NS Military Realism Consultancy Thread Mk X Purps Safe Space

[Kassaran]

Guis! I just got control of a nation in Northeastern Africa fresh off 1800 under the assumption that somehow a group of European intelligentsia realized they would have a better life modernizing the infrastructure of primitive countries in that area and convinced the leader of Somalia that it was the best bet for him to become the leader of them all. Nevermind that none of the countries of my region ever actually did what they needed to when they claimed countries everywhere else, there are as of now no African colonies sooo...

I've united Kenya, Somalia, Ethiopia, and the smaller nations of Djibouti and Eritrea.

I'm going full Thalassocracy here, so where do I go next that historically has the best resource base for me? I mostly want to build up quickly to be an industrial superpower in the region, but I recognize that I'm going to have a hard go at clearing areas of indigenous cultures. Thank god for 1800's mindset where its all expendable so long as my side wins.

Pax Britannia Region as of 1806 A.D. (AKA Limitless Potential for Someone who Knows What They're Doing).

[Arkandros]

What about things like cargo ships?

At what range can a modern submarine detect something like a Suezmax freighter and fire an anti-ship missile at it?

Best case scenario, probably out to (and past) 130 km. Due to varying rates of sound attenuation (dependent on water chemistry), ambient noise (harbors, marine life, etc), submarine and boat speeds (i.e., noise production), and whether or not you're below the thermocline, this could be as close as a few kilometers. There's several occasions where subs have accidentally surfaced under another (granted, small) boat because the surface boat's engines were off and was producing very little noise.

[Taihei Tengoku]

Guis! I just got control of a nation in Northeastern Africa fresh off 1800 under the assumption that somehow a group of European intelligentsia realized they would have a better life modernizing the infrastructure of primitive countries in that area and convinced the leader of Somalia that it was the best bet for him to become the leader of them all. Nevermind that none of the countries of my region ever actually did what they needed to when they claimed countries everywhere else, there are as of now no African colonies sooo...

I've united Kenya, Somalia, Ethiopia, and the smaller nations of Djibouti and Eritrea.

I'm going full Thalassocracy here, so where do I go next that historically has the best resource base for me? I mostly want to build up quickly to be an industrial superpower in the region, but I recognize that I'm going to have a hard go at clearing areas of indigenous cultures. Thank god for 1800's mindset where its all expendable so long as my side wins.

Pax Britannia Region as of 1806 A.D. (AKA Limitless Potential for Someone who Knows What They're Doing).

Put your entire population on a boat and invade Manchuria

[Arkandros]

Guis! I just got control of a nation in Northeastern Africa fresh off 1800 under the assumption that somehow a group of European intelligentsia realized they would have a better life modernizing the infrastructure of primitive countries in that area and convinced the leader of Somalia that it was the best bet for him to become the leader of them all. Nevermind that none of the countries of my region ever actually did what they needed to when they claimed countries everywhere else, there are as of now no African colonies sooo...

I've united Kenya, Somalia, Ethiopia, and the smaller nations of Djibouti and Eritrea.

I'm going full Thalassocracy here, so where do I go next that historically has the best resource base for me? I mostly want to build up quickly to be an industrial superpower in the region, but I recognize that I'm going to have a hard go at clearing areas of indigenous cultures. Thank god for 1800's mindset where its all expendable so long as my side wins.

Pax Britannia Region as of 1806 A.D. (AKA Limitless Potential for Someone who Knows What They're Doing).

Push north into Egypt, build a train along the coast from the Mediterranean to the gulf of Aden. Controlling a port on the Mediterranean gives you access to European trade without going around the Cape of Good Hope, plus you can charge exorbitant rates from the East India Company to transport goods (silk, ceramics, and tea) across your land bridge and cut thousands of miles of travel distance to China and the Far East. Plus, it sets you up for control of the Suez when it gets built a few decades down the line.
Alternatively, push towards the center of the continent south of the Sahara (into South Sudan, Congo, and the Central African Republic) to feed your population and start mining the Congo.
Historically, both of these would be considered British strategic assets and you would rapidly get fucked by the British navy and East India Company, so have fun with that.

