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Taihei Tengoku
Senator
 
Posts: 4142
Founded: Dec 15, 2015
New York Times Democracy

Postby Taihei Tengoku » Sat May 13, 2017 7:06 pm

Maverica wrote:Is there any sense to use a modern Universal/Windsor Carriers type thing for light infantry. They could carry light infantry quickly over almost anything and anywhere be air transportable and still have certain carriers with TOW rockets to kill tanks or 20mm guns to support infantry.

I seen the Weasle tankette but they don't carry troops like an universal carrier.

Wiesel 2 can carry a few troops like UC but in the modern day these kinds of things are done by jeeps and pickups

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Gallia-
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
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Founded: Oct 09, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby Gallia- » Sat May 13, 2017 7:07 pm

Image

dat h o i s t

moving the guns by B.O. Ewing
Last edited by Gallia- on Sat May 13, 2017 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Maverica
Minister
 
Posts: 2225
Founded: Jun 05, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Maverica » Sat May 13, 2017 7:12 pm

Taihei Tengoku wrote:
Maverica wrote:Is there any sense to use a modern Universal/Windsor Carriers type thing for light infantry. They could carry light infantry quickly over almost anything and anywhere be air transportable and still have certain carriers with TOW rockets to kill tanks or 20mm guns to support infantry.

I seen the Weasle tankette but they don't carry troops like an universal carrier.

Wiesel 2 can carry a few troops like UC but in the modern day these kinds of things are done by jeeps and pickups

Well tracked carriers can manuver on rough terrian much better than a jeep or pickup.
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Taihei Tengoku
Senator
 
Posts: 4142
Founded: Dec 15, 2015
New York Times Democracy

Postby Taihei Tengoku » Sat May 13, 2017 8:02 pm

Maverica wrote:
Taihei Tengoku wrote:Wiesel 2 can carry a few troops like UC but in the modern day these kinds of things are done by jeeps and pickups

Well tracked carriers can manuver on rough terrian much better than a jeep or pickup.

This is somewhat of a meme--while it certainly applies to thirty-ton wheeled death trucks like Boxer and Stryker jeeps and trucks can go anywhere (cf. Dakar Rally) and require peanuts to maintain compared to tracks. In truly rough terrain you'd hoof it anyways.

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Gallia-
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Founded: Oct 09, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby Gallia- » Sat May 13, 2017 8:03 pm

Taihei Tengoku wrote:
Maverica wrote:Well tracked carriers can manuver on rough terrian much better than a jeep or pickup.

This is somewhat of a meme--while it certainly applies to thirty-ton wheeled death trucks like Boxer and Stryker jeeps and trucks can go anywhere (cf. Dakar Rally) and require peanuts to maintain compared to tracks. In truly rough terrain you'd hoof it anyways.


<10 tons: Wheels
>10 tons <20 tons: Either
>20 tons: Tracks

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Gallia-
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Founded: Oct 09, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby Gallia- » Sat May 13, 2017 8:40 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WttpWwcSjy4

truly an Ultimate Weapon

i will need to lineart him for the Final Gunship

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Kassaran
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Posts: 9783
Founded: Jun 16, 2013
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Kassaran » Sat May 13, 2017 9:44 pm

Gallia- wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WttpWwcSjy4

truly an Ultimate Weapon

i will need to lineart him for the Final Gunship

Thoughts on the Cheyenne-san?
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Gallia-
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Founded: Oct 09, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby Gallia- » Sat May 13, 2017 9:44 pm

terrible

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Kassaran
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Founded: Jun 16, 2013
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Kassaran » Sat May 13, 2017 10:01 pm

Taking Cheyenne conversation from both threads to here in general, why was the Cheyenne horrible?
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The Teutonic Republic wrote:"Hammer" in Russian means "Dicks" in Finnish.

This can't be a coincidence
Korva wrote:Q: How effective would this thing be if we assume it would be very effective?
A: Very effective
The Knockout Gun Gals wrote:
The United Remnants of America wrote:You keep that cheap Chinese knock-off away from the real OG.
Same goes for Task Force Rainbow.

bloody hell, mate.
that's a real deal. We just don't buy the license rights.
Currently Enlisted in the United States Army.

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Prosorusiya
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Posts: 1587
Founded: Oct 01, 2015
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Prosorusiya » Sun May 14, 2017 8:34 am

Anyone have pictures of the MVD VV's arnoured train in Chechnya? I heard it was improvised, but apparently was still around and repaired (and regularized) as of 2013. I already know the composition, more or less, or the trains so I'm just looking for reference pictures...

Half tempted to line art it...
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Palmyrion
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Palmyrion » Sun May 14, 2017 10:08 am

What happens if you deliberately condition your recruits to find joy in killing?
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-Alemannia-
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Posts: 253
Founded: Nov 19, 2016
Left-Leaning College State

Postby -Alemannia- » Sun May 14, 2017 10:11 am

you get sociopaths that have difficulty adjusting to civilian life
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Crookfur
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Crookfur » Sun May 14, 2017 10:25 am

Palmyrion wrote:What happens if you deliberately condition your recruits to find joy in killing?

They keep killing...
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-Celibrae-
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Founded: Apr 26, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby -Celibrae- » Sun May 14, 2017 10:29 am

Palmyrion wrote:What happens if you deliberately condition your recruits to find joy in killing?


You make thousands of murderers.

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United Muscovite Nations
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Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Sun May 14, 2017 10:54 am

Palmyrion wrote:What happens if you deliberately condition your recruits to find joy in killing?

