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Crookfur
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Crookfur » Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:37 am

Gallia- wrote:ace combat erf when

Ace combat is for losers. G-loc and afterburner are where it's at.

Edit: removal of awesome typos.
Last edited by Crookfur on Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Allanea
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Allanea » Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:38 am

There are some problems.

The runway length required for a Tu-160 (I would assume a B1 is comparable) is about 1800 meters landing and 2200 takeoff.

The wingspan is 42 meters.

So you'd need to have an incredibly long and wide aircraft carrier for it to take off and land.

Possibly you can assemble one of these Mobile Offshore Base things for it?
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Gallia-
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gallia- » Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:40 am

MOB was notionally going to be 2 km in length.

It's for handling C-17s and moving things to shore, not staging massive bombers. The latter are why carriers and Diego Garcia exist.

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Allanea
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Postby Allanea » Thu Aug 04, 2016 6:31 am

Gallia- wrote:MOB was notionally going to be 2 km in length.

It's for handling C-17s and moving things to shore, not staging massive bombers. The latter are why carriers and Diego Garcia exist.


Yes, I know.

I am saying that you could repurpose it if you insisted.
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Mancunian Northumbria
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Founded: Jul 14, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Mancunian Northumbria » Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:22 am

How much of a threat is ERA of an IFV to the infantry its supporting if it gets hit by and RPG?

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Imperializt Russia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Imperializt Russia » Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:24 am

Mancunian Northumbria wrote:How much of a threat is ERA of an IFV to the infantry its supporting if it gets hit by and RPG?

The RPG will have a wider fragmentation cone, probably. So likely, it's not substantially worrisome.
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Gallia-
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gallia- » Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:38 am

Allanea wrote:
Gallia- wrote:MOB was notionally going to be 2 km in length.

It's for handling C-17s and moving things to shore, not staging massive bombers. The latter are why carriers and Diego Garcia exist.


Yes, I know.

I am saying that you could repurpose it if you insisted.


Except you probably couldn't because as I said, its maximum length was 2 km.

You could possibly string together floaties to make a 3 km runway, sure, but that's not MOB. Probably not really all that similar either, since the purpose is staging bombers, but at that point why aren't you using a carrier until you can get basing rights? That's literally why carriers exist.

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Allanea
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Postby Allanea » Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:52 am

Probably you could find a stratbomber that can take off 2 km.

Tu-95 requires 1500 meters.
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The Technocratic Syndicalists
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Technocratic Syndicalists » Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:40 am

Allanea wrote:Probably you could find a stratbomber that can take off 2 km.

Tu-95 requires 1500 meters.


B-2 has a takeoff distance of around 2km at MTOW
Last edited by The Technocratic Syndicalists on Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Akasha Colony
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Akasha Colony » Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:32 pm

New Axiom wrote:Without access to the Internet, the majority of the general populace wouldn't be able to get news, therefore they would be completely cut off, which means you could invade unexpectedly. I mean, there'd still be radio and television but they still get most of their info from the Internet as well. Besides, the population would riot! They wouldn't be able to play nationstates and their account would be deleted!


The problem is that this would degrade the internet globally. Especially if the targeted nation happens to also be home to a huge array of critical internet services that operate globally. You can't just cut North America out of the internet and expect everyone else to chug along just fine. It would be a global economic problem, and it would get a lot of uninvolved nations very angry for something that causes no real harm to the enemy's actual military readiness.

All militaries are very aware of the potential dangers of over-reliance on cable communications. Undersea cables have been tapped or cut since the very beginning (over a century ago), when they only carried telegraphs. This is nothing new, and all militaries worth anything have plenty of alternative means of communication, and in many if not most cases prefer these to cables because they're more secure. The US military for instance operates a large network of satellites, and this is aside from the availability of civilian and allied military networks.