[Dostanuot Loj]

OK, looking at my mechanized infantry companies. Essentially company sized units which are assigned to tank regiments as part of a regimental combat team. So this is regiment (aka batalion) sized combined arms. In this guise, the infantry are entirely there to support the tanks of the regiment in their task of victory through maneuver.

So, the company has a few roles:
1: Direct support of the tanks.
2: Local security of the tanks.
3: Assault/defense of minor local strongpoints.

So this leaves me with a regimental combat team built around a tank regiment of three tank squadrons, and attached various units including a mechanized infantry company. Let's review this company.

To start, structure. Because the company is intended to be task-assigned to the various tank squadrons normally to support the squadron in maneuver, it is structured around three infantry platoons. In practice, each platoon can be (or will be) tasked to a tank squadron. Because each tank squadron consists of four troops of four tanks, the individual infantry platoons can be divided up further if needed into four sections, each assigned to a tank troop. So this gives us a company of three platoons, each of four sections each equipped with an IFV. We will get to that later.

In addition to the infantry platoons, the company consists of a HQ and signals unit to provide another node of information processing to the regimental HQ. The company HQ is not intended for complete autonomy, indeed operations are intended to be tied into the regimental HQ quite heavily for proper integration. However it is responsible for local signals management, and often as part of the regimental combat team, managing the signals and shunting data to regimental combat support. Because of this the HQ includes organically a trained forward observation officer, and is provided direct interaction with cross-assigned and organic artillery assets.

Each company also includes a mortar section of three 81mm mortars. These are dismountable mortars primarily fitted to a variant of the IFV with a turntable to allow a wide range of fire. The individual mortars are assigned as per the regimental commander's operational orders for any operation. Thus they can be employed as a single group, or divided up between the tank squadrons like the infantry platoons. Additionally each company contains a recce section of four recce variant IFVs, equipped for battlefield surveillance. Finally the company is expected to provide low-level local air defense down to squadron level, and as such contains an organic air defense section of three vehicles with six MANPADS teams and a number of reloads.

The infantry platoons are primarily task-assignable units which rely on higher company level command for various functions. This limits their abilities outside their traditional role of tank escort, but is not seen as a hindrance due to the overall nature of the employment of Sumerian troops. The platoon is divided into four sections, each led by either an officer or NCO, with an NCO as assistant section leader. One section is led by the platoon commanding officer doing double duty, and one section is led by the platoon senior NCO also pulling double duty. Each section is generally a self-contained unit which can be assigned to support a tank troop. The IFV consists of the vehicle crew of three, the section leader who usually also commands the vehicle, a gunner, and the driver. The dismount element of seven people is led by the assistant section leader usually, but can be led by the section leader with assistant section leader taking command of the IFV depending on the situation. In addition to the assistant section leader the six dismounts operate in buddy-pairs for added support. One pair contains the section grenadier which is a Carl Gustav reconciles rifle team of a grenadier and assistant. The grenadier team is intended to provide mounted and dismounted fire support for the section and is considered the section's primary offensive weapon besides the IFV itself. The two remaining teams are identical, with one rifleman operating one of the two automatic rifles and doubling as section marksmen. The other member of the buddy pair carries a 6.5mm rifle with underslung 40mm grenade launcher. In practice this provides two dismounted maneuver teams of a rifle, grenade launcher, and automatic rifle with long range fire potential. However the section is designed to operate mounted and can operate their weapons from roof mounted hatches on their IFV. Operation of the Carl Gustav requires the rest of the section to remain buttoned up however. In buttoned up operation the IFV contains three specific firing port weapons which can be employed under armour.

If IFV itself is the primary offensive weapon of the section. With a crew of three and carrying seven dismounts plus munitions and stores for the section, the IFV provides both a single element from which the section can operate, and a supporting fire element to base dismounted maneuver on. The primary armament of the IFV are its 35mm automatic cannon, 6.5mm coaxial machine gun, and two ATGM box launchers for Spike-LR missiles. Sufficient ammunition for the cannon and machine gun are carried internally, as well as several reloads for the Spike missile and a dismountable command launcher unit so the section can employ the weapon external to the vehicle. Additionally three purpose built firing port weapons, based on the standard infantry rifle, are assigned to each vehicle. These are employed with standard rifle or automatic rifle magazines in each of the three firing ports: one on each side and one in the rear door.

