NS Military Realism Consultancy Thread Mk X Purps Safe Space

[Purpelia]

Does purpelian culture push the idea that superiors should be obeyed without question or is it more individual with each expecting to hold themselves and be held responsible for thier own actions?

If it's the later then yeah everybody who took part gets done for it as they knew what was happening was wrong and still did it. Obviously the source of the order likely suffers worst.

Purpelian culture is best described as tribal. As in family > self. So it's not so much about obedience vs individuality as it is about the fact that those soldiers are "our boys" and the victims are "their boys". And our >> their.

[Palmyrion]

Can someone give me a good example of an air defense battery?

How about an air defense battalion utilizing:

• STMRAD (ex. 2K22 Tunguska)
• LORAD (ex. S-400)

[Allanea]

Can someone give me a good example of an air defense battery?

How about an air defense battalion utilizing:

• STMRAD (ex. 2K22 Tunguska)
• LORAD (ex. S-400)

You want to have your long range and short range AA separate, in entirely different units.

Tunguska is intended primarily to protect field units from bombs, missiles, and various tactical aircraft.

The primary goal of S-400 is to protect strategic assets (air bases, power plants, the capital city) from aircraft, cruise missiles, and ballistic missiles. They overlap somewhat but are really very different in purpose.

[New Vihenia]

hello everyone :3

lemme introduce you soon to come..radiometer range calculator :3

http://orig15.deviantart.net/9c32/f/201 ... af8ann.png

---
The purpose is clear to help calculating detection range of your radiometer system. Particularly the Millimeter wave system which seen use in Military.

I make it mainly to guess how far a mmwave radiometer can detect target. thinking of having AESA radar with built in mmw receiver Or having special radiometer mode.

still in WIP tho.. probably someone can point me to better source of range equation. as mine dated back to 1986. But i can't seem to find better one :3

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Can someone give me a good example of an air defense battery?

How about an air defense battalion utilizing:

• STMRAD (ex. 2K22 Tunguska)
• LORAD (ex. S-400)

You want to have your long range and short range AA separate, in entirely different units.

Tunguska is intended primarily to protect field units from bombs, missiles, and various tactical aircraft.

The primary goal of S-400 is to protect strategic assets (air bases, power plants, the capital city) from aircraft, cruise missiles, and ballistic missiles. They overlap somewhat but are really very different in purpose.

Relevant:
What should the divisional surface air defence range generally be? 30-40 km's?

[Husseinarti]

Can someone give me a good example of an air defense battery?

How about an air defense battalion utilizing:

• STMRAD (ex. 2K22 Tunguska)
• LORAD (ex. S-400)

You want to have your long range and short range AA separate, in entirely different units.

Tunguska is intended primarily to protect field units from bombs, missiles, and various tactical aircraft.

The primary goal of S-400 is to protect strategic assets (air bases, power plants, the capital city) from aircraft, cruise missiles, and ballistic missiles. They overlap somewhat but are really very different in purpose.

i.e. you'd use 2K22s to protect the S-400 launch sites.

That or Pantsirs.

[The Soodean Imperium]

Can someone give me a good example of an air defense battery?

How about an air defense battalion utilizing:

• STMRAD (ex. 2K22 Tunguska)
• LORAD (ex. S-400)

If you're a visual thinker, and don't mind trawling through the long list of other diagrams, Shipbucket's organization page has some Russian and Soviet Air Defense batteries and battalions. I believe all of them are units that would be assigned at the Brigade level.

In general these would include 2K22 Tunguska, 9A35 Strela-10, and some MANPADS like Strela-3 or Igla. Longer-range SAMs like Buk and S-300V would be subordinate to bigger units, like Divisions, Corps/Armies, and Armies/Fronts, which have to defend a larger area. Some of the Soviet ORBATs I've seen include a few MANPADS squads in long-range SAM units, possibly to defend the launch sites and command posts against threats that arrive unexpectedly at close range? But yes, in general the higher in organization you go the longer the range of the SAMs get, the air defense battery of a motor-rifle regiment doesn't need S-400s.

