NS Military Realism Consultancy Thread Mk X Purps Safe Space

[Gallia-]

us army sbct infantry companies (everything old is new again so the US Army have reverted to WW2 sniper employment) have sniper sections (three snipers with 12.7mm/25mm (RIP OSW) and 7.62mm sniper rifles, and one sniper provides security with an M4/M203 but they can all serve the function of marksman

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... age631.jpg

imo putting them in the company is the best because you have a very powerful recce without needing to ask the battalion hq for scouts and you have organic counter-sniper ability

a sniper in every platoon, with something like an SVD or SDM-R, can supplement this further

I was thinking snipers something like how APILAS was emplyed in Finnish M/91 battalions. Granted anti-tank troops and snipers are slightly different.
Like companies would have their own organic snipers, while battalion commander would have his own sniper unit to reinforce companies marksman assets or something, if needed.

yes but idt it needs to be platoon

a sniper squad and a recce platoon is probably enough which is what sbcts have

you could add uavs if you were baller enough tho

[Militia of the Free]

I was thinking snipers something like how APILAS was emplyed in Finnish M/91 battalions. Granted anti-tank troops and snipers are slightly different.
Like companies would have their own organic snipers, while battalion commander would have his own sniper unit to reinforce companies marksman assets or something, if needed.

yes but idt it needs to be platoon

a sniper squad and a recce platoon is probably enough which is what sbcts have

you could add uavs if you were baller enough tho

UAVs give NoSoviets! PTSD, Uncle Vlad needs to rely on his die hard WEE DEE VEE recce GRU SPETSNAZA units.

Because no telnyashka = ineffective soldier. Or you need to draw the UAVs in a telnyashka scheme.

[Rich and Corporations]

Also, IFVs? IMO sounds a bit heavy for recce units. In the Dutch army we used primarily jeeps for that. But you can experiment with it.

I prefer reconnaissance-in-force, requiring 40 tonne tanks armed with 90mm medium velocity guns, capable of destroying a wide variety of enemy materiel.

[Ardavia]

Also, IFVs? IMO sounds a bit heavy for recce units. In the Dutch army we used primarily jeeps for that. But you can experiment with it.

I prefer reconnaissance-in-force, requiring 40 tonne tanks armed with 90mm medium velocity guns, capable of destroying a wide variety of enemy materiel.

[Gallia-]

Also, IFVs? IMO sounds a bit heavy for recce units. In the Dutch army we used primarily jeeps for that. But you can experiment with it.

I prefer reconnaissance-in-force, requiring 40 tonne tanks armed with 90mm medium velocity guns, capable of destroying a wide variety of enemy materiel.

>40 tonnes
>90mm gun
>"tank"

laffed

[Imperializt Russia]

Also, IFVs? IMO sounds a bit heavy for recce units. In the Dutch army we used primarily jeeps for that. But you can experiment with it.

I prefer reconnaissance-in-force, requiring 40 tonne tanks armed with 90mm medium velocity guns, capable of destroying a wide variety of enemy materiel.

What is this, 1956?

You can fit a full-size tank gun on a 40-tonne platform, see every Russian tank before T-14.

[The Kievan People]

Sniper/MBT combined arms teams for the non-linear battlefields of tomorrow.

[Austrasien]

If your rec forces are tough enough to pass as line units.

They will probably be used as line units and some infantry unit will be sent to do the scouting things.

[Gallia-]

acr best anything

forever

[The Soodean Imperium]

Are a "naval fire director" and "naval aviation forward air controller" supposed to follow units at the front line and provide line-of-sight target designation and fire correction?

Or do they just sit in the headquarters and relay other units' requests for fire support?

If it's the former I'll make some kind of IFV fire director mod but if it's the latter I'll just stick them in amphi-jeeps and call it a day.

Maybe you are using other terms, but usually a marksman is a specialist on longer range fire (around 500 meter and up) for a section (around 8 men I guess). A sniper, on the other hand, is together with a spotter a seperate team, which is the whole unit. Snipers usually have different assignments, usually stealthier due to being a two man team, than a marksman. Shooting enemy priority targets in combat whilst fighting with other units is usually a marksman.

From Wikipedia

The main difference between military marksmen and snipers is that marksmen are usually considered an organic part of a fireteam of soldiers and are never expected to operate independently, whereas snipers usually work alone or in very small teams.

Yes, hence why my marksmen have semi-automatic rifles and are carried in the platoon's IFVs while my snipers carry bolt-action rifles, wear camo nets, and are grouped in their own platoon to be dispatched as needed.