-------------------------------

So the broader overview of this regimental combat team is such:
- Regimental HQ and signals
- Mechanized Infantry Company (As above)
- Tank Squadron
- Tank Squadron
- Tank Squadron
- SPG battery
- Recce troop
- Regimental FO troop
- SHORAD/SPAAG troop
- Tank Destroyer troop
- Assault Pioneer platoon
- Assault bridging troop

In theory this regiment would operate with three combined maneuver units built around a tank squadron, with an infantry platoon, FO vehicle, one 81mm mortar, one MANPADS vehicle, and one SPAAG/SHORAD attached. While Regimental HQ would control the SPG battery, tank destroyer troop, engineering assets, recce troop, FO liaison, and the remaining SPAAG/SHORAD vehicle to facilitate regimental maneuver.

This is all within the context of the maneuver brigade, which is comprised of the elements which allow it to create three such regimental combat teams, as well as additional fire support assets. The brigade is the maneuver element of the division, which is the primary fighting force supported by corps assets. It is in this way we see the Sumerian army intends to fight on open ground in the maneuver, with the concept of combined arms and superior protected mobility being broken down as far as the regimental level, sometimes down into the squadron itself. Or, in the words of NATO, the battalion and company. We also see the firepower allotments available at these levels, where a regimental commander has at his/her disposal. The regimental combat team includes, often, a battery of six self propelled 155mm gun-howitzers, as well as the infantry companies three organic 81mm mortars. A tank destroyer troop of four heavy-ATGM carrying armoured vehicles, organic MANPADS and SPAAG support, organic pioneer and bridging support, among other assignments considered excessive in foreign nations.

A final note on the bridging troop. As Sumerian terrain is primarily expanses of flat grassland criss-crossed by natural wadis and artificial irrigation channels of often significant size, bridging equipment is seen as an essential part of low-level maneuvering. A regimental combat team thus carries with it a troop of four tank-based AVLBs to provide immediate crossing when and where needed without delay. More bridging capability, in the form of some more AVLBs, and extensive truck-based portable bridging and pontoon bridging options exist at brigade and division level as well. This constitutes a significant difference between Sumerian units and their foreign counterparts wherein the unit may maneuver around or over such natural obstacles at will.

[Kassaran]

I was going to do that, but the map hasn't been updated yet to include the regions Asian faction, and yes, there is one... he's held in reserve the greater area of Asia, but never actually put out anything new I believe to give some definition to it.

I'm trying to go along the list of:

Step 1: Mine some gold.
Step 2: Use gold to buy newer better army.
Step 3: Invade nearby lands with better army.
Step 4: Mine some more gold.
Step 5: Develop heartland with gold to support bigger army.
Step 6: Develop bigger army.
Step 7: Invade nearby lands with bigger, better army.
Step 8: Rinse, Wash, Repeat...
Step 9: ???
Step 10: Become global superpower by 1900's.

I have 100 years. Go.

Push north into Egypt, build a train along the coast from the Mediterranean to the gulf of Aden. Controlling a port on the Mediterranean gives you access to European trade without going around the Cape of Good Hope, plus you can charge exorbitant rates from the East India Company to transport goods (silk, ceramics, and tea) across your land bridge and cut thousands of miles of travel distance to China and the Far East. Plus, it sets you up for control of the Suez when it gets built a few decades down the line.
Alternatively, push towards the center of the continent south of the Sahara (into South Sudan, Congo, and the Central African Republic) to feed your population and start mining the Congo.
Historically, both of these would be considered British strategic assets and you would rapidly get fucked by the British navy and East India Company, so have fun with that.

