NS Military Realism Consultancy Thread Mk X Purps Safe Space

[Kazarogkai]

15 y/o conscripts lol

why is kaz so obsessed with child soldiers rly

most conscripts are 18+ adults

the most pure society israel pays its conscripts essentially stipends with the expectation that theyll be partially supported by their parents or something

israel cannot really be considered "poorly trained" although it has only ever fought arabs which is like the tutorial level of war so maybe theyre just overly inflated

Under the international rules of war a 15 year old is not a child, they are a young adult. That is what I was generally referencing. Aka most conscripts are young adults and are unlikely to have families to support.

[Langenberg]

Are't most conscripts pretty young; like in the 15-25 range? Outside of reserve conscripts it's doubtful they would have families unless your talking about their parent's and siblings. Still it seems like a good idea to pay them, let them buy something nice and have some experience dealing with money. Since for some it might be the first time they got a proper wage.

Your average conscript is going to be no less than 17 years, usually 18, same as enlistees. Conscription =/= child soldiers. Such people often have a home, and they may well have a desire to have something to send back to support their relations.

[Confederation of the Equator]

What kinds of ships and how many should be used to strike an enemy navy still at their own ports?

[Kazarogkai]

What kinds of ships and how many should be used to strike an enemy navy still at their own ports?

Submarines would be pretty good, torpedo boats too depending on the era. Frogmen seem to have been especially skilled at this craft

[EsToVnIa]

alemannia has 9-to-27 month long conscription (because <3 the #9) for like 18-to-26 yo

they get free housing, food, etc during their service

plus like a 8 euro monthly stipend that usually goes to like pay for cigs or some other unhealthy habit

women conscripts get like an extra 6 euros since they have to buy bras, tampons, and toiletries

an equal society is a dead society or smth

[The Corparation]

What kinds of ships and how many should be used to strike an enemy navy still at their own ports?

Either aircraft from a carrier or frogmen deployed via submarine as kaz said. In either case your vessel would ideally not even need to get close to the enemy port. The carrier can deploy it's air wing from a couple hundred miles away. A Sub would have to get closer, but how close would depend on how good your swimmer delivery vehicles are.

[Triplebaconation]

Swimmer delivery vehicles with torpedoes.

[Western Pacific Territories]

What kinds of ships and how many should be used to strike an enemy navy still at their own ports?

You could use frogmen, but use Kaitens instead. If you use frogmen you risk the crew being captured pushing the torpedos. With Kaitens, the crew will never be captured.

[Allanea]

What kinds of ships and how many should be used to strike an enemy navy still at their own ports?

You could use frogmen, but use Kaitens instead. If you use frogmen you risk the crew being captured pushing the torpedos. With Kaitens, the crew will never be captured.

Kaitens are fucknig dumb.

They didn't work then and they won't work now.

If you can launch Kaitens you can launch torpedoes.

[Imperializt Russia]

Are't most conscripts pretty young; like in the 15-25 range? Outside of reserve conscripts it's doubtful they would have families unless your talking about their parent's and siblings. Still it seems like a good idea to pay them, let them buy something nice and have some experience dealing with money. Since for some it might be the first time they got a proper wage.

Your average conscript is going to be no less than 17 years, usually 18, same as enlistees. Conscription =/= child soldiers. Such people often have a home, and they may well have a desire to have something to send back to support their relations.

According to the UN, children as young as 15 can legally fight in an organised military or paramilitary.
It is children under the age of 15 that classify as "child soldiers".

[Husseinarti]

Because then you can quell the "Conscription = slavery" arguments in wider society. You don't pay slaves, after all.

Not to mention conscripts often have families, and while most of their own material needs are met during training and service, they can send the pay home. Alternatively, they can use it to buy luxuries not available through military issue, or to have spending money when they go on leave.

Are't most conscripts pretty young; like in the 15-25 range? Outside of reserve conscripts it's doubtful they would have families unless your talking about their parent's and siblings. Still it seems like a good idea to pay them, let them buy something nice and have some experience dealing with money. Since for some it might be the first time they got a proper wage.

The Chinrse rocked like 8 year old soldiers in WW2. Mostly for ammo running iirc

[Schwere Panzer Abteilung 502]

How much did industrialization change the marching speed of an army? I realize this is a pretty broad question, so bear with me; in pre-industrialized societies, soldiers generally equipped themselves through the army's baggage train and got food by foraging or pillaging. Was this the same in postindustrial societies? In other words, would a 1750s-1800s army be able to go at the same speed and maintain combat effectiveness as a 1910s-1940s army?

[Imperializt Russia]

Absolutely not.

