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A place to put national factbooks, embassy exchanges, and other information regarding the nations of the world. [In character]
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The Kievan People
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NS Military Realism Consultancy Thread Mk X Purps Safe Space

Postby The Kievan People » Wed Aug 03, 2016 11:43 am

KEEP
CALM

AND
CARRY
ON



Resources:
Allanea’s Handy Guide To Military Incompetence and Military Errors
Allanea’s Friendly Guide to Modern Infantry
Allanea’s Handy Guide to Urban Combat for Nationstates Players
Guerrilla Warfare - a Primer for Nationstates Players
Allanea’s Brief Guide to Military Sustainment/Logistics
Andrei Tarasenko's Blog and website on Soviet, Russian and Ukrainian Armour.
Alexey Khlopotov's Russian armour blog.
Courage - Russian military news and analysis
China Defense Blog and forum
Defense Update
Tanks and AFV news
Below the Turret Ring
Globalsecurity - best enjoyed with private browsing.
The Unwanted Blog
UK Armed Forces Commentary
ThinkDefense
Russian strategic nuclear forces
Russian Military Reform
Cannons, Machine guns and Ammunition
World Guns

There used to be a good blog called "Information Dissemination" but then it got some good press and Galrahn's head went up his *** and he made it "invite only'. So I'm just leaving this here to mock him.

If you would like to see something in this section, PM me.
Last edited by The Kievan People on Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:49 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Heavonia
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Postby Heavonia » Wed Aug 03, 2016 11:46 am

Is it a solid thing for security services to have their own direct action troops rather than solely relying on military SF for wetwork?
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The Kievan People
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Postby The Kievan People » Wed Aug 03, 2016 11:48 am

Yeah.

The CIA has them.

Russian agencies have them.
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Postby Shonburg » Wed Aug 03, 2016 11:56 am

From the other thread.
Western Weyard wrote:
Shonburg wrote:1. Because my nation did not have the budget.
2. My reading comprehension failed me when I read about the Navy variant of the F-16. Changed it to the carrier capable F-15N.
3. Added some AEW&C, the Sea Stallions and Hueys are for ASW

- I strongly doubt that it would make a big difference, given the fact that your country built it itself. If you don't have money, yet still want to have a carrier, you could always get a used one. That's what pretty much everyone did after WW2.
- Now you've got two types of air-to-air jets, but nothing for air-to-ground. (Yes, the 'Cat can be used in an air-to-ground role, but still...)
- Sea Stallions and Hueys are primarily transport helicopters. Why not use specialized ASW birds like Lynx, Merlin, Seahawk or Sea King?

1. My nation has a long history of shipbuilding, and by popular support for the idea, we built it ourselves. The shipbuilding industry and Navy also wanted the experience.
2. What do you reccomend then? I chose the F14 because it was multirole...
3. What's the difference between the Sea Staillion, Sea King and Seahawk? I use the Hueys for ASW and S&R operations
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The Technocratic Syndicalists
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Postby The Technocratic Syndicalists » Wed Aug 03, 2016 11:56 am

Heavonia wrote:Is it a solid thing for security services to have their own direct action troops rather than solely relying on military SF for wetwork?


The CIA has its own paramilitary wing called the Special Activities Division (SAD) which in turn has a sub-unit called the Special Operations Group (SOG) which does all the secret boogeyman/black ops jazz. Basically DEVGRU/Delta +1.

Shonburg wrote:1. My nation has a long history of shipbuilding, and by popular support for the idea, we built it ourselves. The shipbuilding industry and Navy also wanted the experience.
2. What do you reccomend then? I chose the F14 because it was multirole...
3. What's the difference between the Sea Staillion, Sea King and Seahawk? I use the Hueys for ASW and S&R operations


The F-14B " bombcat" and F-14D Super Tomcat both have AtG capability.

Sea Stallion is a heavy lift helicopter. Sea king and Seahawk are much smaller and are utility/ASW helicopters.
Last edited by The Technocratic Syndicalists on Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:02 pm

The Kievan People wrote:Yeah.

The CIA has them.

Russian agencies have them.

