NATION

PASSWORD

NS Military Realism Consultancy Thread Mk X Purps Safe Space

A place to put national factbooks, embassy exchanges, and other information regarding the nations of the world. [In character]

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Korva
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6468
Founded: Apr 22, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Korva » Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:30 am

Imperializt Russia wrote:
The Soodean Imperium wrote:This is the squad in a more legible scale. Everyone except the MG gunner gets an assault rifle, including the AT gunner (this is an old image). It is bigger than the IFV squad, which has 7 dismounts excluding the sergeant, but there are bigger sections out there.

I thought I was being really weird giving my grenadiers rifles, and even then only felt justified because said rifle was basically a big SMG in a holster.

In any case, if your legit riflemen only get three spare mags, your grenadier probably doesn't need three mags himself.

they have 6

User avatar
The Soodean Imperium
Senator
 
Posts: 4859
Founded: May 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Soodean Imperium » Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:40 am

Korva wrote:
Imperializt Russia wrote:I thought I was being really weird giving my grenadiers rifles, and even then only felt justified because said rifle was basically a big SMG in a holster.

In any case, if your legit riflemen only get three spare mags, your grenadier probably doesn't need three mags himself.

they have 6

i already said that i just used more words :(

Taihei Tengoku wrote:
The Soodean Imperium wrote:Are a "naval fire director" and "naval aviation forward air controller" supposed to follow units at the front line and provide line-of-sight target designation and fire correction?

Or do they just sit in the headquarters and relay other units' requests for fire support?


It wouldn't be a very forward air control if he sat way back in battalion HQ. FACs are out there actually directing flight paths and observing the gunfire.

In that case, IFV-based fire control platform it is.
Last harmonized by Hu Jintao on Sat Mar 4, 2006 2:33pm, harmonized 8 times in total.


"In short, when we hastily attribute to aesthetic and inherited faculties the artistic nature of Athenian civilization, we are almost proceeding as did men in the Middle Ages, when fire was explained by phlogiston and the effects of opium by its soporific powers." --Emile Durkheim, 1895
Come join Septentrion!
ICly, this nation is now known as the Socialist Republic of Menghe (대멩 사회주의 궁화국, 大孟社會主義共和國). You can still call me Soode in OOC.

User avatar
Imperializt Russia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 54847
Founded: Jun 03, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Imperializt Russia » Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:55 am

Maybe "step" the two magazines, so it's more readily discernible?

Why do you feel the grenadier needs as many rifle magazines as the riflemen?
Last edited by Imperializt Russia on Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Warning! This poster has:
PT puppet of the People's Republic of Samozaryadnyastan.

Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Also,
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.

User avatar
Militia of the Free
Attaché
 
Posts: 79
Founded: Aug 21, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Militia of the Free » Sat Aug 27, 2016 6:23 am

Rich and Corporations wrote:
Militia of the Free wrote:Also, IFVs? IMO sounds a bit heavy for recce units. In the Dutch army we used primarily jeeps for that. But you can experiment with it.

I prefer reconnaissance-in-force, requiring 40 tonne tanks armed with 90mm medium velocity guns, capable of destroying a wide variety of enemy materiel.

Nah mate, just use this one.

User avatar
Militia of the Free
Attaché
 
Posts: 79
Founded: Aug 21, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Militia of the Free » Sat Aug 27, 2016 6:25 am

The Soodean Imperium wrote:Are a "naval fire director" and "naval aviation forward air controller" supposed to follow units at the front line and provide line-of-sight target designation and fire correction?

Or do they just sit in the headquarters and relay other units' requests for fire support?


AFAIK in the Dutch armed forces forward air controllers get inserted by helicopter infiltration and operate by giving positions behind enemy lines. They are also used to mark landing grounds for aerial invasions. Some kind of behind-the-line reconnaissance.

User avatar
Immoren
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 65256
Founded: Mar 20, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Immoren » Sat Aug 27, 2016 6:49 am

"(Sub-)unit commader and fire controller ought to work so closely that outsider will mistake them for lovers."
IC Flag Is a Pope Principia
discoursedrome wrote:everyone knows that quote, "I know not what weapons World War Three will be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones," but in a way it's optimistic and inspiring because it suggests that even after destroying civilization and returning to the stone age we'll still be sufficiently globalized and bellicose to have another world war right then and there

User avatar
Militia of the Free
Attaché
 
Posts: 79
Founded: Aug 21, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Militia of the Free » Sat Aug 27, 2016 6:52 am

Immoren wrote:"(Sub-)unit commader and fire controller ought to work so closely that outsider will mistake them for lovers."

Sounds perfect for navymen.