Until the 1850s, armies still had to practically live off the land.
The train really revolutionised things, and we call WWI the era of "industrial warfare" for a reason.

[Crookfur]

Absolutely not.

Until the 1850s, armies still had to practically live off the land.
The train really revolutionised things, and we call WWI the era of "industrial warfare" for a reason.

Actually from the 1700s on troops, in Europe at least, relied more or less purely on the wagon train and forraging other than that carried by official parties was severely dealt with.

The movement of the supply train became increasingly important, a lot of Marlborough's successful came down to the fact that he a superbly organised supply train that was also faster as it used newer and faster wagon designs.

Of course the arrival of the train and the the automobile completely revolutionised the speed and volume of supplies that could be carried. Troops didn't march any faster but they didn't have to march as far and thier logistics could keep with them over much greater distances.

[Scandinavian Nations]

Until the 1850s, armies still had to practically live off the land.

Way sooner. More like until the 300s BC. The Roman military was all about the logistics (much more so than about the fighting), and Alexander the Great already tilted the balance towards integral logistic support.

According to the UN, children as young as 15 can legally fight in an organised military or paramilitary.

Just one more in the already a hundred reams long list of reasons to get rid of this WW2 atavism.

[Triplebaconation]

Your average conscript is going to be no less than 17 years, usually 18, same as enlistees. Conscription =/= child soldiers. Such people often have a home, and they may well have a desire to have something to send back to support their relations.

According to the UN, children as young as 15 can legally fight in an organised military or paramilitary.
It is children under the age of 15 that classify as "child soldiers".

do what now

[Allanea]

The Parties to the conflict shall take all feasible measures in order that children who have not attained the age of fifteen years do not take a direct part in hostilities and, in particular, they shall refrain from recruiting them into their armed forces. In recruiting among those persons who have attained the age of fifteen years but who have not attained the age of eighteen years, the Parties to the conflict shall endeavour to give priority to those who are oldest.

I assume he means this.

[Allanea]

Guys, how would you feel about me doing another informative?

[Triplebaconation]

The Parties to the conflict shall take all feasible measures in order that children who have not attained the age of fifteen years do not take a direct part in hostilities and, in particular, they shall refrain from recruiting them into their armed forces. In recruiting among those persons who have attained the age of fifteen years but who have not attained the age of eighteen years, the Parties to the conflict shall endeavour to give priority to those who are oldest.

I assume he means this.

The current UN standard is 18, and has been since the Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child was adopted.

Conscripting children under 15 is a war crime, but that doesn't mean that conscripting under 18s isn't a human rights violation.

[North Arkana]

... So... had a field ex where we played the OPFOR to a NatGuard unit...
I'm... appalled...
Dismounts were separated from the vehicles before contact was even made, more "safety kills" than firing kills occurred because the OPFOR was able to close the distance that much without being detected during the phase where OPFOR was on defense, and then the night attack portion, where OPFOR was offense, while still technically a loss, inflicted heavier losses on a force 5 times our size who had NVGs while we didn't, and 1 up-armored Humvee was destroyed because an OPFOR soldier was able to close the range undetected, "kill" the gunner, and then open the door which wasn't combat locked, and "kill" everyone else inside.

Okay, with that out of the way, is there any way to get at least a better degree of competency into NatGuard style units without making too big a dent into the whole "part-time military" setup they work with?

[Allanea]

Part-time soldiers aren't meant to be fully competent and that's okay....

Sometimes people – both livejournal hamsters and experienced people say one and the same thing: “If someone attacks or country, we're fucked. Nobody will defend our country, the Army is screwed, we will just wait for people to come and slaughter us.” I am so fucking tired of this shit, I decided to explain.

Dear friend. Let me explain what will actually happen.

Imagine war has started. NATO struck first. Partly with nuclear weapons, but mostly with conventionals. Our Army has tried something, it didn't work, the enemy tanks are crossing the border, the main line units are crushed and routed, and are fleeing East with minimal resistance. The Abrams tanks are moving towards Moscow.

This is where the beliefs of the LJ Hamsters differ from reality. Here's what would happen when the right people would realize what is going on.

Someone will knock on your door.

Open it and you will see a hungover cop, an even more hungover police lieutenant, and a pair of soldiers. They will give you a notice. It will say you are ordered by the Commander in Chief to report to service. You must collect your stuff now and leave now, or you will be arrested.

You will understand they outnumber you. They are stronger. You will grab some clothes and a supply of socks and leave. In the yard you will see a bus, old and dirty. Maybe two. In the buses you will see your neighbors. The same people you see every day walking to your Toyota Corola. You will be taken to a training center. They are not called that today, but they can be rebuilt. Of course, there won't be glass in the windows, you will use the mattress for a blanket, but that's okay. You won't die of it.