Relevant:
What should the divisional surface air defence range generally be? 30-40 km's?

Soviet divisional air defense was usually Kub or Buk, which had about that range. But I guess it also depends on the size and role of your divisions.

[Palmyrion]

Can someone give me a good example of an air defense battery?

How about an air defense battalion utilizing:

• STMRAD (ex. 2K22 Tunguska)
• LORAD (ex. S-400)

If you're a visual thinker, and don't mind trawling through the long list of other diagrams, Shipbucket's organization page has some Russian and Soviet Air Defense batteries and battalions. I believe all of them are units that would be assigned at the Brigade level.

In general these would include 2K22 Tunguska, 9A35 Strela-10, and some MANPADS like Strela-3 or Igla. Longer-range SAMs like Buk and S-300V would be subordinate to bigger units, like Divisions, Corps/Armies, and Armies/Fronts, which have to defend a larger area. Some of the Soviet ORBATs I've seen include a few MANPADS squads in long-range SAM units, possibly to defend the launch sites and command posts against threats that arrive unexpectedly at close range? But yes, in general the higher in organization you go the longer the range of the SAMs get, the air defense battery of a motor-rifle regiment doesn't need S-400s.

Relevant:
What should the divisional surface air defence range generally be? 30-40 km's?

Soviet divisional air defense was usually Kub or Buk, which had about that range. But I guess it also depends on the size and role of your divisions.

Thanks mate.

[Takhshiyt]

Do navies conduct snap exercises with their forces? Like for instance I want to conduct a exercise with a squadron of patrol boats and a squadron of missile boats to intercept a simulated naval force, and I was wondering if it would be normal to tell them to do the exercise without any prior warning?

Oh, and what kind of problems could that cause within naval squadrons?

I am really bad at navy stuff, so excuse my ignorance.

[Palmyrion]

My platoon's weapons squad currently has a team with a Multipurpose Assault Launcher (sort of like a launcher that can launch thermobaric, tandem HEAT ATGMs, and HEDP warheads, can swap between optically-guided and heat/radar seeking, can swap attack profiles between top attack and direct attack), a marksman, a recoilless rifle team, a GPMG (7.62mm machine guns) crew, and a sniper team (a sniper with an OSV-96 and an accompanying spotter), as well as their transport vehicle's crew (commander, gunner, driver).

Which of these guys must I remove, and what must I add?

[Imperializt Russia]

The sniper team (does not need to be attached at platoon, though can be assigned in practice, say, if conducting a patrol - Platoon level certainly doesn't need a dedicated spotter, unless it's a sniper team that has been assigned to that platoon for a certain mission), the recoilless rifle team (we already have an "assault launcher" which will be stealing most of a RCL Rifle's jobs, and why a team? Unless one member of the team is just an ammo monkey and the other is the gunner) and half the functions on that assault launcher.
Optical guidance, IR guidance and radar guidance require control panels, batteries and seeker heads big enough on their own and you want to stick all three on a single weapon platform that also serves as a dumb launcher as well?

You have a Javelin, which also has a Stinger target acquisition system and power source bolted on, as well as a TOW sight and somehow a radar radome as well.
I don't think there even are shoulder-launched radar-guided missiles.

Anti-tank guided missiles are a company or battalion asset (like say TOW), unless we're talking something like Javelin, in which case it should really only be IR fire-and-forget. Shoulder-launched SAMs are also a battalion asset, and are also typically IR F+F.
Radar-guided missiles are served by dedicated anti-air units and are static things unless self-propelled.

Weapons squad wants GPMGs, mortars and Javelins, really.

[Allanea]

Do navies conduct snap exercises with their forces? Like for instance I want to conduct a exercise with a squadron of patrol boats and a squadron of missile boats to intercept a simulated naval force, and I was wondering if it would be normal to tell them to do the exercise without any prior warning?

