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by Rodrania » Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:57 pm
by Eisarn-Ara » Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:10 pm
by Fordorsia » Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:17 pm
Crookfur wrote:Fordorsia wrote:
What if the bullet didn't have an outer shell, but it had the main body that kept it in place and the penetrator was sticking halfway out of the body? That way it hits the target first and isn't slowed by anything in front of it hitting first. When the body hits, it comes away from the penetrator as the penetrator goes into the target.
I don't know what I'm doing so I could have just described the exact thing that happens.
Uncapped APCR/HVAP ammo did exist but it was found that a ballistic tip helped the penetrator dig in and made it much less likely to shatter. The ballistic cap also allowed a more aerodynamic projectile.
San-Silvacian wrote:Forgot to take off my Rhodie shorts when I went to sleep.
Woke up in bitches and enemy combatants.
Crookfur wrote:Speak for yourself, Crookfur infantry enjoy the sheer uber high speed low drag operator nature of their tactical woad
Spreewerke wrote:One of our employees ate a raw kidney and a raw liver and the only powers he gained was the ability to summon a massive hospital bill.
Premislyd wrote:This is probably the best thing somebody has ever spammed.
Puzikas wrote:That joke was so dark it has to smile to be seen at night.
by Asgeirria » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:56 pm
Crookfur wrote:Asgeirria wrote:Legion - Three battalions commanded by a Praefefor advised by a Grand Optio. 576 AIFVs, 72 GNGPs, 48 Cargos, 48 Ambulances, 48 Leopard 2A7 MBTs, six CPs, three BCPs, and a Boxer LCP.
Battalion - Two companies commanded by a Colonel, staffed by a Diogene (or onslaught augar), Cornitian, and two subcommanders. IFV complement of 192 AIFVs, 48 GNGPs, 16 Cargos, 16 Ambulances, 16 Leopard 2A7 MBTs, two Boxer CPs, a Boxer OWCP.
Company - Eight platoons commanded by a Centurion (captain) assisted by an Optio (Staff Sergeant in auxiliary units, master sergeant or commissioned Warrant Officer equivalent in assault units), 96 AIFVs, 24 GNGPs, 8 Boxer Cargos, 8 Boxer Ambulances 8 Leopard 2A7 MBTs, supplemented by a Boxer CP.
Platoon - Four squads commanded by a Tesserarius (1st lieutenant), 12 AIFVs and 3 Boxer GNGPs supplemented by a Boxer Cargo, a Boxer Ambulance, and a Leopard 2A7 MBT.
Squad - Three teams led by a Decurio (2nd lieutenant), rallying to a signifer (or onslaught lead, in assault squads) with the three squad AIFVs supplemented by a Boxer GNGP.
Team - A five man team (three riflemen (MDR-c Bullpup SMG), a specialist [sniper (bullpup m14 to keep barrel length but increase indoor or close quarters effectiveness), commando (UTAS-15 shotgun or PS90 carbine), or demolitions(PS90 carbinem, MBT LAW, and/or c4 or other explosives)], and SAW trooper(Pecheng PKP) led by a Decanus (sergeant or corporal, PS90 carbine), with a Boxer AIFV.
How effective/ineffective would this be in forest/mountain/urban warfare?
Assuming:
>Sufficient budget
>Two years of training, three-phase STANDARD
>Powered leg/back support STANDARD
>Light armor STANDARD: The Stag armor system weighs 110 pounds, and the plates provide immunity to smalls arms fire lower than 7.62, and up to 12 7.62 strikes on each plate. It protects against shrapnel and grenades blasts at a distance of 8 feet, and lowers fatalities by 70% at 5 feet, and ~25% at <4 feet.
>Heavy armor (NCOs, specialists): The Boar armor system weighs 410 pounds, which provides full-body protection from 7.62 ammunition and smaller. Many of the main plates can withstand 3-4 direct hits from .50 rounds, while the internal padding, shock absorbers, and heat sinks can protect the wearer from grenade explosions within 2-3 feet. Fatalies from mortar strikes within 10 feet are reduced from 60% to less than 2%. Fatalities from artillery strikes of 200mm at less than 15 feet are reduced from 85% to ~5%. Fatalities from direct hits from 20-35mm shells are reduced from 99% to 30%.
>Proper air support
>The technology and resources necessary for above assumptions is available
>WWII Wermacht command system, allowing for unit command autonomy, e.g. 2nd lt. can decide how he wants to accomplish tasks given.
>High morale
>Reasonably high quality officers
So, assuming optimal domestic conditions. Stuff like effectiveness when cut off from supply lines, assymetrical (in both directions) warfare, etc is open season. Thoughts on actual combat effectiveness, what could be improved, etc?
leaving out the silly armour issues the general feel of what you have posted is bloated and unweildy with portions of video game style class specialisations and not actually taking care about what your choosing on the side.
Platoons don't need anything other than thier IFVs. Companies don't need extra vehciles other than an ambulance, a "cargo" APC, a couple of run about jeepalikes and maybe a 3 vehicle repair/fitter section (which i think is what you are trying to go for with the boxer GNGP, you really want the BDR).
A junior inf. officer does not need his own MBT. If you are going to include MBTs in an infantry regiment/brigade put them in thier own battalion or at least thier own companys at battalion level.
Numbers of sub units seem not too bad until suddenly the Company commander has 8 Fecking Lftn.s to look after (with no XO aparrently). Why on earth do you have 8 platoons in a company? I assume its some roman flavour thing.
Despite the aparent bloat the battalion is totally missing any form of support weapons capability. Where is the support company with its MGs, Mortars, ATGMs, snipers, recce and assault pioneer assets?
