Infantry Discussion Thread 9: Parabellum [NO KAIJU]

[Rhodesialund]

Or, you could do it like LMT and New Zealand did, and have the blade horizontal unlike the retarded abortions that others posted where the blade is vertical.


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The only reason the blade is horizontal is because that is a system that is adapted to allow the use of standard bayonets.

The L85 bayonet is the standard bayonet for UK forces, so obviously doesn't need adapting.

If one is an assigned grenadier with an M203, not really sure why that person is bothering to fix bayonets in the first place though.

THe L85 Bayonet is a fail abortion that for some reason the MoD decided to keep because "British Things." That's evidence of the retardation of the British Military-Industrial Complex.

[Militia of the Free]

It's why I am not in favor of bayonets. I'd prefer some brass knuckles or a normal knife for that matter. Having a knife mounted on a gun is only an obstacle IMO.

How is it an obstacle? The point of bayonet fighting is less the practical ability to kill your opponent (though that is obviously present given reach and presumably the force one is able to lever with a five-kilogram spear) and more the psychological effect of breaching the enemy line.

Granted bayonet charges does give a shock effect but the same can be accomplished with a general breach in. And the five kilograms doesn't count much up to the 80kg mass of a human + the speed which he runs. I've seen bayonets stabbing people, the effects are the same when using a combat knife.

[Purpelia]

Or, you could do it like LMT and New Zealand did, and have the blade horizontal unlike the retarded abortions that others posted where the blade is vertical.

That is how I envisioned it. I would quite literally just take a regular rifle bayonet and mount it at a 90 degrees rotation to what is usually done.

As to why, well simply put I want to retain comparability with all previous bayonets including the Model 1890 Sword bayonet.

[Rhodesialund]

Or, you could do it like LMT and New Zealand did, and have the blade horizontal unlike the retarded abortions that others posted where the blade is vertical.

That is how I envisioned it. I would quite literally just take a regular rifle bayonet and mount it at a 90 degrees rotation to what is usually done.

As to why, well simply put I want to retain comparability with all previous bayonets including the Model 1890 Sword bayonet.

One of the reasons why I made a post about this a while ago, is that the original "Top/Bottom" bayonets were envisioned as being in use against cavalry units, horse mounted. Look at the rib cage of a horse, then look at the rib cage of a human being.

It's easier to slip a horizontally mounted bayonet between the ribs of a human, and it is easier to slip a vertical bayonet between the ribs of a horse.

[Crookfur]

Or, you could do it like LMT and New Zealand did, and have the blade horizontal unlike the retarded abortions that others posted where the blade is vertical.

That is how I envisioned it. I would quite literally just take a regular rifle bayonet and mount it at a 90 degrees rotation to what is usually done.

As to why, well simply put I want to retain comparability with all previous bayonets including the Model 1890 Sword bayonet.

It's been done and likely will continue to be done. IIRC quite a few of the early socket bayonets actually put the blade to the side of the barrel.

[Purpelia]

Well in that case I'll probably do it that way. One question though, and this one is KEY.

If I have a bunch of guys on parade with their ~500mm blade sword bayonets fitted will the side mounting make them look less dapper?

[Imperializt Russia]

That is how I envisioned it. I would quite literally just take a regular rifle bayonet and mount it at a 90 degrees rotation to what is usually done.

As to why, well simply put I want to retain comparability with all previous bayonets including the Model 1890 Sword bayonet.

One of the reasons why I made a post about this a while ago, is that the original "Top/Bottom" bayonets were envisioned as being in use against cavalry units, horse mounted. Look at the rib cage of a horse, then look at the rib cage of a human being.

It's easier to slip a horizontally mounted bayonet between the ribs of a human, and it is easier to slip a vertical bayonet between the ribs of a horse.

If you're close enough to stick a horse in the ribs with a bayonet, you're probably getting trampled regardless.
So I'm doubtful of how correct that supposition is.

This doesn't mean it's untrue that it would be easier to fit a vertical bayonet between a horse's larger, more spacious ribs than they are of a human's.
The Mosin's various side-mounted bayonets were cruciform bayonets, not blades. Non-Soviet users often fashioned more traditional under-barrel bayonets for use with them. The SKS had an under-mounted bayonet, again of cruciform type, not blade.

[Fordorsia]

The L85's bayonet is all one piece and made of craptastic steel. It shouldn't even be acknowledged, let alone used as an example for why something is a good idea.

If you have any bayonet whose edge isn't in line with the barrel, your ability to stab and cut with it will be affected accuracy-wise. An inch or two doesn't sound like much, but it will always be better to have it under the barrel, and as close to the barrel as possible.

Then again no one uses bayonets in combat anymore so you could have it facing backwards and it wouldn't matter.

[Imperializt Russia]

An inch is nothing when you're using your rifle as a spear (as one does with a bayonet), and your precision is "abdomen" or "thorax".

[Laritaia]

The L85 bayonet serves the purpose of being a pointy bit of metal admirably, the replacement however is going to have to be substantially more high tech based on the outlandish list of requirements the MoD has for it.

[Purpelia]

An inch is nothing when you're using your rifle as a spear (as one does with a bayonet), and your precision is "abdomen" or "thorax".

