NS Military Realism Consultancy Thread Mk X Purps Safe Space

[Questers]

i would have thought big fat brown cigar was more the type of thing you went in for

i prefer my cigars wrapped in the purest snow white

i can see some brown in there buddy

remember when i used to not shitpost on these threads???

[Minroz]

Which reminds me when you guys were talking about tanks in the last few posts, what does everyone think of the T-14 Armata, Russia's new main battle tank?

You reckoned it's good as they claim?

[Questers]

eventually yes

[Gallia-]

i prefer my cigars wrapped in the purest snow white

i can see some brown in there buddy

remember when i used to not shitpost on these threads???

we're all brown on the inside

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recent_Af ... ern_humans
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out_of_Asia_theory

[The Akasha Colony]

Which reminds me when you guys were talking about tanks in the last few posts, what does everyone think of the T-14 Armata, Russia's new main battle tank?

You reckoned it's good as they claim?

When they get everything working, perhaps. That they managed to finally get something they're officially willing to put into production is quite something. Developing a new main battle tank is not an especially cheap or easy task, especially one with such a different layout from Russia's existing MBTs. Whether it actually does everything they say it does, is another matter. There are a lot of questions left unanswered of the sort that will never be officially answered but that get teased out and pieced together over time.

Gun performance, ammunition performance, electronics performance, protection, etc. These are the things that every military brags about in very vague descriptors publicly to make their citizens feel safe, but for which no serious specifications are ever officially released. They're also, as you might imagine, rather important.

There's no doubt all manner of intelligence work on the part of Western intelligence agencies going into investigating Armata's performance (as well as the performance of pretty much every other weapon system that might be encountered), but in the public domain it will take some time before enough information leaks out and gets pieced together for any reasonable estimation to be made.

[Questers]

doubtless tank net will obtain a picture of its armour and use a scale on grainy MS paint pictures and guess a TE, coming to the conclusion that leopard 2 is superior

then damien will get ANGRY about it and tell everyone abram is king

[Gallia-]

damien is the hero eurotrash tanknet deserves

m1 better than challenger and leopard 2 and all other shitwagons

[Western Pacific Territories]

This is what the Mil Realism threads have dissolved into. This is cancer in it's purest form.

Then again though at least it's not IDT

[Puzikas]

Some of us at least try to keep that ship above water.

It's too bad I used to be a sailor so I naturally want to be in the water rip

doubtless tank net will obtain a picture of its armour and use a scale on grainy MS paint pictures and guess a TE, coming to the conclusion that leopard 2 is superior

then damien will get ANGRY about it and tell everyone abram is king

Top fuckin kek.


Somewhere out there I read an official statement about how the APS on the T-14 works and its really quite interesting.

Ofc it could be naturally interesting because it had gratuitous abouts of techno-babble in it.

I mean it's in Russian and it could naturally be delicious state media but its still a worthy read. If I find it I'll be sure to translate it and post it.
TL;DR of it though is tank does more thinking than Pytor the Driver does.

[Gallia-]

T-14 has the best APS because it just protects the top and the frontal arc.

Drive through all the Javelins and Milans to burn Peking.

[Puzikas]

It's Grozny all over again but this time no ones yelling into my headset telling me that the mine feild isn't real and I'm not complaining about how there isn't even water here.

[Western Pacific Territories]

Some of us at least try to keep that ship above water.

It's too bad I used to be a sailor so I naturally want to be in the water rip

Mate, IDT is deader than the Knyaz Suvorov

[Puzikas]

It should be at least
Yet it's received the same or slightly more posts than this thread over the same time span
This is why we need thread merger

16 year old Jane's AFV guide book.
I apparently just had this PDF sitting around so whatever.

[Militia of the Free]

It's Grozny all over again but this time no ones yelling into my headset telling me that the mine feild isn't real and I'm not complaining about how there isn't even water here.

That gave me PTSD.

I am amazed Grozny veterans haven't lobbied for replacing all MBTs with Shilkas or anything the like.

[Imperializt Russia]

i prefer my cigars wrapped in the purest snow white

i can see some brown in there buddy

remember when i used to not shitpost on these threads???

Maybe you should adopt the atonement process again?