Meinkraft wrote:I've had an idea to create an aircraft carrier. This carrier shall be approximately double to thrice the size of the Independence-class aircraft carrier. Using a CATOBAR system, it will propel heavy and strategic bombers to lift off. On this vessel, the command tower is built into the side of the hull instead of being an actual tower, to allow for larger wingspans. Speaking of hulls, I intend for the hull to be a catamaran design. The ship is to have no weapons systems, but allows for a small onboard helo and countermeasures.

Now, I don't intend to launch B-52s off of this. I just want to use B-1 Lancers. It will not be a storage for the planes, but merely a stop point for restocking and refueling, before going for another strike.

Thoughts, threadmembers?


If you need refueling, just use a tanker aircraft. Then you can just fly them from your home bases to any targets you might identify.
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Velkanika
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Velkanika » Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:35 pm

New Axiom wrote:Without access to the Internet, the majority of the general populace wouldn't be able to get news, therefore they would be completely cut off, which means you could invade unexpectedly. I mean, there'd still be radio and television but they still get most of their info from the Internet as well. Besides, the population would riot! They wouldn't be able to play nationstates and their account would be deleted!

The Internet is extremely resistant to damage by design. The Internet started off as ARPANET, a secure US military data communications network using TCP/IP. As such, the system is designed to dynamically reroute traffic around holes and low bandwidth connections, so all you'd accomplish by cutting submarine cables is to lengthen the connection route between nodes in the countries the cables link. If there is a valid path between two nodes, they can talk. This means that any servers inside a completely isolated country will still be reachable from within it.

I have serious doubts about whether or not even a nuclear war could knock the Internet offline.
Last edited by Velkanika on Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The necessity of a navy, in the restricted sense of the word, springs, therefore, from the existence of a peaceful shipping, and disappears with it, except in the case of a nation which has aggressive tendencies, and keeps up a navy merely as a branch of the military establishment. 1
1Alfred T. Mahan, The Influence of Sea Power Upon History, 1660-1783, 12th ed. (Boston: Little Brown and Company, 1890), 26.

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Lamoni
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Lamoni » Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:27 pm

A nuclear war would only knock down parts of the internet, it is so widespread now.
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Gallia-
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gallia- » Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:35 pm

please stop spreading myths and misinformation

arpanet was a glorified office noteboard and filing cabinet for universities and the US National Science Foundation

before that it was a toy radio in a van

there was zero consideration for "nuclear war" or whatever lol

packet switching is useful for military command/control, but equating that to "the internet is nuclear war survivable" is like saying "making toast is the same as driving a car because theyre both PID"

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Velkanika
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Founded: Sep 23, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Velkanika » Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:50 pm

Gallia- wrote:please stop spreading myths and misinformation

arpanet was a glorified office noteboard and filing cabinet for universities and the US National Science Foundation

before that it was a toy radio in a van

there was zero consideration for "nuclear war" or whatever lol

packet switching is useful for military command/control, but equating that to "the internet is nuclear war survivable" is like saying "making toast is the same as driving a car because theyre both PID"

The Internet was designed to survive having large portions of it destroyed or disabled in wartime. That is a point of fact.
The necessity of a navy, in the restricted sense of the word, springs, therefore, from the existence of a peaceful shipping, and disappears with it, except in the case of a nation which has aggressive tendencies, and keeps up a navy merely as a branch of the military establishment. 1
1Alfred T. Mahan, The Influence of Sea Power Upon History, 1660-1783, 12th ed. (Boston: Little Brown and Company, 1890), 26.