User avatar
The Soodean Imperium
Senator
 
Posts: 4859
Founded: May 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Soodean Imperium » Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:52 am

Militia of the Free wrote:AFAIK in the Dutch armed forces forward air controllers get inserted by helicopter infiltration and operate by giving positions behind enemy lines. They are also used to mark landing grounds for aerial invasions. Some kind of behind-the-line reconnaissance.

This sounds like something that would go at the Divisional or Brigade level.

e: although I guess in my case sniper teams deployed by helicopter could do this given the right equipment.

In this battalion's case presumably the dedicated fire direction teams would be more concerned with "2 Company can't advance because there is a flaktower Mayan pyramid line of concealed fortifications at these coordinates, we need naval gunfire to soften it up before they move in." Which is why I'm leaning toward putting them in IFVs rather than jeeps so they don't get knocked out by a stray burst of MG fire or a nearby shell impact.

Imperializt Russia wrote:Maybe "step" the two magazines, so it's more readily discernible?

They are stepped, the top one is slightly higher up than the bottom one so the convex edge of the bottom one is visible. It's just hard to tell where one ends and the other begins because they're both masses of black/dark grey pixels. I may try to make it more visible next time I edit the image, which will also include giving the AT grenadier a proper rifle instead of that carbine, giving the machine-gunner a GPMG firing rimmed ammunition, and changing one rifleman to a marksman.

Imperializt Russia wrote:Why do you feel the grenadier needs as many rifle magazines as the riflemen?

Because nobody told me otherwise years ago when I posted this on IDT ;-;

I can cut it down to three magazines for the AT grenadier if that helps. I have a feeling that the sensible option is to make the :not:RPG-7 his main weapon and issue a pistol as a sidearm, but then how will he remove hamburger when he is out of thermobaric rockets?
Last edited by The Soodean Imperium on Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:32 am, edited 3 times in total.
Last harmonized by Hu Jintao on Sat Mar 4, 2006 2:33pm, harmonized 8 times in total.


"In short, when we hastily attribute to aesthetic and inherited faculties the artistic nature of Athenian civilization, we are almost proceeding as did men in the Middle Ages, when fire was explained by phlogiston and the effects of opium by its soporific powers." --Emile Durkheim, 1895
Come join Septentrion!
ICly, this nation is now known as the Socialist Republic of Menghe (대멩 사회주의 궁화국, 大孟社會主義共和國). You can still call me Soode in OOC.

User avatar
Korva
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6468
Founded: Apr 22, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Korva » Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:06 am

The Soodean Imperium wrote:
Imperializt Russia wrote:Why do you feel the grenadier needs as many rifle magazines as the riflemen?

Because nobody told me otherwise years ago when I posted this on IDT ;-;

I can cut it down to three magazines for the AT grenadier if that helps. I have a feeling that the sensible option is to make the :not:RPG-7 his main weapon and issue a pistol as a sidearm, but then how will he remove hamburger when he is out of thermobaric rockets?

He is fine with a carbine and the same amount of mags tbh.
Image

You will have the fightingest grenadiers in Hemithea!

User avatar
Imperializt Russia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 54847
Founded: Jun 03, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Imperializt Russia » Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:25 am

IIRC, most irl forces do issue the RPG gunner a handgun (the Soviets certainly did).
When I said "step", obviously they are staggered above each other, I meant step as an a step, ie above and to the side, so it is more readily apparent there are two magazines there.

In PSA rifle platoons, everyone but the grenadier has a 7mm rifle, while his backup weapon is a 5.45mm short-barrel carbine. I'm considering only issuing two (maybe three, one loaded) magazines and debating making them all tracer.
The machine gunner, armed either with an automatic rifle or a belt-fed weapon, is issued a handgun. Section marksmen carry the same carbine as the grenadier.
Warning! This poster has:
PT puppet of the People's Republic of Samozaryadnyastan.

Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Also,
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.

User avatar
Dragomerian Islands
Minister
 
Posts: 2745
Founded: Aug 26, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Dragomerian Islands » Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:34 am

I have been looking into something, but I was not able to find some things I needed. I have been looking into a space-based Anti-Ballistic Missile System. I have been looking at a satellite-based small-round kinetic gun as well as a satellite-based laser (like the US is developing for ground and air units). Which of these is more feasible (in the MT setting), assuming that I have the funds for it (either way would be expensive and I just want to see how feasible it is prior to implementing either one).
Proud Member of the following Alliances:
International Space Agency
IATA
:Member of the United National Group:
INTERNATIONAL JUSTICE SYSTEM FOUNDER
WAR LEVEL
[]Total War
[]War Declared
[]Conflict
[]Increased Readiness
[x]Peacetime
IMPORTANT NEWS:

None

User avatar
Allanea
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25620
Founded: Antiquity
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Allanea » Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:38 am

The former - space-based armed satellites with 23mm guns have been actually fielded in the 1970s. All you'd need is some way to aim the gun.
#HyperEarthBestEarth

Sometimes, there really is money on the sidewalk.