[The Soodean Imperium]

Another of my Battalion ORBATs, this time the Marine Infantry. I retained the 40mm CTA on the IFVs on the assumption that Oyashimese designers reduced the propellant problems, and if not then it will make for an interesting writeup a few years from now. I also decided to go with 120mm gun-mortar-carriers instead of light tanks, which I'm putting in a separate Battalion whose elements would be cross-attached in practice. I also changed one company to Light Infantry, with more organic support; these could be deployed by helicopter to cut off enemy reinforcements, or by conventional landing craft to assist the first wave in securing a beachhead. The unit is Class 4 (ignore the url fail) with the latest service equipment available in 2015, as the Marine Infantry get priority over regular Army units in procurement. All combat vehicles are amphibious with propellers or waterjets, allowing them to swim the distance to the beach if necessary.

Is the headquarters adequate? Soviet and Russian Battalion HQs are pretty minimal so I ended up dumping in some Swiss and British things from Shipbucket ORBATs, IDK if it makes any sense though.
([url=http://iiwiki.com/images/thumb/9/91/Class_3_Mechanized_Marine_Battalion.png/800px-Class_3_Mechanized_Marine_Battalion.png]Image)[/url]

My only real comment is that it looks like you have a lot of snipers, I would expect less than 6 snipers/spotter pairs. You appear to have 12 such pairs. I feel like the light infantry company would be better as a regular company, and any missions it would have going to dedicated light infantry battalion, if one is around. At worst they can deploy by helicopter and simply meet up with their vehicles at another time, though I do note the light infantry company has ATGM's instead of manpads.

As I said in the caption, the point of the light infantry battalion is to deploy by helicopter (or landing boat) and meet up with its vehicles at another time. They get ATGMs because the rest of the IFVs have four NLOS/F&F ATGMs each, so I figured adding two dismounted ATGM teams to those companies would be trivial. Also because if deployed by helicopter to delay enemy reinforcements they would need to hold off tanks without having any vehicle support. I did consider having a separate battalion for this, but I ultimately turned it down on the basis that each LPD has four helicopters anyway and could thus land its own advance force independently rather than waiting for a second LPD with all the heliborne forces to arrive.

The snipers are indeed more than my regular BNs, possibly because I got carried away with "triangle rule" and "amphibious everything." If each of my helicopters can carry 12 passengers, then 1-2 sniper pairs can be deployed along with each reinforced light infantry platoon. They could also be sent ashore independently by light boats to perform reconnaissance, pick off important targets, or do whatever snipers do. That said, having four times as many snipers as marksmen is possibly excessive so I may trim it down and put them in amphi-jeeps instead.

All of this is more or less speculation though, I may look like I know what I'm doing but I really don't. I should probably increase the headquarters and the logistics tail (3 ARVs? Naval Aviation fire director?) but every time I do that I also have to make my LPDs bigger to fit it all.

[Militia of the Free]

My only real comment is that it looks like you have a lot of snipers, I would expect less than 6 snipers/spotter pairs. You appear to have 12 such pairs. I feel like the light infantry company would be better as a regular company, and any missions it would have going to dedicated light infantry battalion, if one is around. At worst they can deploy by helicopter and simply meet up with their vehicles at another time, though I do note the light infantry company has ATGM's instead of manpads.

As I said in the caption, the point of the light infantry battalion is to deploy by helicopter (or landing boat) and meet up with its vehicles at another time. They get ATGMs because the rest of the IFVs have four NLOS/F&F ATGMs each, so I figured adding two dismounted ATGM teams to those companies would be trivial. Also because if deployed by helicopter to delay enemy reinforcements they would need to hold off tanks without having any vehicle support. I did consider having a separate battalion for this, but I ultimately turned it down on the basis that each LPD has four helicopters anyway and could thus land its own advance force independently rather than waiting for a second LPD with all the heliborne forces to arrive.

The snipers are indeed more than my regular BNs, possibly because I got carried away with "triangle rule" and "amphibious everything." If each of my helicopters can carry 12 passengers, then 1-2 sniper pairs can be deployed along with each reinforced light infantry platoon. They could also be sent ashore independently by light boats to perform reconnaissance, pick off important targets, or do whatever snipers do. That said, having four times as many snipers as marksmen is possibly excessive so I may trim it down and put them in amphi-jeeps instead.

All of this is more or less speculation though, I may look like I know what I'm doing but I really don't. I should probably increase the headquarters and the logistics tail (3 ARVs? Naval Aviation fire director?) but every time I do that I also have to make my LPDs bigger to fit it all.

Why would you use snipers if you can have marksmen instead? They can work in the said team whilst snipers work on their own.

