Infantry Discussion Thread 9: Parabellum [NO KAIJU]

[United Latin Lesbians]

but it just can't say "Caliber 5.56mm NATO" on the rifle.
Or Caliber: MULTI I think??

Just file it off with the serial number.

[Puzikas]

if you outlaw guns only you will have guns?

Yuropenn
Sozilizt
Helskape

Just file it off with the serial number.

"Doesn't say 5.56 it's legal fuk u Gendarmerie"

[Gallia-]

if you outlaw guns only you will have guns?

Yuropenn
Sozilizt
Helskape

the bestskape

[Aqizithiuda]

(Image)

originally was going to be brass-based for laziness

then i remember PDW-R had the forward mid-ejection

futuru "cyberpunk" PDW-R can now be proper bullpup LSAT

Primer pocket and proper base attachment when?

Edit:apparently the 7.62x51mm is scientifically more effective than the 5.56x45mm on a weight for weight basis (see around pg 40)

[Gallia-]

bring back the slr

[Spreewerke]

In the places where I've worked where none of our firearms were standardized, people sort of "forced" their own standardization simply because they wanted the ability to use one another's gear if one of them went down during a firefight or needed spare ammo from the other guy.

Is this the kind of scenario regular officers actually prepare for?

There was no SWAT unit where I worked. Where I work now has the only SWAT unit for probably 100+ miles in any direction, at that. We have issued guns where I am now, but they're purposefully the same as what other agencies in the area carry in case we work together on a call/standoff/shooting/etc.

Where I used to work, I ended up going with a 9x19mm. I wasn't too concerned with my handgun being compatible with the other officer I was with because I had an AR-15 in the car. If he ended up using all his ammo, I'd just let him use my G17 and give them all my mags. I'd still have my AR-15 and 300+ rounds of ammunition for it and my snub-nose back up gun in my shirt pocket.

[Allanea]

Bear in mind here that in the US, milsurp rifles flooding the market caused US gun companies - in the 1960s and up to the 1990s - lobby for more gun control, specifically for import restrictions on military surplus and other firearms.

[Puzikas]

(Image)

originally was going to be brass-based for laziness

then i remember PDW-R had the forward mid-ejection

futuru "cyberpunk" PDW-R can now be proper bullpup LSAT

Primer pocket and proper base attachment when?

Edit:apparently the 7.62x51mm is scientifically more effective than the 5.56x45mm on a weight for weight basis (see around pg 40)

I'd been looking for that fucking paper for months.
Thank you.

E: unless this is a totally different paper and just covers the same topic :|

[Aqizithiuda]

Primer pocket and proper base attachment when?

Edit:apparently the 7.62x51mm is scientifically more effective than the 5.56x45mm on a weight for weight basis (see around pg 40)

I'd been looking for that fucking paper for months.
Thank you.

E: unless this is a totally different paper and just covers the same topic :|

I'm pretty sure it's the same one, just updated.

[Imperializt Russia]

Is this the kind of scenario regular officers actually prepare for?

There was no SWAT unit where I worked. Where I work now has the only SWAT unit for probably 100+ miles in any direction, at that. We have issued guns where I am now, but they're purposefully the same as what other agencies in the area carry in case we work together on a call/standoff/shooting/etc.

Where I used to work, I ended up going with a 9x19mm. I wasn't too concerned with my handgun being compatible with the other officer I was with because I had an AR-15 in the car. If he ended up using all his ammo, I'd just let him use my G17 and give them all my mags. I'd still have my AR-15 and 300+ rounds of ammunition for it and my snub-nose back up gun in my shirt pocket.

I've missed your insight.

No luck persuading the department to buy in some SGLs?

[EsToVnIa]

(Image)

originally was going to be brass-based for laziness

then i remember PDW-R had the forward mid-ejection

futuru "cyberpunk" PDW-R can now be proper bullpup LSAT

Primer pocket and proper base attachment when?

Edit:apparently the 7.62x51mm is scientifically more effective than the 5.56x45mm on a weight for weight basis (see around pg 40)

Honestly I'm not 100% sure what you mean by that.

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2012armaments/ ... ummond.pdf the cut away was based solely on this

[Gallia-]

you lack the bottleneck that one has

[EsToVnIa]

like the case itself needs to be bottlenecked?

[The Kievan People]

When the bullet is actually embedded in the propellant the internal ballistic efficiency will suck. Maybe if you had some kind of magical propellant with very precise, variable, burn rates (in other words, if you could make it burn just so the projectile will escape the cartridge before the propellant around the projectile has burned) you could make an efficient CTA/Caseless projectile.

But that's some PMT magic.

[Rhodesialund]

When the bullet is actually embedded in the propellant the internal ballistic efficiency will suck. Maybe if you had some kind of magical propellant with very precise, variable, burn rates (in other words, if you could make it burn just so the projectile will escape the cartridge before the propellant around the projectile has burned) you could make an efficient CTA/Caseless projectile.