Does the CIA still have them? I assumed they just seconded certain SOF.
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Husseinarti
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Postby Husseinarti » Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:10 pm

The CIA has them so they can do things w/o the armed forces needing privy to it.
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Western Weyard
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Postby Western Weyard » Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:11 pm

Shonburg wrote:From the other thread.

1. My nation has a long history of shipbuilding, and by popular support for the idea, we built it ourselves. The shipbuilding industry and Navy also wanted the experience.
2. What do you reccomend then? I chose the F14 because it was multirole...
3. What's the difference between the Sea Staillion, Sea King and Seahawk? I use the Hueys for ASW and S&R operations

- Okay, fair point there.
- Well, depends on how much money you have available.
- Again, the Sea Stallion is a big-ass transport helicopter. The Sea King and the Seahawk are ASW/multirole platforms, depending on the version.

Imperializt Russia wrote:Does the CIA still have them? I assumed they just seconded certain SOF.

Yes.
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Ardavia
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Postby Ardavia » Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:15 pm

so as my first post in the new thread
I've been thinking about unit structures

In the Commonwealth Army, the division is the basic maneuver unit. A division is formed of an HQ and three regiments (i.e. brigades), each of which is formed of four battalions. In addition to this, the regiment has one field artillery battalion, consisting of a HQ battery and three firing batteries (fielding eight barrels per battery). The regiment also contains one combat engineer battalion, and a forward support battalion. In addition to these regiments, the Division has:

  • Division Command, formed of the Divisional HQ company, an FSB, the divisional signal company, and an operations company. DIVCOM coordinates overall divisional operations.
  • Divisional Artillery, a brigade composed of a HQ battery, two field artillery battalions, a rocket artillery battalion, a signal company, and a forward support battalion.
  • Divisional Reconnaissance. Consists of a headquarters company, two mounted reconnaissance battalions, an airmobile light infantry battalion, and an FSB.
  • Divisional Aviation, an aviation brigade which operates rotorwing gunships and serves as an airborne fire brigade and RRF.
  • Divisional Support Command, which administrates over CS/CSS on a division-wide scale.

Artillery lives at three levels:
The battalion, where you have six not!AMOS vehicles with 120mm mortars; the regiment, where you have a field artillery battalion with 24 SPHs or towed guns; and the division, where you have 48 SPHs (or towed guns) and 6 MLRS vehicles.

Each regiment has a forward support battalion attached that handles the logistics and general support for that brigade, and these battalions are coordinated by DISCOM. These FSBs handle logistics, medical, maintenance, etc. services.

Depending on whether it's a cavalry, infantry, or armoured division, the specific layout of the division's regiments changes. An infantry division generally has two motorized rifle regiments (mounted in APCs) and an armoured regiment, a cavalry division has two mechanized rifle regiments (mounted in IFVs) and a tank regiment, and an armoured division has two tank regiments and a mechanized rifle regiment.



now, I had a few questions

A) helicopter gunships, how useful would they be in the role described in a large-scale conventional war in central european terrain against a parity opponent? i.e. should I scrap Divisional Aviation or not
B) what exactly is a "target acquisition battery"?
C) am I missing any elements that generally go at the division level?
D) are the CS/CSS elements large enough?
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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:21 pm

Is it reasonable to have twenty million lolswords? :33333 :clap: :clap: :clap:

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Postby Licana » Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:22 pm

Husseinarti wrote:The CIA has them so they can do things w/o the armed forces needing privy to it.


but shhhh its a big sekrit
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So was the M-16.

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Postby Puzikas » Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:23 pm

>implying this isn't a consolidated effort by the political elites of the MilTech community to consolidate power in a few hands

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Postby Shonburg » Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:24 pm

Western Weyard wrote:
Shonburg wrote:From the other thread.

1. My nation has a long history of shipbuilding, and by popular support for the idea, we built it ourselves. The shipbuilding industry and Navy also wanted the experience.
2. What do you reccomend then? I chose the F14 because it was multirole...
3. What's the difference between the Sea Staillion, Sea King and Seahawk? I use the Hueys for ASW and S&R operations

- Okay, fair point there.
- Well, depends on how much money you have available.
- Again, the Sea Stallion is a big-ass transport helicopter. The Sea King and the Seahawk are ASW/multirole platforms, depending on the version.

Imperializt Russia wrote:Does the CIA still have them? I assumed they just seconded certain SOF.