Good, glad to see I'm on the right idea for the war path. Sudan and South Sudan were my next goals for conquest, followed closely by Egypt, greater Libya, and greater Chad to obtain control of soon-to-be Suez Canal area and oil fields in NA (North Africa).

I'm essentially going to steal Manifest Destiny, and fortunately for me, as mentioned before there aren't any colonial holdings in Africa this time around, so everything seems Kosher for free-hold invasion. I'm just trying to figure out how fast I can expand from one end of the continent to the other with little European resistance. Once I hold the greater part of Easter, Central, Eastern, and Northern Africa in a pseudo-Imperial state, I'll be looking to evict certain persons from the south before monopolizing on war with the rest of the world for economic power. Probably just turn into the Greater African Federation with an emphasis on South Africa being either a close trading partner or a fierce military opponent while I take part in global-scale trade and military action. I'm trying to set myself up to compete with the other 'big-two' in the region which are British Russia and the United States. since I'm still at a point early enough to get my foot in the door, it's likely not too late for me to push in on their party and hold my own on the global scale.

[Gallia-]

Put your entire population on a boat and invade Manchuria

The Black Sons of Heaven.

I'm going full Thalassocracy here,

So you intend to recreate the Great Flood?

You aren't going Thalasso-anything because Africa isn't an island. Only a handful of civilizations have enjoyed the blessing of geopolitics to not share a land border with their most dangerous enemies: Phoenicia, Minoa, Britain, Japan, and USA are among them. At various stages in their existences, other civilizations have toyed with the concept but not to the extent of those. To be a thalassocracy you need to be unburdened with the need for a land army. Africa is, almost by design, not capable of this. It is more multicultural than the rest of Afroeurasia, put together, all of its wealth resides inland, and it has no major maritime borders with its potential foes (except Southern Europe), which means it is quite possibly the most extreme example of a tellurocracy in the universe.

It can be somewhat compared to 19th century America, which shared major land borders with a variety of hostile cultures, proceeded to destroy these cultures over a period of decades, and took their land. When it had achieved the part of unifying the American continent, colonizing it with various European cultures, and building a common identity around immigration for these cultures, then it was able to harness the economic resources of the Americas and become a world empire.

So basically unless you're going to march all the way down to Cape Town and unite Africa completely (which means genociding the untermenschen and replacing them with Algerians or something), and possibly build a wall (either physically or with ~friendship~) on the border of the Middle East, you aren't going to be a thalassocracy. You might be a Russia. Which really didn't have the ability to project power over other continents except through the Baltic Sea and over its land borders. But replace Baltic Sea with Mediterranean and you have a African Empire.

I have 100 years. Go.

Africa couldn't be united in 1,000 years, much less 100, and especially not by Africans themselves.

Depending on your flavor of determinism, the problem lies either in the natives' lack of innate talents, in the land's lack of easily exploitable resources, the latitude bands the continent occupies, lack of significant economic-political pressures to innovate, or all of these things combining to meaning that Africa's massive natural resources had to be tapped by Europeans rather than Africans themselves; because the Africans never bothered to develop an industrial revolution.

Any sort of "unified African Empire" needs to start in pre-Christian times. Akasha has it right.

[Allanea]

It's worse than that.

Beyond the obvious shortcomings African societies have (which they're gradually solving, mind, there's a reason the continent is improving so surprisingly swiftly), there's the fact that the various cultures and ethnicity of Africa are highly distinct in language, ethnicity, religion, etc.

[Allanea]

Moreover citizens, I'd like to tell you all that I've finally published my first novel.

[Gallia-]

It's worse than that.

Beyond the obvious shortcomings African societies have (which they're gradually solving, mind, there's a reason the continent is improving so surprisingly swiftly), there's the fact that the various cultures and ethnicity of Africa are highly distinct in language, ethnicity, religion, etc.

It can be somewhat compared to 19th century America, which shared major land borders with a variety of hostile cultures, proceeded to destroy these cultures over a period of decades, and took their land.

You would just ethnically cleanse them as you Lebensraum your way to Cape Town. Probably over a period of a few centuries or millennia so that by the time you industrialize it is as if they never existed.