They'll teach you quickly. You'll dig a dozen trenches. You'll shoot a few hundred AK rounds, stab a dried-out scarecrow with your bayonet. Throw fake grenades a dozen times. Once you will run across a field, shooting blank rounds as you run, as firecrackers explode everywhere. Yo will do the same at night, with illumination rockets glowing overhead. You will not understand quite what you're doing. There'll be a few guys there that'll shoot a dozen or two rounds from grenade launchers. That won't be you.

Then you will be sent to war.

You will meet others who learned to shoot cannon taken from storage. One of these cannon will be stamped '1956'. There will be others – they will have confiscated civilian KAMAZ and ZIL trucks, hastily painted olive green. There will be senior commanders, professionals, and they will look at you with fear and pity in their eyes.

There will be soldiers that started to serve for real – and you will ask them everything you can think of , understanding instinctively that what you know is not enough to survive.

You will have a scratched-up steel helmet – not like the one you saw on TV before the war. You will have no flak jacket. There won't be enough. You will have jackboots, not modern boots. But you'll be lucky not to be wearing a Soviet uniform. Some will wear trench-coats and even older stuff.

On the last day a grim, grey-hared general with a big fat belly will come. He will give your commander a banner and will say that you – all of you together- are the 105th Mechanized Infantry Brigade. Bear this name with pride, he will say. He hopes you will do your duty.

The regular army – with real tanks, real soldiers, kevlar helmets and shoes, is dead. You are all that is left.

In the morning you will be given anti-tank weapons. The lucky ones will be given single-use RPGs. You'll get old, heavy AT grenades. Two of them. The system administrator who will be after you on the list will not even have an AK, only an SKS carbine. And he won't be alone like that.

Then you will take your confiscated trucks, tow the elderly cannon, and begin to deployed.

The other units will get bombed. You will see burning trucks and corpses. But you will deploy and entrench. You will be given vodka and you will take turns drinking the horrible, smelly drink from the bottle because they will have forgotten the cups.

And then your pathetic force will fight against hordes of hight-tech tanks, robos, helicopters and planes. Hell itself will be opened around you, and just before the first explosion in your trenches you will understand, with horror, just how stronger the enemy is.

And then they will assault, ad you will try to stop them with your assault rifle and two hand-grenades. And the sisadmin – with his carbine and one grenade. And you'll think the world has ended.

But you know what?

You will stop them. Yes. You will. Then you will stop them elsewhere. Then they will start running, and you will place our flag on the ruins of their capital.

And if you die the sysadmin will. If he dies too, it will be the faggy-looking dude that sells cellphones in the store in front of your house. Or the waste-of-flesh shitbag you beat up for urinating in your appartment building staircase. Someone will do it.

Because they need to be stopped. Because if they are not stopped, the universe will be covered in darkness, and humanity will end. Everything will end.

Remember: they have always been stopped. Even though they've always been stronger. And this time the honor belongs to you, little hamster.

Because there's nobody else who can.

Good luck.

[Western Pacific Territories]

You could use frogmen, but use Kaitens instead. If you use frogmen you risk the crew being captured pushing the torpedos. With Kaitens, the crew will never be captured.

Kaitens are fucknig dumb.

They didn't work then and they won't work now.

If you can launch Kaitens you can launch torpedoes.

Bbbbbbbbbut muh suicide torpedos of gloriushnesh

Are't most conscripts pretty young; like in the 15-25 range? Outside of reserve conscripts it's doubtful they would have families unless your talking about their parent's and siblings. Still it seems like a good idea to pay them, let them buy something nice and have some experience dealing with money. Since for some it might be the first time they got a proper wage.

The Chinrse rocked like 8 year old soldiers in WW2. Mostly for ammo running iirc

That's the thing though, it was WWII era China. I wouldn't be surprised if there's at least one report stating that Chinese conscripts would literally be forced to charge a Japanese gun nest without a gun and be told "You have to kill the Japs with your bare hands, young Chu. Now, if you don't charge the MG I will shoot you. CHARGEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[North Arkana]

Part-time soldiers aren't meant to be fully competent and that's okay....

Sometimes people – both livejournal hamsters and experienced people say one and the same thing: “If someone attacks or country, we're fucked. Nobody will defend our country, the Army is screwed, we will just wait for people to come and slaughter us.” I am so fucking tired of this shit, I decided to explain.

Dear friend. Let me explain what will actually happen.