The difference between snipers and marksmen is, ironically, one of the few useful things that I learned from IDT back when I used to post there. Everything else is a swirling blur of vodka and gun porn.

Also, IFVs? IMO sounds a bit heavy for recce units. In the Dutch army we used primarily jeeps for that. But you can experiment with it.

Not all recce units are created equal. The IFVs in the recon platoon follow the same concept as BRM-1K and M3 Bradley: compared to the standard DTD-5, they have a larger crew, additional radio and designation equipment, and a ground surveillance radar mounted on the turret rear, making them dedicated reconnaissance platforms. Recce units in other units or at other levels of command would get jeeps or wheeled APCs.

Ten rifles per squad? These sound like really big sections.

This is the squad in a more legible scale. Everyone except the MG gunner gets an assault rifle, including the AT gunner (this is an old image). It is bigger than the IFV squad, which has 7 dismounts excluding the sergeant, but there are bigger sections out there.

[Taihei Tengoku]

If your rec forces are tough enough to pass as line units.

They will probably be used as line units and some infantry unit will be sent to do the scouting things.

t. wrd spetzgru user

I made a company ORBAT that just rolled reconnaissance in force into the role of the infantry and did away with squads altogether. The platoon was made up of five sticks of six plus another six dudes in an HQ with a radio and a mortar

Are a "naval fire director" and "naval aviation forward air controller" supposed to follow units at the front line and provide line-of-sight target designation and fire correction?

Or do they just sit in the headquarters and relay other units' requests for fire support?

It wouldn't be a very forward air control if he sat way back in battalion HQ. FACs are out there actually directing flight paths and observing the gunfire.

[Imperializt Russia]

Ten rifles per squad? These sound like really big sections.

This is the squad in a more legible scale. Everyone except the MG gunner gets an assault rifle, including the AT gunner (this is an old image). It is bigger than the IFV squad, which has 7 dismounts excluding the sergeant, but there are bigger sections out there.

I thought I was being really weird giving my grenadiers rifles, and even then only felt justified because said rifle was basically a big SMG in a holster.

In any case, if your legit riflemen only get three spare mags, your grenadier probably doesn't need three mags himself.

[Rich and Corporations]

I prefer reconnaissance-in-force, requiring 40 tonne tanks armed with 90mm medium velocity guns, capable of destroying a wide variety of enemy materiel.

What is this, 1956?

You can fit a full-size tank gun on a 40-tonne platform, see every Russian tank before T-14.

I thought I iterated my current tank design strategy. Well, maybe I changed it since then:

Heavy tank (chassis used for armored bridges)
Weight: 70 tonnes
Armament: 12 cm gun L/55
can ford rivers with preparation

Medium tank (chassis used for tank destroyer (armed with 12 cm L/55), AA, howitzer artillery, IFV (4 cm L/80 gun))
Weight: 40 tonnes
Armament: 9 cm L/50
can float with foam attachments

Light tank (chassis used for AA, mortar artillery, APC, platoon-level equipment carrier, roughly based on Armored Infantry Fighting Vehicle design)
Weight: 14 tonnes
Armament: 2.1 cm
can float with foam attachments

While the Cold War military had substantially more tanks per unit than the WWII military, increasing protection costs require lighter vehicles to allow for transportation, to move the same firepower at previous speeds. The heavy tank can only be unloaded at ports after some preparation, while the medium tank is capable of being landed by hovercraft.

Furthermore, grainy images of vehicles hundreds of meters away will cause tank commanders looking through thermal imaging sights to think they are against a superior tank much of the time (hence the high number of reported Tiger kills in WWII using standard optics in daytime).

[Pharthan]

In any case, if your legit riflemen only get three spare mags, your grenadier probably doesn't need three mags himself.

iirc, Most modern infantry get like, a metric butt-ton of mags. Three seems incredibly small a number. A friend told me he was accustomed to carrying nearly 1000 rounds on his person if they expected combat. Seems a bit high imo, and obviously not all of those would be in mags, seeing as that would be 34 mags.

[Gallia-]

Basic load is 210 rounds of 5.56mm in the US Army, and probably the rest of NATO too.

[Pharthan]

Basic load is 210 rounds of 5.56mm in the US Army, and probably the rest of NATO too.

What scenarios exactly require one to be fitted with a "basic" load?

[Gallia-]

Basic load is 210 rounds of 5.56mm in the US Army, and probably the rest of NATO too.