But that's some PMT magic.

Not PMT magic, just a matter of investing time and money into making it reality. We have the materials and know how.

[The Kievan People]

Well,

Doing it at a cost which is reasonable for modern small arms ammunition would be PMT. You'd need to print the propellant charge or something like that.

[Aqizithiuda]

Primer pocket and proper base attachment when?

Edit:apparently the 7.62x51mm is scientifically more effective than the 5.56x45mm on a weight for weight basis (see around pg 40)

Honestly I'm not 100% sure what you mean by that.

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2012armaments/ ... ummond.pdf the cut away was based solely on this

The base of your cartridge is an entirely different material from the rest of the body and you're missing the upside down steel insert with a flash hole that the primer is inserted into. It's all there in the image.

When the bullet is actually embedded in the propellant the internal ballistic efficiency will suck. Maybe if you had some kind of magical propellant with very precise, variable, burn rates (in other words, if you could make it burn just so the projectile will escape the cartridge before the propellant around the projectile has burned) you could make an efficient CTA/Caseless projectile.

But that's some PMT magic.

LSAT has had that PMT magic for the last five or six years.

[Gallia-]

like the case itself needs to be bottlenecked?

the bullet serves to obturate the gas which is why it ends at the cannelure rather than the tip

putting propellant ahead of the bullet, you will need some sort of "booster" to accelerate the bullet into the bore (plus segregating bullet and propellant) like the hughes lockless, or accept the fact that you're going to be leaking a ton of propellant into the bore for no gain

it has less powder than a conventional cased bullet and takes up a larger vol too

this is why CTA requires such high powered propellants and subsequently erodes throats

its main advantage is that is slightly lighter, but not by a whole bunch or anything

you are better just using conventional cased ammunition by far even if it's more boring

but both CTA and caseless ammunition are dead end technologies atm

[Rhodesialund]

Well,

Doing it at a cost which is reasonable for modern small arms ammunition would be PMT. You'd need to print the propellant charge or something like that.

Cost is not astronomical like some would think. And there is no need to "print" a propellant charge, unless the manufacturer decides that printing is a necessity.

[Gallia-]

LSAT has had that PMT magic for the last five or six years.

LSAT's "PMT magic" is an internal bottleneck.

[Rhodesialund]

its main advantage is that is slightly lighter, but not by a whole bunch or anything

That's the point of it. Look at the individual weights, then compare them when you have a C-17 or transport truck stocked to the brim with the rounds. It'll cost less to transport and keep soldiers well supplied.

[Rhodesialund]

Also, for cartridge weight comparisons.

[Aqizithiuda]

Also, for cartridge weight comparisons.




(Image)

They included weight savings from using polymer links in those figures, just fyi.

[Rhodesialund]

Also, for cartridge weight comparisons.




(Image)

They included weight savings from using polymer links in those figures, just fyi.

Which is not a bad thing either, just further weight reduction efforts.

[Spreewerke]

There was no SWAT unit where I worked. Where I work now has the only SWAT unit for probably 100+ miles in any direction, at that. We have issued guns where I am now, but they're purposefully the same as what other agencies in the area carry in case we work together on a call/standoff/shooting/etc.

Where I used to work, I ended up going with a 9x19mm. I wasn't too concerned with my handgun being compatible with the other officer I was with because I had an AR-15 in the car. If he ended up using all his ammo, I'd just let him use my G17 and give them all my mags. I'd still have my AR-15 and 300+ rounds of ammunition for it and my snub-nose back up gun in my shirt pocket.

I've missed your insight.

No luck persuading the department to buy in some SGLs?

They had initially given me the go-ahead to use my SGL 31, actually. http://i.imgur.com/CGs59H6.jpg

I ended up coming across a pretty decent AR-15 at a good price before I started actually working there, though, and went with it because I figured it'd make more sense to have an AR. Every other LE agency would be using ARs, everyone else at that agency with a rifle had an AR, and if it came to rifles being out, if a guy needed more ammo, since I was also using an AR, I could just throw them an extra mag or let them loot my patrol bag for spare mags and ammo. I didn't want to screw them over by being like, "I'd let you pick up one of my 300+ rounds of ammo, but it won't work with your gun." Didn't want to find myself needing ammunition and then not being able to use any of theirs, either.

Standardization just made more sense, even if it was vastly more expensive since I had to buy a new rifle and configure it. I'd take monetary cost over whatever cost is associated with the myriad of hypotheticals where I need to use someone else's equipment or vice versa. We didn't have an agency armorer or anything like that, so parts commonality didn't come into play at all here, for what it's worth. It was pretty much 100% down to ammo and mags.