang II), and the Kunming-class (Luyang III). The Type 055 (Renhai) is on the way, but when the DOD designates it as a cruiser comparable to Slavas, Kirovs, and Ticonderogas...

[Taihei Tengoku]

What's a reasonable number of marines/naval fleet security bods/naval police to have on ships of different sizes? Does anyone know of any numbers for western navies atm?

Usually "naval police" duties would be filled by sailors of the appropriate rating (in the USN it is the "master-at-arms"). In submarines there are very few, if any. Large surface ships like carriers would top out at a couple dozen.

[Gallia-]

Master-at-arms can also be used as a shore party if you're brave enough.

[Kouralia]

What's a reasonable number of marines/naval fleet security bods/naval police to have on ships of different sizes? Does anyone know of any numbers for western navies atm?

Usually "naval police" duties would be filled by sailors of the appropriate rating (in the USN it is the "master-at-arms"). In submarines there are very few, if any. Large surface ships like carriers would top out at a couple dozen.

Yeah. In the RN it's the Royal Navy Police. I still wonder roughly how many Marines is a reasonable number for modern ships?

Master-at-arms can also be used as a shore party if you're brave enough.

(Image)

tbf can't any sailor? Or do sailors not normally get any skill at arms/small unit manoeuvring training?

[The Akasha Colony]

tbf can't any sailor? Or do sailors not normally get any skill at arms/small unit manoeuvring training?

USN sailors no longer train on rifles in basic training, just pistols and shotguns, and I doubt they do any serious small unit combat training.

[Kouralia]

tbf can't any sailor? Or do sailors not normally get any skill at arms/small unit manoeuvring training?

USN sailors no longer train on rifles in basic training, just pistols and shotguns, and I doubt they do any serious small unit combat training.

When did the change happen? A quick google gives me an article from 2016 with RN enlisted rates being given skill at arms training on SA80s, so I'm wondering if that happened a while back, or in the last year or two?

EDIT: FOund an article saying something along the lines of 'RN ships will deploy 15 man boarding teams, led by an officer and a senior rating. They consist of a cross section of the crew to enable full inspection of all aspects of any searched vessel, and may be sent across in conjunction with an RM boarding party to secure the vessel to allow it to be searched.'

[The Akasha Colony]

When did the change happen? A quick google gives me an article from 2016 with RN enlisted rates being given skill at arms training on SA80s, so I'm wondering if that happened a while back, or in the last year or two?

It's been that way for several years at the very least.

[Kouralia]

When did the change happen? A quick google gives me an article from 2016 with RN enlisted rates being given skill at arms training on SA80s, so I'm wondering if that happened a while back, or in the last year or two?

It's been that way for several years at the very least.

Ah cool. Seems unlikely it would have changed in RN since then, so I'm fine with setting the Sailors to still train with rifles.

[Taihei Tengoku]

VBSS teams on most vessels are just task organized. It just isn't worth keeping a dozen bodies on the ship that don't do anything until it's time to fight a boarding action.

As for actual marines it's mostly whatever is traditional. USN battleships had a "Marine turret" that was crewed by its MARDET. On the Iowas it was somewhat more than a platoon but somewhat less than a company, that crewed one 5" turret and provided shore parties etc.

[Triplebaconation]

Small arms training in Navy basic has always been a joke, so they're not missing out on much. Every ship has enough rifle-qualified sailors for sentry duty, boarding parties, etc.

[Ormata]

tbf can't any sailor? Or do sailors not normally get any skill at arms/small unit manoeuvring training?

USN sailors no longer train on rifles in basic training, just pistols and shotguns, and I doubt they do any serious small unit combat training.

USN sailors no longer train on shotguns while in Basic Training, AKA Boot Camp.

EDIT: As for small unit combat training, none. Recruits are only taught in how to fire the pistol, how to properly draw it, how to switch grips, things like that. Proper stances. Nothing is done as far as small unit stuff for combat.

[New Visayan Islands]

USN sailors no longer train on rifles in basic training, just pistols and shotguns, and I doubt they do any serious small unit combat training.

USN sailors no longer train on shotguns while in Basic Training, AKA Boot Camp.

EDIT: As for small unit combat training, none. Recruits are only taught in how to fire the pistol, how to properly draw it, how to switch grips, things like that. Proper stances. Nothing is done as far as small unit stuff for combat.

I assume it's because things have gone to hell in a handbasket if a sailor has to grab a rifle.

[Ormata]

I assume it's because things have gone to hell in a handbasket if a sailor has to grab a rifle.

It's more due to the cost constraints and the fact that yeah, not every sailor needs to fire a gun.

[Kouralia]

So, what exactly do marines do on a warship at sea, or in battle?

[Ormata]

So, what exactly do marines do on a warship at sea, or in battle?

Not much. Fire Controlmen and Gunnery Mates honestly have most things covered between them in terms of shooting things. If possible I'd say Damage Control, but that's when all the Damage Controlmen are very, very dead.

[The Akasha Colony]

So, what exactly do marines do on a warship at sea, or in battle?

Not a lot that's unique or special, but that's been a growing trend for almost a century.

The days when ships needed a marine detachment to enforce order and occasionally land a shore party in small boats to go terrorize some natives for supplies are long gone. Most marine forces have found themselves either entirely dedicated to ground combat missions with a bit of amphibious or commando training (making them basically a part of the army) or slotting in to fill the same roles as sailors aboard warships (making them basically a part of the navy).

[Taihei Tengoku]

So, what exactly do marines do on a warship at sea, or in battle?

1) PT
2) stay in the rack, out of the way

[Ormata]

So, what exactly do marines do on a warship at sea, or in battle?

1) PT
2) stay in the rack, out of the way

And maintenance on their own gear. Helos and the like on LSDs, LHAs.

[Dostanuot Loj]

So, what exactly do marines do on a warship at sea, or in battle?

1) PT
2) stay in the rack, out of the way

3) reduce the shipboard supply of crayons

[Kassaran]

1) PT
2) stay in the rack, out of the way

3) reduce the shipboard supply of crayons

Oof.

Yeah, they pretty much just hang tight and do needed physical, weapon, and equipment maintenance until they arrive at their location.