What scenarios exactly require one to be fitted with a "basic" load?

fightan'

Less flippantly, a "unit/ammunition basic load" is the amount of Class V supplies a given unit can transport organically in one movement. The ammunition basic load (ABL) for a rifleman is 210 rounds of 5.56mm carried in seven magazines. One in the rifle, six on your vest. The ABL for a SAW gunner is 800-1,000 rounds of 5.56mm, depending on if you carry the 100-round belts or not. 200 in the SAW, two 200-round boxes on your person, and two 100-round boxes is probably typical.

Basic load of the M60 used to be 600-900 rounds of 7.62mm, with the gunner carrying 300 rounds and the assistant carrying the rest, and if there is a third man then he carries another 300 rounds for a total of 900. It's still the same with the M240, but the gunner might carry 300 rounds on his person and 100-round belt in the gun or something, for a total of 1000 rounds. ABL for the M203 according to Technical Manual 3-22.31 says the minimum combat load for the M203 grenade launcher is 36 rounds, as does the US Army's "Big Spreadsheet of Amounts of Bullets We Give To People", and some other stuff.

Some of them might have changed between now and like 1990 or whatever, though.

The US Army also had a weird "pistol fighter" kit that had 5 9mm magazines back in the day, which no longer exists because it was too hella baller.

It can be adjusted as necessary, of course, depending on the expected rate of resupply and duration of the mission, so in practice it tends to involve filling out a bunch of forms that vary based on the situation. The notional ammunition allowances are based on TO&E missions for the units, and mostly serve as reference points more than anything.

Of course for the terminally lazy in the Army, the basic ammunition load is sufficient to deal with a lot of things (anything from Crushing Communism to Slotting Floppies), so people end up carrying it in reality too. It is also the nominal amount of ammunition stored by a unit, assuming no operational or mission requirements are consuming Class V in large quantities. In this case, it isn't the Ammunition Basic Load, it's the Ammunition Initial Issue Quantity, which is a totally different thing.

[Puzikas]

Infantrymen who know they're expected to be in combat will always carry more ammo than standard

You can fit six Mags in your top pockets, think of the FIREPOWER

[Gallia-]

Infantrymen who know they're expected to be in combat will always carry more ammo than standard

You can fit six Mags in your top pockets, think of the FIREPOWER

Hour 16 of the Final War: A Co, 2nd Battalion, 69th Infantry Regiment begins issuing three magazines per man due to Class V shortages caused by excess supply consumption which greatly exceeded the expected rate.

LTC Never proceeds to admonish Captain Adcock for his shortsightedness.

[Gallia-]

If you go really far back, like the 1980s, the basic load was 150 rounds of ammunition rather than 210.

120 rounds of ball and 30 rounds of tracer.

When men were men and less was more.

[Lamoni]

I prefer reconnaissance-in-force, requiring 40 tonne tanks armed with 90mm medium velocity guns, capable of destroying a wide variety of enemy materiel.

I'm gonna go ahead and share that with Lyras now.

[Allanea]

If you go really far back, like the 1980s, the basic load was 150 rounds of ammunition rather than 210.

120 rounds of ball and 30 rounds of tracer.

When men were men and less was more.

To quote my father: "If your men are fighting with one rifle per three men, it's not that your soldiers are braved. It's that your country is too poor to supply them."

[Korva]

(Image)

lyrans are scum '~'

New Avalon best day of life.

[Rich and Corporations]

It takes thousands of rounds of ammunition to cause a casualty anyway.

[The Soodean Imperium]

This is the squad in a more legible scale. Everyone except the MG gunner gets an assault rifle, including the AT gunner (this is an old image). It is bigger than the IFV squad, which has 7 dismounts excluding the sergeant, but there are bigger sections out there.

I thought I was being really weird giving my grenadiers rifles, and even then only felt justified because said rifle was basically a big SMG in a holster.

In any case, if your legit riflemen only get three spare mags, your grenadier probably doesn't need three mags himself.

It's six spare mags, they're just stacked in pairs, partly to save space in the image and partly because that's how they'll be carried in pouches. That's not a rim on the back of the magazine, it's the bottom magazine peeking through. I guess it's not depicted very clearly though, given that it's black objects with black outlines in 1px:1cm scale.

This adds up to 180 rounds in pouches plus 30 in the rifle, for... 210 rounds. In heavy infantry units (7 men per section in an IFV) this would be up to eight magazines in pouches plus one in the rifle for 270 rounds. In either case more could be stored in the IFV or APC, along with extra disposable tube launchers, AT rockets, and grenades.

I may issue like 3 magazines per soldier in low-grade reserve units, but if I'm calling up those units it's reached the level of "pvt chen here is rifle if you can shoot rifle you can kill imperialist training is concluded now get on truck and die for homeland"