User avatar
Dragomerian Islands
Minister
 
Posts: 2745
Founded: Aug 26, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Dragomerian Islands » Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:40 am

Allanea wrote:The former - space-based armed satellites with 23mm guns have been actually fielded in the 1970s. All you'd need is some way to aim the gun.

I guess. Any ideas on how to aim?
Proud Member of the following Alliances:
International Space Agency
IATA
:Member of the United National Group:
INTERNATIONAL JUSTICE SYSTEM FOUNDER
WAR LEVEL
[]Total War
[]War Declared
[]Conflict
[]Increased Readiness
[x]Peacetime
IMPORTANT NEWS:

None

User avatar
The Soodean Imperium
Senator
 
Posts: 4859
Founded: May 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Soodean Imperium » Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:42 am

Imperializt Russia wrote:IIRC, most irl forces do issue the RPG gunner a handgun (the Soviets certainly did).
When I said "step", obviously they are staggered above each other, I meant step as an a step, ie above and to the side, so it is more readily apparent there are two magazines there.

TBH I have a feeling that would make it even harder to see. I'll just use a picture of one magazine with "x6" or "x8" next to it, which saves space and is easier to edit.

Imperializt Russia wrote:In PSA rifle platoons, everyone but the grenadier has a 7mm rifle, while his backup weapon is a 5.45mm short-barrel carbine. I'm considering only issuing two (maybe three, one loaded) magazines and debating making them all tracer.
The machine gunner, armed either with an automatic rifle or a belt-fed weapon, is issued a handgun. Section marksmen carry the same carbine as the grenadier.

IM(unqualified)O the advantage of issuing a rifle to every squad member who needs one is ammunition commonality; in the squad I posted, all small-arms weapons fire 7.62x39mm ammunition.

Switching the LMG for a GMPG and one rifle for a semi-automatic sniper rifle will add two weapons firing 7.62x54mmR, though, and both of those personnel would benefit from 9mm pistols as backup. Which leaves me divided on whether to give the AT grenadier a 9mm pistol in place of his rifle or carbine.
Last harmonized by Hu Jintao on Sat Mar 4, 2006 2:33pm, harmonized 8 times in total.


"In short, when we hastily attribute to aesthetic and inherited faculties the artistic nature of Athenian civilization, we are almost proceeding as did men in the Middle Ages, when fire was explained by phlogiston and the effects of opium by its soporific powers." --Emile Durkheim, 1895
Come join Septentrion!
ICly, this nation is now known as the Socialist Republic of Menghe (대멩 사회주의 궁화국, 大孟社會主義共和國). You can still call me Soode in OOC.

User avatar
Scandinavian Nations
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1083
Founded: Antiquity
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Scandinavian Nations » Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:01 am

The Soodean Imperium wrote:Which leaves me divided on whether to give the AT grenadier a 9mm pistol in place of his rifle or carbine.

There is no right answer. Sometimes one is better, other times the other. The only wrong answer is to keep it the same in every scenario.

User avatar
Allanea
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25620
Founded: Antiquity
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Allanea » Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:19 am

Dragomerian Islands wrote:
Allanea wrote:The former - space-based armed satellites with 23mm guns have been actually fielded in the 1970s. All you'd need is some way to aim the gun.

I guess. Any ideas on how to aim?


Well, forget on using the gun on anything that doesn't actually leave the atmosphere. (The shells would destroy themselves on re-entry, they're too small to survive meaningfully).

So now you need to...

1. Send information to the satellite from your ballistic defense sensors (other satellites, ground RADAR, whatever).
2. Have it reorient itself (turn, basically) in orbit and begin shooting at the incoming projectile. It is unlikely to hit (even a tiny deviation means missing by hundreds of meters in space) but maybe you could do so with good fire control software and firing like a hundred shells?

I am not very knowledgeable about the mathematics involved.
#HyperEarthBestEarth

Sometimes, there really is money on the sidewalk.

User avatar
Imperializt Russia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 54847
Founded: Jun 03, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Imperializt Russia » Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:20 am

This was what I meant.
Image
I think it's also clearer if the bottom magazine is in front.

Samozniy PSA platoons have 7x43 Samozniy, 5.45 Samozniy, 9x19/.357 SiG
Where specialist weapons are employed, this adds 7.62x54 for the PKP (either I'll adapt the PKP to .280 or upgun to a 9mm machine gun) and 9.3mm Brennecke for a specialist heavy rifle (and eventually for the MG).
Warning! This poster has:
PT puppet of the People's Republic of Samozaryadnyastan.

Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Also,
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.

User avatar
Gallia-
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25421
Founded: Oct 09, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gallia- » Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:44 am

Allanea wrote:
Gallia- wrote:If you go really far back, like the 1980s, the basic load was 150 rounds of ammunition rather than 210.

120 rounds of ball and 30 rounds of tracer.

When men were men and less was more.



To quote my father: "If your men are fighting with one rifle per three men, it's not that your soldiers are braved. It's that your country is too poor to supply them."


well i mean it's the western world so of course it's super poor

User avatar
Husseinarti
Senator
 
Posts: 4962
Founded: Mar 20, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Husseinarti » Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:16 pm

Imperializt Russia wrote:IIRC, most irl forces do issue the RPG gunner a handgun (the Soviets certainly did).
When I said "step", obviously they are staggered above each other, I meant step as an a step, ie above and to the side, so it is more readily apparent there are two magazines there.

In PSA rifle platoons, everyone but the grenadier has a 7mm rifle, while his backup weapon is a 5.45mm short-barrel carbine. I'm considering only issuing two (maybe three, one loaded) magazines and debating making them all tracer.
The machine gunner, armed either with an automatic rifle or a belt-fed weapon, is issued a handgun. Section marksmen carry the same carbine as the grenadier.


In TOEs a bunch of launcher-equipped infantrymen only had sidearms. However in most instances in real combat these were supplemented by available rifles instead.
Bash the fash, neopup the neo-cons, crotale the commies, and super entendard socialists

User avatar
Schwere Panzer Abteilung 502
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1476
Founded: Dec 28, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Schwere Panzer Abteilung 502 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:53 pm

militant radical centrist in the sheets, neoclassical realist in the streets.
Saving this here so I can peruse it at my leisure.
In IC the Federated Kingdom of Prussia, 1950s-2000s timeline. Prussia backs a third-world Balkans puppet state called Sal Kataria.



User avatar
Spirit of Hope
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12104
Founded: Feb 21, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Spirit of Hope » Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:59 pm

Dragomerian Islands wrote:I have been looking into something, but I was not able to find some things I needed. I have been looking into a space-based Anti-Ballistic Missile System. I have been looking at a satellite-based small-round kinetic gun as well as a satellite-based laser (like the US is developing for ground and air units). Which of these is more feasible (in the MT setting), assuming that I have the funds for it (either way would be expensive and I just want to see how feasible it is prior to implementing either one).

As others have noted the former has sort of already been done, the later still has many hurdles till it is feasible. IIRC the only gun to be used in space was mounted on Salyut 3. There isn't much information available on it that I know about. Honestly I don't think it would be all that useful, the speeds a bullet travel at aren't that high compared to orbital speeds, which would limit the effective range of such a system. Given you're also dealing with orbital ranges I think you would be able to effectively guard against ballistic missiles, without using a lot of satellites.

Reliable ground based lasers capable of taking out a missile are just beginning to be demonstrated. They have high power demands and create a good bit of waste heat. Things that are't good for a satellite system.
Fact Book.
Helpful hints on combat vehicle terminology.

Imperializt Russia wrote:Support biblical marriage! One SoH and as many wives and sex slaves as he can afford!


User avatar
Imperializt Russia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 54847
Founded: Jun 03, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Imperializt Russia » Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:50 pm

Husseinarti wrote:
Imperializt Russia wrote:IIRC, most irl forces do issue the RPG gunner a handgun (the Soviets certainly did).
When I said "step", obviously they are staggered above each other, I meant step as an a step, ie above and to the side, so it is more readily apparent there are two magazines there.

In PSA rifle platoons, everyone but the grenadier has a 7mm rifle, while his backup weapon is a 5.45mm short-barrel carbine. I'm considering only issuing two (maybe three, one loaded) magazines and debating making them all tracer.
The machine gunner, armed either with an automatic rifle or a belt-fed weapon, is issued a handgun. Section marksmen carry the same carbine as the grenadier.


In TOEs a bunch of launcher-equipped infantrymen only had sidearms. However in most instances in real combat these were supplemented by available rifles instead.

There's that article from Afghanistan where anyone issued an AKS-74u would do everything they could to get their hands on an AKS-74 instead, for whatever reason (except the article author, who preferred a Stetchkin pistol - he was a driver).
Warning! This poster has:
PT puppet of the People's Republic of Samozaryadnyastan.

Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Also,
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to Factbooks and National Information

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Reinkalistan

Advertisement

Remove ads