Imagine war has started. NATO struck first. Partly with nuclear weapons, but mostly with conventionals. Our Army has tried something, it didn't work, the enemy tanks are crossing the border, the main line units are crushed and routed, and are fleeing East with minimal resistance. The Abrams tanks are moving towards Moscow.

This is where the beliefs of the LJ Hamsters differ from reality. Here's what would happen when the right people would realize what is going on.

Someone will knock on your door.

Open it and you will see a hungover cop, an even more hungover police lieutenant, and a pair of soldiers. They will give you a notice. It will say you are ordered by the Commander in Chief to report to service. You must collect your stuff now and leave now, or you will be arrested.

You will understand they outnumber you. They are stronger. You will grab some clothes and a supply of socks and leave. In the yard you will see a bus, old and dirty. Maybe two. In the buses you will see your neighbors. The same people you see every day walking to your Toyota Corola. You will be taken to a training center. They are not called that today, but they can be rebuilt. Of course, there won't be glass in the windows, you will use the mattress for a blanket, but that's okay. You won't die of it.

They'll teach you quickly. You'll dig a dozen trenches. You'll shoot a few hundred AK rounds, stab a dried-out scarecrow with your bayonet. Throw fake grenades a dozen times. Once you will run across a field, shooting blank rounds as you run, as firecrackers explode everywhere. Yo will do the same at night, with illumination rockets glowing overhead. You will not understand quite what you're doing. There'll be a few guys there that'll shoot a dozen or two rounds from grenade launchers. That won't be you.

Then you will be sent to war.

You will meet others who learned to shoot cannon taken from storage. One of these cannon will be stamped '1956'. There will be others – they will have confiscated civilian KAMAZ and ZIL trucks, hastily painted olive green. There will be senior commanders, professionals, and they will look at you with fear and pity in their eyes.

There will be soldiers that started to serve for real – and you will ask them everything you can think of , understanding instinctively that what you know is not enough to survive.

You will have a scratched-up steel helmet – not like the one you saw on TV before the war. You will have no flak jacket. There won't be enough. You will have jackboots, not modern boots. But you'll be lucky not to be wearing a Soviet uniform. Some will wear trench-coats and even older stuff.

On the last day a grim, grey-hared general with a big fat belly will come. He will give your commander a banner and will say that you – all of you together- are the 105th Mechanized Infantry Brigade. Bear this name with pride, he will say. He hopes you will do your duty.

The regular army – with real tanks, real soldiers, kevlar helmets and shoes, is dead. You are all that is left.

In the morning you will be given anti-tank weapons. The lucky ones will be given single-use RPGs. You'll get old, heavy AT grenades. Two of them. The system administrator who will be after you on the list will not even have an AK, only an SKS carbine. And he won't be alone like that.

Then you will take your confiscated trucks, tow the elderly cannon, and begin to deployed.

The other units will get bombed. You will see burning trucks and corpses. But you will deploy and entrench. You will be given vodka and you will take turns drinking the horrible, smelly drink from the bottle because they will have forgotten the cups.

And then your pathetic force will fight against hordes of hight-tech tanks, robos, helicopters and planes. Hell itself will be opened around you, and just before the first explosion in your trenches you will understand, with horror, just how stronger the enemy is.

And then they will assault, ad you will try to stop them with your assault rifle and two hand-grenades. And the sisadmin – with his carbine and one grenade. And you'll think the world has ended.

But you know what?

You will stop them. Yes. You will. Then you will stop them elsewhere. Then they will start running, and you will place our flag on the ruins of their capital.

And if you die the sysadmin will. If he dies too, it will be the faggy-looking dude that sells cellphones in the store in front of your house. Or the waste-of-flesh shitbag you beat up for urinating in your appartment building staircase. Someone will do it.

Because they need to be stopped. Because if they are not stopped, the universe will be covered in darkness, and humanity will end. Everything will end.

Remember: they have always been stopped. Even though they've always been stronger. And this time the honor belongs to you, little hamster.

Because there's nobody else who can.

Good luck.

... That sounds like Putin's wet dream.

[Imperializt Russia]

I assume he means this.

The current UN standard is 18, and has been since the Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child was adopted.

Conscripting children under 15 is a war crime, but that doesn't mean that conscripting under 18s isn't a human rights violation.

Find it a little strange that the resolution on child soldiers doesn't see fit to mention that is the case.

[Imperializt Russia]

Until the 1850s, armies still had to practically live off the land.

Way sooner. More like until the 300s BC. The Roman military was all about the logistics (much more so than about the fighting), and Alexander the Great already tilted the balance towards integral logistic support.

I was under the impression that it wasn't until the advent of "portable" cooking stoves around the time of the Crimean War that soldiers could be reasonably be expected to be supplied with food in the field.