[Spirit of Hope]

Moreover citizens, I'd like to tell you all that I've finally published my first novel.

Will give good review for free sample.

It's worse than that.

Beyond the obvious shortcomings African societies have (which they're gradually solving, mind, there's a reason the continent is improving so surprisingly swiftly), there's the fact that the various cultures and ethnicity of Africa are highly distinct in language, ethnicity, religion, etc.

It can be somewhat compared to 19th century America, which shared major land borders with a variety of hostile cultures, proceeded to destroy these cultures over a period of decades, and took their land.

You would just ethnically cleanse them as you Lebensraum your way to Cape Town. Probably over a period of a few centuries or millennia so that by the time you industrialize it is as if they never existed.

Such an expansion would be rather unlikely. The US only got away with it because of how devastated the Native American populations had been by disease, without something similar it would be rather hard to expand and destroy all of the cultures there.

[Kassaran]

Put your entire population on a boat and invade Manchuria

The Black Sons of Heaven.

I'm going full Thalassocracy here,

So you intend to recreate the Great Flood?

My bad, used the wrong word here.

I meant tellurocracy.

It's worse than that.

Beyond the obvious shortcomings African societies have (which they're gradually solving, mind, there's a reason the continent is improving so surprisingly swiftly), there's the fact that the various cultures and ethnicity of Africa are highly distinct in language, ethnicity, religion, etc.

It can be somewhat compared to 19th century America, which shared major land borders with a variety of hostile cultures, proceeded to destroy these cultures over a period of decades, and took their land.

You would just ethnically cleanse them as you Lebensraum your way to Cape Town. Probably over a period of a few centuries or millennia so that by the time you industrialize it is as if they never existed.

My goal is actually something quite similar. I'm trying to take the whole of North Africa and use it as an industrial base from which the rest of the empire would be built upon. Nobody's even touching it, but the main goal is to push hard for the entirety of the continent to be under dominant Somalian control by the end of the 20th Century. Right now i need to begin setting up for that, so what are the conditions a Tellurocracy would need to have to ensure rapid expansion into other lands deemed 'worthy' of being settled?

Such an expansion would be rather unlikely. The US only got away with it because of how devastated the Native American populations had been by disease, without something similar it would be rather hard to expand and destroy all of the cultures there.

Do note that slave trade has decimated Africa spite of an absence of colonies, so the exploitation of other populations means I have something of an advantage in the middle of Africa, but the western regions of the continent are going to be well-funded and well-armed as will likely be Northern regions which are in trade with Europe. I'm trying to beat everyone to the punch though in getting a foot in the door on every bit of the world economy to shut-down European exploitation of Africa resources beyond her people before anyone notices what's happening.

[Spirit of Hope]

The Black Sons of Heaven.



So you intend to recreate the Great Flood?

My bad, used the wrong word here.

I meant tellurocracy.

You would just ethnically cleanse them as you Lebensraum your way to Cape Town. Probably over a period of a few centuries or millennia so that by the time you industrialize it is as if they never existed.

My goal is actually something quite similar. I'm trying to take the whole of North Africa and use it as an industrial base from which the rest of the empire would be built upon. Nobody's even touching it, but the main goal is to push hard for the entirety of the continent to be under dominant Somalian control by the end of the 20th Century. Right now i need to begin setting up for that, so what are the conditions a Tellurocracy would need to have to ensure rapid expansion into other lands deemed 'worthy' of being settled?

Such an expansion would be rather unlikely. The US only got away with it because of how devastated the Native American populations had been by disease, without something similar it would be rather hard to expand and destroy all of the cultures there.

Do note that slave trade has decimated Africa spite of an absence of colonies, so the exploitation of other populations means I have something of an advantage in the middle of Africa, but the western regions of the continent are going to be well-funded and well-armed as will likely be Northern regions which are in trade with Europe. I'm trying to beat everyone to the punch though in getting a foot in the door on every bit of the world economy to shut-down European exploitation of Africa resources beyond her people before anyone notices what's happening.