Oh, and what kind of problems could that cause within naval squadrons?

I am really bad at navy stuff, so excuse my ignorance.

http://news.sky.com/story/putin-orders- ... e-10367601

[Imperializt Russia]

Do navies conduct snap exercises with their forces? Like for instance I want to conduct a exercise with a squadron of patrol boats and a squadron of missile boats to intercept a simulated naval force, and I was wondering if it would be normal to tell them to do the exercise without any prior warning?

Oh, and what kind of problems could that cause within naval squadrons?

I am really bad at navy stuff, so excuse my ignorance.

http://news.sky.com/story/putin-orders- ... e-10367601

Do the professional western democracies do this? Or do we just wait around for the large pre-planned exercises?

I understand that in peacetime units set aside large amounts of time for training and exercises.

[The Akasha Colony]

Do navies conduct snap exercises with their forces? Like for instance I want to conduct a exercise with a squadron of patrol boats and a squadron of missile boats to intercept a simulated naval force, and I was wondering if it would be normal to tell them to do the exercise without any prior warning?

Oh, and what kind of problems could that cause within naval squadrons?

I am really bad at navy stuff, so excuse my ignorance.

The individual personnel might not be told in advance about a training exercise, but if for no reasons aside from the need for scenario planning and budgeting (exercises are not free), they still require a good deal of planning in advance. The commanding and overseeing officers, as well as the admiralty will certainly know about such exercises in advance, because they planned them. They're not really something a squadron commander in the field can suddenly order on the spot, aside from basic readiness drills.

[Crookfur]

My platoon's weapons squad currently has a team with a Multipurpose Assault Launcher (sort of like a launcher that can launch thermobaric, tandem HEAT ATGMs, and HEDP warheads, can swap between optically-guided and heat/radar seeking, can swap attack profiles between top attack and direct attack), a marksman, a recoilless rifle team, a GPMG (7.62mm machine guns) crew, and a sniper team (a sniper with an OSV-96 and an accompanying spotter), as well as their transport vehicle's crew (commander, gunner, driver).

Which of these guys must I remove, and what must I add?

Honestly if the launcher thingy is lightish like javelin shove it down to the sections/squads or if it's heavier shove it up to an ATGM platoon in the battalion support company. Marksmen really should be in the sections/squads or maybe in the HQ.
Sniper teams work best at higher level so they can organise themselves as needed so off they go the a sniper/recce platoon in the battalion support company.
No real need for a recoiless rifle if you have a multi role rocket launcher. Maybe you could keep it if it's a Charlie G and can lob smoke etc in which case it could go in the HQ instead of a light mortar.

Basically you want a pair or trio (depending on the room in the wagon) of GPMG teams with tripods in the support squad.

As for the multi purpose missile thing just use IR guidance and stick some aluminium in the warhead of your HEDP round so it has a thermobaric effect.

[Palmyrion]

The sniper team (does not need to be attached at platoon, though can be assigned in practice, say, if conducting a patrol - Platoon level certainly doesn't need a dedicated spotter, unless it's a sniper team that has been assigned to that platoon for a certain mission), the recoilless rifle team (we already have an "assault launcher" which will be stealing most of a RCL Rifle's jobs, and why a team? Unless one member of the team is just an ammo monkey and the other is the gunner) and half the functions on that assault launcher.
Optical guidance, IR guidance and radar guidance require control panels, batteries and seeker heads big enough on their own and you want to stick all three on a single weapon platform that also serves as a dumb launcher as well?

You have a Javelin, which also has a Stinger target acquisition system and power source bolted on, as well as a TOW sight and somehow a radar radome as well.
I don't think there even are shoulder-launched radar-guided missiles.

Anti-tank guided missiles are a company or battalion asset (like say TOW), unless we're talking something like Javelin, in which case it should really only be IR fire-and-forget. Shoulder-launched SAMs are also a battalion asset, and are also typically IR F+F.
Radar-guided missiles are served by dedicated anti-air units and are static things unless self-propelled.