Yes.
The Technocratic Syndicalists wrote:
Heavonia wrote:Is it a solid thing for security services to have their own direct action troops rather than solely relying on military SF for wetwork?


The CIA has its own paramilitary wing called the Special Activities Division (SAD) which in turn has a sub-unit called the Special Operations Group (SOG) which does all the secret boogeyman/black ops jazz. Basically DEVGRU/Delta +1.

Shonburg wrote:1. My nation has a long history of shipbuilding, and by popular support for the idea, we built it ourselves. The shipbuilding industry and Navy also wanted the experience.
2. What do you reccomend then? I chose the F14 because it was multirole...
3. What's the difference between the Sea Staillion, Sea King and Seahawk? I use the Hueys for ASW and S&R operations


The F-14B " bombcat" and F-14D Super Tomcat both have AtG capability.

Sea Stallion is a heavy lift helicopter. Sea king and Seahawk are much smaller and are utility/ASW helicopters.

Okay, thank you. :)
I'll replace the 24 x F14s with 24 x F14D(R)s (Which can do AtG and AtA both, right?). And I'll replace the 4 x Sea Stallions with 6 x Seahawks, 1 for SAR/CSAR, 3 for ASW, and 2 for ASUW.
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Western Weyard
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Postby Western Weyard » Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:27 pm

Shonburg wrote:I'll replace the 24 x F14s with 24 x F14D(R)s (Which can do AtG and AtA both, right?). And I'll replace the 4 x Sea Stallions with 6 x Seahawks, 1 for SAR/CSAR, 3 for ASW, and 2 for ASUW.

Why not ditch the F-15Ns as well and go full-on F-14?
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Shonburg
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Postby Shonburg » Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:32 pm

Western Weyard wrote:
Shonburg wrote:I'll replace the 24 x F14s with 24 x F14D(R)s (Which can do AtG and AtA both, right?). And I'll replace the 4 x Sea Stallions with 6 x Seahawks, 1 for SAR/CSAR, 3 for ASW, and 2 for ASUW.

Why not ditch the F-15Ns as well and go full-on F-14?

I will admit to some bias here, my grandfather flew F-15s :p. But what's the difference? Aren't F-15s better than F-14s? (Please excuse my naivete, my knowledge of aircraft declines sharply after 1953)
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Western Weyard
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Postby Western Weyard » Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:40 pm

Shonburg wrote:
Western Weyard wrote:Why not ditch the F-15Ns as well and go full-on F-14?

I will admit to some bias here, my grandfather flew F-15s :p. But what's the difference? Aren't F-15s better than F-14s? (Please excuse my naivete, my knowledge of aircraft declines sharply after 1953)

Look at it this way: What can the F-15 do that the F-14 can't?
They're both good AtA jets, but the F-14 brings the added benefit of being able to conduct AtG missions.
Also, logistics. On land, you can get away with different types of aircraft doing nearly the same job. On a carrier, not so much, since you can't just send a truck to the next supply depot to get new spare parts.
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Shonburg
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Postby Shonburg » Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:40 pm

Western Weyard wrote:
Shonburg wrote:I will admit to some bias here, my grandfather flew F-15s :p. But what's the difference? Aren't F-15s better than F-14s? (Please excuse my naivete, my knowledge of aircraft declines sharply after 1953)

Look at it this way: What can the F-15 do that the F-14 can't?
They're both good AtA jets, but the F-14 brings the added benefit of being able to conduct AtG missions.
Also, logistics. On land, you can get away with different types of aircraft doing nearly the same job. On a carrier, not so much, since you can't just send a truck to the next supply depot to get new spare parts.

Good point, I'll be changing that then.
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Postby Immoren » Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:46 pm

Field Medicine
Usage
  • Medical company of Brigade Service Battalion will establish a primary care center, whose main task is the surgical primary care provision for the wounded and their evacuation
  • In an emergency care centre wounded are given only the most essential measures to save life, limb, and eyesight
  • An emergency care centre carries out some emergency 30 surgeries in a day

Overview of the Field Medicine
Requirements for field medicine have increased sharply in recent decades. Wars and other crises, and armed battles taking place at the same time over a wide area, and there no clear fronts and front lines. Modern guns produce a lot of severe injuries, and especially the number of multi-trauma patients has increased. The are also increasing among the civilian population.