The slave trade did no where near the same amount of damage that the spread of disease through the americas did. Honestly in some ways the slave trade works against you because it actually makes the other nations better armed as they trade slaves for European weapons, and the tribes became rather militant as they raided one another for slaves. One of the early issues of the slave trade was that most of the slaves were former warriors who had been captured in battle and then traded into slavery.

Meanwhile in the Americas disease, and it's side effects, caused the population to drop by close to 90% by the time early colonists started to arrive. Many of the early colonies basically landed right on top of old or abandoned Native American settlements.

[Tekeristan]

^You are correct. Disease was a huge factor towards pretty much the absolute dissolution of the native population in America's.

They wanted to use native Americans as slave labor, but they often started dying as soon as contact was made, or even before contact was made. Africans didn't. Indentured servants didn't last forever, culminated Bacon's rebellion, and you had to give them stuff once you let them go. See where this was going?

But to make things simple, you aren't going to be able to culture scrub Africa, or whatever it is you're planning on doing. If the devastated natives could assemble for the King Philips war, the natives of Africa will be able to do the same, only with a lot more people, and all the arms your enemies will to give them to bleed you.

Probably easier to just join together as a Confederacy with great lengths of autonomy.

[Gallia-]

My bad, used the wrong word here.

I meant tellurocracy.

My goal is actually something quite similar. I'm trying to take the whole of North Africa and use it as an industrial base from which the rest of the empire would be built upon. Nobody's even touching it, but the main goal is to push hard for the entirety of the continent to be under dominant Somalian control by the end of the 20th Century. Right now i need to begin setting up for that, so what are the conditions a Tellurocracy would need to have to ensure rapid expansion into other lands deemed 'worthy' of being settled?

Do note that slave trade has decimated Africa spite of an absence of colonies, so the exploitation of other populations means I have something of an advantage in the middle of Africa, but the western regions of the continent are going to be well-funded and well-armed as will likely be Northern regions which are in trade with Europe. I'm trying to beat everyone to the punch though in getting a foot in the door on every bit of the world economy to shut-down European exploitation of Africa resources beyond her people before anyone notices what's happening.

The slave trade did no where near the same amount of damage that the spread of disease through the americas did. Honestly in some ways the slave trade works against you because it actually makes the other nations better armed as they trade slaves for European weapons, and the tribes became rather militant as they raided one another for slaves. One of the early issues of the slave trade was that most of the slaves were former warriors who had been captured in battle and then traded into slavery.

Meanwhile in the Americas disease, and it's side effects, caused the population to drop by close to 90% by the time early colonists started to arrive. Many of the early colonies basically landed right on top of old or abandoned Native American settlements.

If you aren't united by the time you're "contacting Europeans" you are colonized. Simple.

Africa would need to have united under an empire before European arrival. During Roman times or perhaps before.

[Taihei Tengoku]

OK, looking at my mechanized infantry companies. Essentially company sized units which are assigned to tank regiments as part of a regimental combat team. So this is regiment (aka batalion) sized combined arms. In this guise, the infantry are entirely there to support the tanks of the regiment in their task of victory through maneuver.

So, the company has a few roles:
1: Direct support of the tanks.
2: Local security of the tanks.
3: Assault/defense of minor local strongpoints.

So this leaves me with a regimental combat team built around a tank regiment of three tank squadrons, and attached various units including a mechanized infantry company. Let's review this company.

To start, structure. Because the company is intended to be task-assigned to the various tank squadrons normally to support the squadron in maneuver, it is structured around three infantry platoons. In practice, each platoon can be (or will be) tasked to a tank squadron. Because each tank squadron consists of four troops of four tanks, the individual infantry platoons can be divided up further if needed into four sections, each assigned to a tank troop. So this gives us a company of three platoons, each of four sections each equipped with an IFV. We will get to that later.