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Gallia-
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Postby Gallia- » Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:58 pm

no it isnt

it cant even survive the chronic "farmer ran over a trunk line with his tiller" war waged constantly by ISPs every day

fucking tremendous though you somehow managed to make the myth even bigger and stupider than before

the internet is just a connection of random networks and servers

an actual "wartime internet" (an oxymoron if there ever were) might exist but it's hardly invulnerable and probably the most vulnerable to attack since defense related servers tend to be located in office buildings in big, important cities, since the US military has several of its own internets specifically for communicating top secret data

siprnet is one example

it's not at all able to survive a nuclear war, nor is there any reason it should

the enduring retarded myth of internet nukewar is probably a combination of the secure telephone line/microwave trunk networks that were designed to survive some form of limited nuclear war and existed at least in the USA and UK, AT&T/Bell System had underground bunkers of switches for voice communication, but these arent the internet, their efficacy in actuality is highly questionable, and theyre not even used anymore, and the forgetfulness of youth about the past

there is a huge world of difference between the packet switching of some shit line-of-sight microwave dishes that might be able to talk voice, and the internet which operates on a backbone of highly vulnerable fiber trunks

just like there's a world of difference between this burnt toast sandwich im eating and driving a car without killing twenty school children on purpose by accident

just because theyre both packet switching/pid doesnt confer these seemingly magical properties youre ascribing to them, it's only highlighting your utter ignorance of the subject and abject revelry thereof
Last edited by Gallia- on Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:15 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Triplebaconation
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Triplebaconation » Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:20 am

ARPAnet was only vaguely influenced by Baran's concept of a survivable distributed communications network. The actual purpose was to facilitate resource sharing between a wide variety of computer systems, and robustness was pretty much an unavoidable side effect.

It did lead to things like the Defense Switched Network that were designed with nuclear war in mind.

TCP/IP was created for military communications later, but military internets should be distinguished from "the Internet," which is fault-tolerant but highly vulnerable to directed attack.
Last edited by Triplebaconation on Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Triplebaconation
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Triplebaconation » Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:30 am

The wordburgers of the history men will tell the tale of Mad MX.
Proverbs 23:9.

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Gallia-
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Founded: Oct 09, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gallia- » Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:40 am

spoilers goddamn

tho im still scared to watch it im afraid it's chronicles of roaddick or something

otoh it got good reviews so maybe
Last edited by Gallia- on Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Triplebaconation
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Triplebaconation » Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:58 am

Road Warrior was better.

Not sure about secretprojects. Most of the best stuff on the Internet is already lost forever.
Proverbs 23:9.

Things are a bit larger than you appear to think, my friend.


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Palmyrion
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Founded: Mar 04, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Palmyrion » Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:49 am

Here's my nation's revamp of its history of how it got its small arms today. (well I'm gonna start with the 1976 Palmyrian Civil War of mine)*
The centrist rebellion of 1976 that overthrew the communist government back then was armed with Soviet equipment, which wasn't hard to come by as the communist government was armed with Soviet equipment. These rebel-owned equipment were produced in Holy Marsh and Romandeos, which gave the rebels safe haven (the communists were engaging on a genocide of those with religions, Marshism included, and so the neighboring Romani-Mar'si Union countries, Holy Marsh and Romandeos, gave the rebels safe haven), while the loyalist-owned Soviet equipment had these partly produced locally and partly imported from the now-dissolved Soviet Union. The standard issue rifle of both sides was the AK-74, with the loyalist government still using AK-47's.

With that in mind, the rebels would salvage any spare ammunition (and pretty much any intact equipment, including but not limited to firearms, ground vehicles, aircraft, etc.) used by the loyalist government. The weapons and cartridges that the rebels had by the end of the war soon became the first standard weaponry of the newly-founded Armed Forces of Palmyrion. The AK-74, the RPK-74, and the PKM would soon become the Armed Forces of Palmyrion's main small arms, with the 5.45x39mm, 7.62x54mmR, and the 12.7x108mm cartridges being the standard small arms cartridges.


How realistic would this be? That said, can I develop "custom" versions of modern day Russian cartridge loads? Can I use cased telescoped versions of modern day Russian cartridges?
*also would mean a total retcon of my nation's weaponry
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Holy Marsh
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Holy Marsh » Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:54 am

You sent me this via TG so I responded there, but just wanted to reiterate we never used the AK. We used theMIK Duran.
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New Chilokver
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby New Chilokver » Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:58 am

so uh
what does this thread cover again

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