In Immoren, the Immorean Defence Forces relies on the national health care service in casualty management in the crisis conditions. The Defence Forces are responsible for field medicine and medical care, as well as the transportation to the follow-up treatment of patients in need to the civilian hospitals. The main areas of the current field medicine are combatant-specific first aid skills, rapid patient transport, emergency care, as well as liquid and field surgery. Field medical system consists of medical care establishments of different levels in the organization field troops. Field Medical System is a medical service chain that begins at platoon level and ends with the evacuation hospital. Patients are transported from "the front line" towards the evacuation hospital and medical material needed for their care towards the opposite direction.

Treatment of the wounded is one of the key aspects in the morale. Quick and right first aid can save not only life, but also prevent further injuries.

Aims of the Field Medicine
Objective of the field medicine is to give the maximum benefit as many patients as possible by using the patient reports. Quality of the treatment should be as close as possible to the peacetime standards. First-aid and surgical emergency care must be provided up-front as close as possible to the location of injury. The wounded must be evacuated, ideally within an hour, but no later than six hours to the surgical emergency medical care and treatment should be unbroken through the evacuation chain.

Field Medicine in Brigades
Modern doctrines poses new challenges to the brigades in field. As compared to international standards, the main shortcomings were the lack of a surgical care, as well as the ability at brigade level as well as lack of health care professionals at platoon and company level.

A solution to these problems, brigade organization has added the medical company and healthcare professionals. Brigade has taken into account the latest developments in the sector and fulfills the very international compatibility requirements of the corresponding level.

Medic is responsible for field care at the platoon level. ¤he most important functions in wounded treatment are saving the situation, securing the respiration and circulation, shock and injuries first aid and emergency medical care as well as patient handling and placing on the transportation condition. Slightly wounded give first aid to themselves. Severely wounded, emergency first aid is given by their battle buddy. Medic supplements first aid, and start the next level treatment. Medic also makes an initial patient study and organize the evacuation of patients to the company first aid spot. Evacuation is done with any vehicles platoon might have.

The company medical team sets up by the first aid spot with task to give physician level care for the wounded. The team is consists of a medical officer and medical NCO and three medics. All of them healthcare professionals. First aid Spot can be set up medical team's fighting vehicle or outside the vehicle, tent, lean, dugout or other fixed building. Medical team does not have a separate vehicle for evacuation, but patients either picked up with vehicles from battalion's field care station or company's own vehicles.

Battalion's medical platoon consists of two medical officers, four medical non-commissioned officers, as well as 12 medical specialists. Primary goal of the field care station set up by the medical platoon is the patient evacuations.

Field care station contains battalion's primary evacuation capability. Concentration makes easier to secure patient evacuations to the brigade level field hospital. Patients are primarily evacuated from battalion field care station to the brigade field hospital, but they can also be used for evacuating patients directly to the evacuation hospitals, but given that the armoured ambulances are meant for evacuations under battlefield conditions, driving them long times behind the friendly lines can be seen as waste of capability.

Medical company of the brigade support battalion sets up field care centre stationed in containers and tents. Its primary task is primary surgical care and evacuations for the patients. It consists of command and support platoon, evacuation platoon and surgery platoon. Strength of the company is 94 of which 12 is doctors and 48 is other medical personnel. Surgery platoon sets up two surgery stations. Medical company acts normally in collected manner, but can easily be split into two parts. In war evacuations are done in sequences so that the readiness of care can be ensured in all the times.Only immediate tasks to save life, limb and eye sight are done at field care centres, from which patients are evacuated to the evacuation hospitals and field hospitals.

Casualty evacuation.
Instant access to treatment reduces mortality substantially and the delays in access to care increase it sharply. Casualty evacuation is usually the most critical when delivering wounded from the casualty spot to the primary care at the company. Land transport is a Basic solution, while helicopters are used where situation allows. Rough terrain vehicles are used in early parts of the Casualty evacuation. Ambulance team is responsible for evacuations behind the lines. Its use is an ambulances as well as buses and vans with medical equipment.