-snip-

If IFV itself is the primary offensive weapon of the section. With a crew of three and carrying seven dismounts plus munitions and stores for the section, the IFV provides both a single element from which the section can operate, and a supporting fire element to base dismounted maneuver on. The primary armament of the IFV are its 35mm automatic cannon, 6.5mm coaxial machine gun, and two ATGM box launchers for Spike-LR missiles. Sufficient ammunition for the cannon and machine gun are carried internally, as well as several reloads for the Spike missile and a dismountable command launcher unit so the section can employ the weapon external to the vehicle. Additionally three purpose built firing port weapons, based on the standard infantry rifle, are assigned to each vehicle. These are employed with standard rifle or automatic rifle magazines in each of the three firing ports: one on each side and one in the rear door.

The problem I see here is that seven dudes will have to do close escort on not only their carrier but on average three to four tanks if I'm reading this correctly. Is this anywhere near enough infantry density?

[The Akasha Colony]

My goal is actually something quite similar. I'm trying to take the whole of North Africa and use it as an industrial base from which the rest of the empire would be built upon. Nobody's even touching it, but the main goal is to push hard for the entirety of the continent to be under dominant Somalian control by the end of the 20th Century. Right now i need to begin setting up for that, so what are the conditions a Tellurocracy would need to have to ensure rapid expansion into other lands deemed 'worthy' of being settled?

The problem is that the valuable parts of Africa change as the time period changes. For the industrial revolution, central Africa with the enormous hydropower reserves of the Congo River, greater fertility, and better resource availability makes it more attractive than North Africa, which by the modern era is relatively sparsely populated and resource-poor except in oil. It was a bit more fertile in the ancient era and this feature was exploited by the ancient civilizations that sprouted along its coast (Carthage had a large swath of rich agricultural land to sustain itself and was a food exporter), but millennia of neglect after major conflicts devastated the area allowed desertification to wipe a lot of this out.

Having led a few unlikely empires to dominance in a few P2TM threads back in the day though, it is less a matter of worrying about the historical details and more a matter of just continuing to push for what you want, and ideally finding a few other players to cooperate with to support your claims. It's more a matter of your OOC negotiating and persuasion skills than anything else. Get there first, get others to recognize your claims first, and it will hardly matter outside of these threads what you get there with. And have a buddy or two so it doesn't look like you alone are pushing all of these claims, switch off and share the persuasion load.

[Dostanuot Loj]

Do note that slave trade has decimated Africa spite of an absence of colonies

Uh, the numbers don't agree with you there.
In the 350 years the African transatlantic slave trade existed, an estimated 12 million made it to the Americas. If we assume a 50% mortality rate (Which is absurdly high, British ships reported 15-20% in their worst years) that still gives us maybe 25 million, over 350 years. The impact on the Atlantic slave trade on Africa was, overall, primarily cultural. Specific demographic impacts were specific to ethnic groups which were heavily enslaved, like the Igbo.

Gayla is right, if you don't have a unified state (Or empire really) long before European contact, the Europeans will take over. But major states like that existed in Africa long before that time, and long after, and they all failed in some major way. The reality is to not get colonized, you need to beat the Europeans at their own game.

The problem I see here is that seven dudes will have to do close escort on not only their carrier but on average three to four tanks if I'm reading this correctly. Is this anywhere near enough infantry density?

It's enough, possibly better then average. Security at rest is usually an in-unit thing, so your tank troop is self-securing with maybe 1-2 guys providing sentry duty. The infantry will alleviate this by providing that duty and leaving extra hands for maintenance. This isn't proper defense, that is for other proper infantry units.

[Kassaran]

Alright, let me restate this another way:

This Region just began on a fresh start. It was decided we'd be starting at roughly 1800 A.D.

NA was claimed in a heartbeat, alongside most of Europe and Asia. Africa and South America are kind of all that's left.

I'm running the long-game. I have scientific advancement buff for being essentially on-top in NS stats, so I'll be able to pull some wankery here.

Long-story short, history as we know it really doesn't exist. Aliens on the moon are behind American independence, Russia is actually British, Australia isn't colonized and neither is any place else that ever was except strangely enough America which also has slaves because its a thing that it's going to be getting another civil war, but with more steam-punky tech. Indigenous populations still exist unaffected with North American Plains aboriginals getting ready to mount a massive resistance against American Manifest Destiny and I've just moved in to begin taking over the African continent in such a reality.