Weapons squad wants GPMGs, mortars and Javelins, really.

So, my weapons squad gonna have an "assault launcher"* team, a mortar team, and a GPMG team?

*assault launcher: IR homing; can use thermobaric, tandem HEAT (1,200mm RHAe penetration), or HEDP (I want to blow up entire rooms or, if possible, building facades like how they did it in Hunger Games Mockingjay Pt. 2). 127mm warhead. Is my multipurpose assault launcher concept viable, if not existing?

[Imperializt Russia]

A 140mm warhead would be very large. You would probably lose manportability, which would basically render this a vehicle-mounted weapon, or a battalion-level dedicated tank-hunter asset.

Javelin is 127mm calibre.
I see you have edited down to 127mm already, so fair enough.

Why incorporate laser SACLOS on top of IR homing? The system necessary for such a system would again, make it a very large and unwieldy control unit.
Javelin is already capable of engaging fortifications in direct-attack profile, because targets will almost always be differentiated from its surroundings in how it reflects IR radiation, and can be targeted.

You might as well just describe the weapon as not-Javelin, or adopt Javelin.

HEAT will be effective against basically all targets. If you want multi-warhead capability, this should probably be the role of a lightweight dumb launcher at the squad level, or otherwise by grenade launchers.

I would suggest a weapon squad have at least two MG teams, and act as an oversized "squad", since it doesn't have to be as flexible as rifle squads, and will operate dispersed anyway.

[Allanea]

How hard would it be to put small electric motors into a PG-7 rocket to get it to move its fins about for steering?

[Imperializt Russia]

Probably very, since isn't the entire tail section made of rocket motor?
In any case, it's probably not suitable anyway. I once suggested fitting a sort of "semi-guidance" package to FROG-7 in order to improve its accuracy and reduce its splash zone, but I was told that basically the entire rocket body would need to be changed, and at that point, it's not really FROG-7 anymore.

Then again, CRV-7PG is a thing.

[Palmyrion]

A 140mm warhead would be very large. You would probably lose manportability, which would basically render this a vehicle-mounted weapon, or a battalion-level dedicated tank-hunter asset.

Javelin is 127mm calibre.
I see you have edited down to 127mm already, so fair enough.

Why incorporate laser SACLOS on top of IR homing? The system necessary for such a system would again, make it a very large and unwieldy control unit.
Javelin is already capable of engaging fortifications in direct-attack profile, because targets will almost always be differentiated from its surroundings in how it reflects IR radiation, and can be targeted.

You might as well just describe the weapon as not-Javelin, or adopt Javelin.

HEAT will be effective against basically all targets. If you want multi-warhead capability, this should probably be the role of a lightweight dumb launcher at the squad level, or otherwise by grenade launchers.

I would suggest a weapon squad have at least two MG teams, and act as an oversized "squad", since it doesn't have to be as flexible as rifle squads, and will operate dispersed anyway.

Can I have a 127mm ATGM that can punch through 1,200mm RHAe?

Besides, it's a not-Javelin. Our R&D paths have gone independent of Soviets since 1986 (read my super-brief canon of the 1976 Palmyrian Civil War in my factbook), and entirely independent of the US since the dawn of time(never had any contact with the United States). We're stuck with Soviet weaponry for now, but this "multipurpose assault launcher" is a new addition to the Palmyrian armory, to work alongside (and eventually replace) the Konkurs that we still have in stock. I would like to call it...9-Mike-1-4-3 "Hugot".

[Allanea]

I'm thinking of something like the Pike missile, but longer and bigger, and designed to be shot out of an RPG-7.

[Allanea]

Can I have a 127mm ATGM that can punch through 1,200mm RHAe?

I am not sure why you need to.

Javelin comes in through the roof.

I came in like a wrecking ball
I hit the turret hatch from above
I showered all the crew in spall...