Field Medical Equipment

Defence Forces takes care equipping its troops with basic medical equipment. Material purchased in advance already in peacetime and packed under the field of medical titles. Medicines and other rapidly perishable materials purchased when troops are set up. Material supplies are brought from civilian factories and whole salers using logistics channels of the civilian sector up to the evacuation hospital. Here the material is divided among the troops along with patient evacuations.
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Laritaia
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Postby Laritaia » Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:10 pm

Western Weyard wrote:
Shonburg wrote:I will admit to some bias here, my grandfather flew F-15s :p. But what's the difference? Aren't F-15s better than F-14s? (Please excuse my naivete, my knowledge of aircraft declines sharply after 1953)

Look at it this way: What can the F-15 do that the F-14 can't?
They're both good AtA jets, but the F-14 brings the added benefit of being able to conduct AtG missions.
Also, logistics. On land, you can get away with different types of aircraft doing nearly the same job. On a carrier, not so much, since you can't just send a truck to the next supply depot to get new spare parts.


The F-14 is significantly more expensive to operate, both in monetary expenditure and man hours of maintenance required per hour of flight time.

plus the F-15 is perfectly capable of conducting the A2G mission, the USAF just never really bothered certifying it to do so as they had plenty of other aircraft for that mission. other nations that don't have vast resources of the USAF(and aren't japan) elected to buy the mudhen which can do everything the regular turkey can as well as A2G on top of having a more durable and longer lasting airframe.

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Western Weyard
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Postby Western Weyard » Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:12 pm

Laritaia wrote:
Western Weyard wrote:Look at it this way: What can the F-15 do that the F-14 can't?
They're both good AtA jets, but the F-14 brings the added benefit of being able to conduct AtG missions.
Also, logistics. On land, you can get away with different types of aircraft doing nearly the same job. On a carrier, not so much, since you can't just send a truck to the next supply depot to get new spare parts.


The F-14 is significantly more expensive to operate, both in monetary expenditure and man hours of maintenance required per hour of flight time.

plus the F-15 is perfectly capable of conducting the A2G mission, the USAF just never really bothered certifying it to do so as they had plenty of other aircraft for that mission. other nations that don't have vast resources of the USAF(and aren't japan) elected to buy the mudhen which can do everything the regular turkey can as well as A2G on top of having a more durable and longer lasting airframe.

I'm not saying the F-15 can't do AtG, but we're talking carrier aviation here. Last time I checked, the Mudhen wasn't carrier capable.
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Laritaia
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Postby Laritaia » Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:13 pm

Western Weyard wrote:
Laritaia wrote:
The F-14 is significantly more expensive to operate, both in monetary expenditure and man hours of maintenance required per hour of flight time.

plus the F-15 is perfectly capable of conducting the A2G mission, the USAF just never really bothered certifying it to do so as they had plenty of other aircraft for that mission. other nations that don't have vast resources of the USAF(and aren't japan) elected to buy the mudhen which can do everything the regular turkey can as well as A2G on top of having a more durable and longer lasting airframe.

I'm not saying the F-15 can't do AtG, but we're talking carrier aviation here. Last time I checked, the Mudhen wasn't carrier capable.


neither is the regular F-15.

we're in the realm of complete hypotheticals here

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Western Weyard
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Postby Western Weyard » Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:15 pm

Laritaia wrote:
Western Weyard wrote:I'm not saying the F-15 can't do AtG, but we're talking carrier aviation here. Last time I checked, the Mudhen wasn't carrier capable.


neither is the regular F-15.

we're in the realm of complete hypotheticals here

Carrier capable Hog. I can haz pls?
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Laritaia
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Postby Laritaia » Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:17 pm

Western Weyard wrote:
Laritaia wrote:
neither is the regular F-15.

we're in the realm of complete hypotheticals here

Carrier capable Hog. I can haz pls?


no because that would be fairly pointless.

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Western Weyard
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Postby Western Weyard » Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:18 pm

Laritaia wrote:
Western Weyard wrote:Carrier capable Hog. I can haz pls?


no because that would be fairly pointless.

Damn. :(
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Founded: Nov 04, 2004
Democratic Socialists

Postby Dostanuot Loj » Wed Aug 03, 2016 3:20 pm

As the legitimate winner of the voting* I support and endorse this coup.

In my mind only.
Leopard 1 IRL

Kyiv is my disobedient child. :P

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