Where do I go in 1800 to get my first major industrial buff from Somalia/Ethiopia? No, Asia isn't a possible answer, I'm talking Tellurocracy here, do I go South or North? The West Coast is indeed being funded for the slave trade, but there's no colonial ties in Africa.

[Taihei Tengoku]

Put your entire population on a boat and establish a tellurocracy in Manchuria and Korea

e: failing that the Punjab

[Kassaran]

Put your entire population on a boat and establish a tellurocracy in Manchuria and Korea

e: failing that the Punjab

Still in Asia, and especially those parts are out of the question.

India is a no-go. Honestly I don't know why it's so hard to get the answer here: Where do I go from here to ensure I get the best bang for my buck. Would it be to spread along the southern coastline, or go inland, after I secure Egypt and Sudan?

[The Akasha Colony]

Alright, let me restate this another way:

This Region just began on a fresh start. It was decided we'd be starting at roughly 1800 A.D.

NA was claimed in a heartbeat, alongside most of Europe and Asia. Africa and South America are kind of all that's left.

I'm running the long-game. I have scientific advancement buff for being essentially on-top in NS stats, so I'll be able to pull some wankery here.

Long-story short, history as we know it really doesn't exist. Aliens on the moon are behind American independence, Russia is actually British, Australia isn't colonized and neither is any place else that ever was except strangely enough America which also has slaves because its a thing that it's going to be getting another civil war, but with more steam-punky tech. Indigenous populations still exist unaffected with North American Plains aboriginals getting ready to mount a massive resistance against American Manifest Destiny and I've just moved in to begin taking over the African continent in such a reality.

Where do I go in 1800 to get my first major industrial buff from Somalia/Ethiopia? No, Asia isn't a possible answer, I'm talking Tellurocracy here, do I go South or North? The West Coast is indeed being funded for the slave trade, but there's no colonial ties in Africa.

Why do you keep thinking there's some key to industry in North Africa? There's nothing there that makes it particularly well-suited to industrial development. And indeed there's a lot that makes it a poor candidate in this regard, given its low population density, lack of exploitable resources, lack of hydropower potential, poor fertility, etc. The Nile is the only thing in North Africa that's useful until oil starts to matter, and even then the Nile is inferior to the Congo both as a source of fertile growing area and hydropower potential. The only benefit to North Africa is that you can more easily sell stuff to the Europeans but that's not enough to overcome the disadvantages the region has.

The Congo river basin is the most valuable part of Africa, full stop. It is rich in resources, has high fertility, has enormous hydropower potential, and can be turned into an effective transportation network with a bit of effort to construct locks around the rapids. While not as rich in oil, it still has significant reserves.

A few minutes of basic research though and you can find all this yourself.

The only reason to bother heading along the coastline is to ensure others don't claim it and then start moving inland. Otherwise, Kenya, Tanzania, Mozambique, etc. are of no particular interest.

[Taihei Tengoku]

There is nothing to industrialize in Africa. The bits that produce iron are thousands of miles away and only South Africa produces meaningful amounts of coal. Africa is also an empty continent until about 1950 (still somewhat underpopulated today). There are only ninety million people there in 1800, and a third or so live above the Sahara. However, the Punjab has both iron and coal (and also people), and Manchuria-Korea is the best potential industrial zone outside of Europe and North America.

AFRICA STRONG only works when service economies and GATT becomes a Thing, and also when Kenya's population explodes thirtyfold.

[Gallia-]

and Manchuria-Korea is the best potential industrial zone outside of Europe and North America.

^ This.

The steel foundries of the Song produce the finest iron hulled warships of the 18th century?

[Taihei Tengoku]

and Manchuria-Korea is the best potential industrial zone outside of Europe and North America.

^ This.

The steel foundries of the Song produce the finest iron hulled warships of the 18th century?

It was more like "Manchukuo produced way more steel than the Home Islands and thats why Japan capitulated to the USSR not the atom bomb"