[Spirit of Hope]

My only real comment is that it looks like you have a lot of snipers, I would expect less than 6 snipers/spotter pairs. You appear to have 12 such pairs. I feel like the light infantry company would be better as a regular company, and any missions it would have going to dedicated light infantry battalion, if one is around. At worst they can deploy by helicopter and simply meet up with their vehicles at another time, though I do note the light infantry company has ATGM's instead of manpads.

As I said in the caption, the point of the light infantry battalion is to deploy by helicopter (or landing boat) and meet up with its vehicles at another time. They get ATGMs because the rest of the IFVs have four NLOS/F&F ATGMs each, so I figured adding two dismounted ATGM teams to those companies would be trivial. Also because if deployed by helicopter to delay enemy reinforcements they would need to hold off tanks without having any vehicle support. I did consider having a separate battalion for this, but I ultimately turned it down on the basis that each LPD has four helicopters anyway and could thus land its own advance force independently rather than waiting for a second LPD with all the heliborne forces to arrive.

That makes sense. I figured they had the ATGM's because there transports didn't have an equivalent system. If this unit is supposed to be able to operate semi independently then go ahead with them having a light infantry company.

The snipers are indeed more than my regular BNs, possibly because I got carried away with "triangle rule" and "amphibious everything." If each of my helicopters can carry 12 passengers, then 1-2 sniper pairs can be deployed along with each reinforced light infantry platoon. They could also be sent ashore independently by light boats to perform reconnaissance, pick off important targets, or do whatever snipers do. That said, having four times as many snipers as marksmen is possibly excessive so I may trim it down and put them in amphi-jeeps instead.

I feel like each platoon going ashore by helicopter doesn't need 1-2 sniper pairs. I figure you would probably be best making the sniper unit smaller and folding it in as part of the reconnaissance unit, since that is what part of there job is.

All of this is more or less speculation though, I may look like I know what I'm doing but I really don't. I should probably increase the headquarters and the logistics tail (3 ARVs? Naval Aviation fire director?) but every time I do that I also have to make my LPDs bigger to fit it all.

It looks good overall. A naval fire director or forward air controller would be good ideas, all they really need to be is a two or three guys with a jeep and a radio. Use the space freed up by reducing your sniper section, lets you keep the same unit size with more capability.

[Immoren]

Sniper platoon and recon platoon with markman/sniper assets is clearly best combination.
Recon platoon is battalion commanders eyes and ears, while sniper platoon is the marksman reserve of the Commander.

[The Soodean Imperium]

Why would you use snipers if you can have marksmen instead? They can work in the said team whilst snipers work on their own.

Because this is evolving out of a *not*Soviet organization, in which the SVD marksman is used to fill the empty space in the third vehicle of the platoon.

Come to think of it, though, I could reorganize each light infantry squad to include a marksman... one assault rifle out of 10 is not a high price to pay for semi-automatic precision fire. Especially when the platoon's job is to seize a small village or overlook point and try to delay enemy reinforcements approaching the beach.

I feel like each platoon going ashore by helicopter doesn't need 1-2 sniper pairs. I figure you would probably be best making the sniper unit smaller and folding it in as part of the reconnaissance unit, since that is what part of there job is.

Sniper platoon and recon platoon with markman/sniper assets is clearly best combination.
Recon platoon is battalion commanders eyes and ears, while sniper platoon is the marksman reserve of the Commander.

Possible idea: I might merge snipers and radar IFVs into a "reconnaissance company," add dismounts to the radar IFVs, and put a reduced number of sniper pairs (6 maybe?) in amphi-jeeps. Snipers can still be carried ashore by helicopter, either to support the light infantry platoon with long-range fire or to operate independently as light reconnaissance in depth. The smaller sniper complement would then free up more space for a naval fire director and a forward air controller, possibly in IFVs for larger radios and optics and better protection from small-arms fire and shell fragments.

Thoughts?

I will probably also add more recovery vehicles, because even though this logistics unit is a lot beefier than Soviet ones I am feeling inadequate next to Gallia's mechanized bn

[Imperializt Russia]

Ten rifles per squad? These sound like really big sections.

[Spirit of Hope]

Why would you use snipers if you can have marksmen instead? They can work in the said team whilst snipers work on their own.

Because this is evolving out of a *not*Soviet organization, in which the SVD marksman is used to fill the empty space in the third vehicle of the platoon.