[Anemos Major]

My platoon's weapons squad currently has a team with a Multipurpose Assault Launcher (sort of like a launcher that can launch thermobaric, tandem HEAT ATGMs, and HEDP warheads, can swap between optically-guided and heat/radar seeking, can swap attack profiles between top attack and direct attack)

This is silly, also potentially rather expensive, also potentially a case of jack of all trades finding it hard to be masters of anything. Given that ATGMs need their own specific CLUs for their guidance systems, it'd probably be a better idea to do what most modern militaries do and stick to the tried and tested formula of a) dumb/semi-smart multipurpose launcher(s) b) a light, or perhaps a series of light, ATGMs for infantry use. The former (a) would be your RPG-7s, your CGs, your PzF3/Bunkerfausts - you can make them 'semi-smart' by hitching laser rangefinders and smart sights onto the launch tubes, but by and large when you have a weapon that's meant to pour all sorts of munitions on a variety of targets it's a pertinent idea to keep costs down. The latter (b) can be anything from Eryx/MBT LAW (range of 600m~1km) to Javelin (nearly 5km) at smaller infantry unit levels - as far as having multiple guidance options is concerned, there's no good reason off the top of my mind as to why you'd need to simultaneously issue IR and radar seeking missiles to your infantry. Do what all the cool kids do - have it top-attack capable against armoured targets, direct-attack fire capable for fortified positions etc, and issue both a tandem HEAT warhead and a bunkerbusting missile of some sort.

How hard would it be to put small electric motors into a PG-7 rocket to get it to move its fins about for steering?

As a non-tube diameter constrained launcher, surely one has more flexibility in appending things to and generally altering the RPG-7's ammunition?

[Palmyrion]

Can I have a 127mm ATGM that can punch through 1,200mm RHAe?

I am not sure why you need to.

Javelin comes in through the roof.

I came in like a wrecking ball
I hit the turret hatch from above
I showered all the crew in spall...

So I don't need to, then?

Yeah, that’s right, I like ATGMs top attack, yeah

This is silly, also potentially rather expensive, also potentially a case of jack of all trades finding it hard to be masters of anything. Given that ATGMs need their own specific CLUs for their guidance systems, it'd probably be a better idea to do what most modern militaries do and stick to the tried and tested formula of a) dumb/semi-smart multipurpose launcher(s) b) a light, or perhaps a series of light, ATGMs for infantry use. The former (a) would be your RPG-7s, your CGs, your PzF3/Bunkerfausts - you can make them 'semi-smart' by hitching laser rangefinders and smart sights onto the launch tubes, but by and large when you have a weapon that's meant to pour all sorts of munitions on a variety of targets it's a pertinent idea to keep costs down. The latter (b) can be anything from Eryx/MBT LAW (range of 600m~1km) to Javelin (nearly 5km) at smaller infantry unit levels - as far as having multiple guidance options is concerned, there's no good reason off the top of my mind as to why you'd need to simultaneously issue IR and radar seeking missiles to your infantry. Do what all the cool kids do - have it top-attack capable against armoured targets, direct-attack fire capable for fortified positions etc, and issue both a tandem HEAT warhead and a bunkerbusting missile of some sort.

Just the answer I've been looking for. Can I place my not-Javelins in the weapons squad?

[Spirit of Hope]

How hard would it be to put small electric motors into a PG-7 rocket to get it to move its fins about for steering?

As a non-tube diameter constrained launcher, surely one has more flexibility in appending things to and generally altering the RPG-7's ammunition?

No one move, you might scare Anemos away.

I think the problem with trying to make a guided RPG-7 is, as Imperializt, noted the fact that behind the warhead is only a rocket. You could probably make something that fits in the RPG launcher that would have some kind of guidance system, I'm just not sure how you would set it up. The launcher really has no set up for a guidance system. Forgotten Weapons did do a video on the RPG though, so you can look at that for a better idea.