Would you be aiming for either of those these days? Won't that be where the thick ceramic plates are?

[Rhodesialund]

If you're close enough to stick a horse in the ribs with a bayonet, you're probably getting trampled regardless.
So I'm doubtful of how correct that supposition is.

This doesn't mean it's untrue that it would be easier to fit a vertical bayonet between a horse's larger, more spacious ribs than they are of a human's.
The Mosin's various side-mounted bayonets were cruciform bayonets, not blades. Non-Soviet users often fashioned more traditional under-barrel bayonets for use with them. The SKS had an under-mounted bayonet, again of cruciform type, not blade.

It's rather correct, covered in "Cold Steel: The History of the Bayonet" by the BBC. Keep in mind, the length of the weapons at the time in the 18th/19th century were rather substantial. Couple that with a 24 inch blade at the end. Akin to carrying a pike that spews smoke and lead.

[Fordorsia]

The L85 bayonet serves the purpose of being a pointy bit of metal admirably, the replacement however is going to have to be substantially more high tech based on the outlandish list of requirements the MoD has for it.

I didn't know this was a thing. Are they actually planning to replace it?

[Purpelia]

How awkward would it look if I had my military units parade in traditional dress instead of modern stuff? As in, basically have the parade uniforms be Napoleonic era styled.

[Sevvania]

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I accidentally an SPIW (the S stands for "Something," the W stands for "What?") and an automatic subcarbine instead.

Will you be linearting these up eventually?

I generally stick to a combination of PMG and Paint.

@Purpelia:

Assuming your army actually has traditions dating back to Napoleonic times is there any reason why the day to day work uniform of army staff who are in purely non combat staff duties and don't need to have too practical clothing (clerks, PR and HR people and other such stuff) should need to be modernized as opposed to maintaining full Napoleonic flare?

Compared to modern garments napoleonic garb is uncomfortable and expensive.

This is why all the nations with traditions dating to and before the napoleonic era have moved with the times to shirt, jacket and trousers and even thier mess dress has moved to later 19th century cuts.

The best staff wear combats, a shirt and a wooly pully

[Fordorsia]

How awkward would it look if I had my military units parade in traditional dress instead of modern stuff? As in, basically have the parade uniforms be Napoleonic era styled.

Plenty still do. Ceremonial dress tends to not change.

[Purpelia]

Comfort isn't an issue for parade uniforms. They will be worn once a year, or maybe several years for less than a day total.
Also, I was thinking of more like using modern uniforms and equipment and stuff but with a heavy splash of anachronism.

So for example you would have a company of tanks driving down the road being lead by the company commander on a horse (my tanks are considered cavalry).
Soldiers marching in modern uniforms but with fixed 500mm sword bayonets and shiny metal helmets with spikes.
And of course all officers would be marching with their swords drawn and have the ye-old style helmets with a big spike and helmet decoration in stead of their modern gear.


Basically the idea is to make the army look inspired by Napoleonic fashion to display the traditions of the old units.

[Gallia-]

The L85 bayonet serves the purpose of being a pointy bit of metal admirably, the replacement however is going to have to be substantially more high tech based on the outlandish list of requirements the MoD has for it.

tell us of this fturkniv

[Fordorsia]

Remember to keep in mind that the ceremonial dresses used current gear and were originally designed too look good. Having a shiny anachronistic ceremonial helmet with bland, boring looking modern stuff probably won't look good.

[Purpelia]

Remember to keep in mind that the ceremonial dresses used current gear and were originally designed too look good. Having a shiny anachronistic ceremonial helmet with bland, boring looking modern stuff probably won't look good.

I figure that a gold helmet would look good with anything remotely green looking though. So whilst it's not going to look as fantastic as front lacing jackets and stuff I imagine... well actually I'll see if I can get anyone better than me to draw it in CYOE or give it a go my self as soon as my exams are over.\


EDIT: Fuck it. I'll just go full regimental and have Napoleonic dress uniforms and stuff, complete with front lacing. Nothing beats a good golden rope laced across your chest.

[Fordorsia]

Also also keep in mind that the pictured helmet is a dragoon helmet. Don't be giving your infantry cavalry helmets, you damn pleb.

Here you go

[Allanea]

Dragoons fight dismounted.

in Reichskamphen [my backwards nation] dragoons have morphed into elite mechanized infantry.

[Eisarn-Ara]

Dragoons fight dismounted.

in Reichskamphen [my backwards nation] dragoons have morphed into elite mechanized infantry.

I did the same with my Cataphracts, except it went like so: Cataphracts> Heavy Dragoons > Armored Car Deploying Infantry> Heavy Mechanized Infantry And then some day Power Armored Infantry along the lines of Heinlein or "Armor" with lots of Cold War scifi flair.

[Gallia-]

Also also keep in mind that the pictured helmet is a dragoon helmet. Don't be giving your infantry cavalry helmets, you damn pleb.

in the grim mechanized future all men are cavalrymen

iiwiki.com/wiki/Gallan_Army#Personnel

e: except truck drivers, gunners, and paratroopers

[Schwere Panzer Abteilung 502]

Classical cataphracts never fought dismounted unless they'd been unhorsed; they were shock cavalry.