I have a feeling that this is one of those "really edgy things that sounds badass but really causes logistical nightmares, low unit cohesion, and insubordination*"

*troops ignoring orders against committing war crimes
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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Sun May 14, 2017 10:57 am

Palmyrion wrote:What happens if you deliberately condition your recruits to find joy in killing?

You would basically discard discipline in favour of animalistic urges and end up with an uncontrollable rabble of barbarism more interested in pillaging and raping (verbatim et litterim) the countryside than fighting the actual enemy.

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The Technocratic Syndicalists
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Founded: May 27, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Technocratic Syndicalists » Sun May 14, 2017 11:07 am

Palmyrion wrote:What happens if you deliberately condition your recruits to find joy in killing?


You'll find yourself in a nice comfy cell in The Hague.

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Hurtful Thoughts
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5072
Founded: Sep 09, 2005
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Hurtful Thoughts » Sun May 14, 2017 11:45 am

Taihei Tengoku wrote:
Maverica wrote:Is there any sense to use a modern Universal/Windsor Carriers type thing for light infantry. They could carry light infantry quickly over almost anything and anywhere be air transportable and still have certain carriers with TOW rockets to kill tanks or 20mm guns to support infantry.

I seen the Weasle tankette but they don't carry troops like an universal carrier.

Wiesel 2 can carry a few troops like UC but in the modern day these kinds of things are done by jeeps and pickups

Automotively simpler than wheeled armored vehicles above whatever mass makes 2wd impractical.

Better ability to "unstick" themselves with a "stalinium-log".

Even in a unit of mostly wheeled vehicles, is sometimes handy to have a few equiped with winches 'n shit. This, and for combat-engineering duties.

...

*Motions for half of all MT-LBs to get bulldozer blades, the other half is required to remain amphibious*
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Austrasien
Minister
 
Posts: 2544
Founded: Apr 07, 2013
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Austrasien » Sun May 14, 2017 12:45 pm

Palmyrion wrote:What happens if you deliberately condition your recruits to find joy in killing?


Probably impossible unless they already enjoy killing. Humans also have a much greater ability than say, dogs, to understand abstract relationships and cannot really be conditioned in the proper sense against their will. Without the [sci-fi] ability to reach into their brains and begin triggering reward centers on command or unless they are actually mentally retarded they will quickly grasp the pleasurable stimulus comes from the tasty chocolate bar you give them when they get a "good kill" and not from the actual act of killing.

They will probably even figure out they can just go out and buy themselves a tasty chocolate bar and skip the whole killing step.
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Federated Kingdom of Prussia
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 149
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Federated Kingdom of Prussia » Sun May 14, 2017 1:07 pm

Palmyrion wrote:What happens if you deliberately condition your recruits to find joy in killing?

Exactly how would you do that in the first place?

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Allanea
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Posts: 23107
Founded: Antiquity
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Allanea » Sun May 14, 2017 1:27 pm

It's not clear if human being are naturally repulsed by killing or not.

That's to say, killing a single human being is traumatic to most, but studies differ on what happens afterwards.

Some studies argue that killing is traumatic in general, and others - for example, research into the experience of WW1 combatants - suggest that killing actually reduces the trauma of war, and that soldiers that were exposed to enemy fire and not able to kill the people who fired themselves (for example, rear-echelon troops who were regularly exposed to enemy fire) were actually more severely traumatized than front-line soldiers.
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Tekeristan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5127
Founded: Mar 08, 2015
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Tekeristan » Sun May 14, 2017 1:29 pm

And here I am, an individual who goes out of their way to avoid stepping on insects.

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Purpelia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 30736
Founded: Oct 19, 2010
Libertarian Police State

Postby Purpelia » Sun May 14, 2017 1:32 pm

Allanea wrote:It's not clear if human being are naturally repulsed by killing or not.

That's to say, killing a single human being is traumatic to most, but studies differ on what happens afterwards.

Some studies argue that killing is traumatic in general, and others - for example, research into the experience of WW1 combatants - suggest that killing actually reduces the trauma of war, and that soldiers that were exposed to enemy fire and not able to kill the people who fired themselves (for example, rear-echelon troops who were regularly exposed to enemy fire) were actually more severely traumatized than front-line soldiers.

I would imagine that it has less to do with killing than with having the opportunity to kill. Like, say you are a front line soldier and you charge an enemy trench. You don't kill anyone but you see your friends and squad mates do so. That makes you feel as if you are in control. You are the one deciding if you live or die. Now compare that to just sitting in a rear trench being shelled with absolutely no opportunity to retaliate or even know death is coming.

Really, what seems to break people is the idea of constant unpredictable danger that they can do absolutely nothing to defend against, avoid or take revenge against. That's why terrorism works.

War is not fun.
Last edited by Purpelia on Sun May 14, 2017 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Allanea
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Founded: Antiquity
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Allanea » Sun May 14, 2017 1:51 pm

It's a big controversy among psychologists about whether what's more damaging in war psychologically - the fact you are forced to kill other people, or the fact that you are constantly in danger of being killed, or possibly the various other things.

My reading suggests to me that at the least, people can learn to enjoy killing, and the danger of being killed is more of a danger to you psychologically. (Although you can argue, I think fairly reasonably, that a person who enjoys killing is inherently psychologically damaged by that very fact.)
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Federated Kingdom of Prussia
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 149
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Federated Kingdom of Prussia » Sun May 14, 2017 2:08 pm

Does the way the killing is done matter? I'd imagine shooting someone 100 yards away might have a different effect than eviscerating their bowels with your bayonet.

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