Come to think of it, though, I could reorganize each light infantry squad to include a marksman... one assault rifle out of 10 is not a high price to pay for semi-automatic precision fire. Especially when the platoon's job is to seize a small village or overlook point and try to delay enemy reinforcements approaching the beach.

Just give whoever qualifies as the best marksmen in any squad a better optic, and a patch. Bam instant squad level marksmen, let him keep the assault rifle.

I feel like each platoon going ashore by helicopter doesn't need 1-2 sniper pairs. I figure you would probably be best making the sniper unit smaller and folding it in as part of the reconnaissance unit, since that is what part of there job is.

Sniper platoon and recon platoon with markman/sniper assets is clearly best combination.
Recon platoon is battalion commanders eyes and ears, while sniper platoon is the marksman reserve of the Commander.

Possible idea: I might merge snipers and radar IFVs into a "reconnaissance company," add dismounts to the radar IFVs, and put a reduced number of sniper pairs (6 maybe?) in amphi-jeeps. Snipers can still be carried ashore by helicopter, either to support the light infantry platoon with long-range fire or to operate independently as light reconnaissance in depth. The smaller sniper complement would then free up more space for a naval fire director and a forward air controller, possibly in IFVs for larger radios and optics and better protection from small-arms fire and shell fragments.

Thoughts?

Sounds good. I don't think the forward controllers need there own IFV, I would say they can use a jeep or catch a ride with platoon/company HQ's IFV's.

I will probably also add more recovery vehicles, because even though this logistics unit is a lot beefier than Soviet ones I am feeling inadequate next to Gallia's mechanized bn

If this is a landing unit I would argue for lighter logistics.

[Militia of the Free]

Because this is evolving out of a *not*Soviet organization, in which the SVD marksman is used to fill the empty space in the third vehicle of the platoon.

Come to think of it, though, I could reorganize each light infantry squad to include a marksman... one assault rifle out of 10 is not a high price to pay for semi-automatic precision fire. Especially when the platoon's job is to seize a small village or overlook point and try to delay enemy reinforcements approaching the beach.

Maybe you are using other terms, but usually a marksman is a specialist on longer range fire (around 500 meter and up) for a section (around 8 men I guess). A sniper, on the other hand, is together with a spotter a seperate team, which is the whole unit. Snipers usually have different assignments, usually stealthier due to being a two man team, than a marksman. Shooting enemy priority targets in combat whilst fighting with other units is usually a marksman.

From Wikipedia

The main difference between military marksmen and snipers is that marksmen are usually considered an organic part of a fireteam of soldiers and are never expected to operate independently, whereas snipers usually work alone or in very small teams.

Also, IFVs? IMO sounds a bit heavy for recce units. In the Dutch army we used primarily jeeps for that. But you can experiment with it.

[Gallia-]

Sniper platoon and recon platoon with markman/sniper assets is clearly best combination.
Recon platoon is battalion commanders eyes and ears, while sniper platoon is the marksman reserve of the Commander.

us army sbct infantry companies (everything old is new again so the US Army have reverted to WW2 sniper employment) have sniper sections (three snipers with 12.7mm/25mm (RIP OSW) and 7.62mm sniper rifles, and one sniper provides security with an M4/M203 but they can all serve the function of marksman

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... age631.jpg

imo putting them in the company is the best because you have a very powerful recce without needing to ask the battalion hq for scouts and you have organic counter-sniper ability

a sniper in every platoon, with something like an SVD or SDM-R, can supplement this further

h/e SBCT battalions also have sniper sections with two teams in them but theyre just the same as the company sniper teams, with the addition of a squad leader

[Immoren]

Sniper platoon and recon platoon with markman/sniper assets is clearly best combination.
Recon platoon is battalion commanders eyes and ears, while sniper platoon is the marksman reserve of the Commander.

us army sbct infantry companies (everything old is new again so the US Army have reverted to WW2 sniper employment) have sniper sections (three snipers with 12.7mm/25mm (RIP OSW) and 7.62mm sniper rifles, and one sniper provides security with an M4/M203 but they can all serve the function of marksman

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... age631.jpg

imo putting them in the company is the best because you have a very powerful recce without needing to ask the battalion hq for scouts and you have organic counter-sniper ability

a sniper in every platoon, with something like an SVD or SDM-R, can supplement this further

I was thinking snipers something like how APILAS was emplyed in Finnish M/91 battalions. Granted anti-tank troops and snipers are slightly different.
Like companies would have their own organic snipers, while battalion commander would have his own sniper unit to reinforce companies marksman assets or something, if needed.