As to small arms the MDR-C is OK as long as you stick to the 16" barrel.
Bullpup M14s suck the biggest boabies in the world so why bother when stuff like the RFB exists? Alternatively any one of the precision ARalikes out here will happily do te same job without being that encumbering in CQB. No such thing as a squad level demo guy, you will have a rocket launcher for of the riflemen but thats about it.
Just make the "commando" a regular rifleman and issue a shotgun for one of them to carry slung and use when required.
Why does the machine gunner have a weapon totally incompatible with the logistics of the rest of the squad? For the PKP to make sense you have either rechambered them to 7.62mm NATO or rechambered your teams' precision rifles and the MGs on all your vehicles to 7.62x54mmR.
The PS90 is a silly comercial civilian toy, either use proper P90s or better yet MDR-Cs as it is hardly over encumbering.
by Rhodesialund » Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:46 pm
by Schwere Panzer Abteilung 502 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:47 pm
Asgeirria wrote:Schwere Panzer Abteilung 502 wrote:Generally speaking, exoskeletons are automatically unrealistic unless in PMT or beyond. The best thing you can get is a Raytheon XOS 2 leg set and, of course, battery power would make it extremely limited in range.
Christ on a hockey stick, did you even read what I wrote or did you go full tunnelvision on "exoskeleton"?
>Light armor STANDARD: The Stag armor system weighs 110 pounds, and the plates provide immunity to smalls arms fire lower than 7.62, and up to 12 7.62 strikes on each plate. It protects against shrapnel and grenades blasts at a distance of 8 feet, and lowers fatalities by 70% at 5 feet, and ~25% at <4 feet.
>Heavy armor (NCOs, specialists): The Boar armor system weighs 410 pounds, which provides full-body protection from 7.62 ammunition and smaller. Many of the main plates can withstand 3-4 direct hits from .50 rounds, while the internal padding, shock absorbers, and heat sinks can protect the wearer from grenade explosions within 2-3 feet. Fatalities from mortar strikes within 10 feet are reduced from 60% to less than 2%. Fatalities from artillery strikes of 200mm at less than 15 feet are reduced from 85% to ~5%. Fatalities from direct hits from 20-35mm shells are reduced from 99% to 30%.
>WWII Wermacht command system, allowing for unit command autonomy, e.g. 2nd lt. can decide how he wants to accomplish tasks given.
by Allanea » Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:50 pm
by Rhodesialund » Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:52 pm
Asgeirria wrote:
This is exactly what I was looking for.
Okay, addressing the unwieldy company level, the high ratio of PL to CO is sort of supposed to be working on lower-level command autonomy. CO tells PL what needs to go accomplished, PL decides the best way to go about that. Should the autonomy of command begin farther up or farther down?
As far as the PKP, since we're not factoring the cost for rechambering, I was just looking at performance (power, accuracy, etc)
As far as specialization, the commando probably could use a P90 instead of shotgun. On further research, the UTAS is unreliable. I'm not too familiar on the RFB, but from my experience it doesn"'t have automatic? But I hear good things about reliability and accuracy. Weight isn't really an issue. Is there a better option performance-wise than the MDR-C?
by United Daene Peoples » Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:59 pm
by Schwere Panzer Abteilung 502 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:00 pm
Fordorsia wrote:Crookfur wrote:
Uncapped APCR/HVAP ammo did exist but it was found that a ballistic tip helped the penetrator dig in and made it much less likely to shatter. The ballistic cap also allowed a more aerodynamic projectile.
Were there any advantages to it?
Well this is the beefed up longer version of the M25 Heavy Rifle that would be using this fancy new bullet. I supposed it could be quite the ambush weapon, depending on how effective the bullet turns out to be.
by Fordorsia » Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:06 pm
Schwere Panzer Abteilung 502 wrote:
You're going to have to get pretty close to kill a lot of tanks in early WWII. Some are easy pickings, but a T-34 lookalike is not going to be fun for the gun crew(or the T-34 crew, but they never have fun).
I'd say go squeezebore, even though you can only fire special APCR ammo. They limit the gun in effectiveness, but depending on how you issue them, have one gun per four(for example) be squeezebore and train that crew to be more effective in tank killing(e.g. train them to know weak spots in common enemy tanks, which was done in some times and places in WWII). The rest can be normal crews firing HE/AP combinations. Or whatever.
San-Silvacian wrote:Forgot to take off my Rhodie shorts when I went to sleep.
Woke up in bitches and enemy combatants.
Crookfur wrote:Speak for yourself, Crookfur infantry enjoy the sheer uber high speed low drag operator nature of their tactical woad
Spreewerke wrote:One of our employees ate a raw kidney and a raw liver and the only powers he gained was the ability to summon a massive hospital bill.
Premislyd wrote:This is probably the best thing somebody has ever spammed.
Puzikas wrote:That joke was so dark it has to smile to be seen at night.
by Asgeirria » Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:22 pm
Asgeirria wrote:>The technology and resources necessary for above assumptions is available
by Korva » Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:31 pm
by Triplebaconation » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:13 pm
Schwere Panzer Abteilung 502 wrote:This is where it gets silly. 410 pounds?? Protection against HMG rounds? Let me fill you in on an automotive secret:
A large car battery will weigh on the order of 30-35lbs. Try lifting one; they're heavy. And they run out of juice fast. The reason car batteries last so long is because the car's engine will recharge it as it runs. It can't be recharged forever, of course, but it's not like the two AA batteries in a television remote that last for months on their own.
by Puzikas » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:57 pm
Korva wrote:Q: How effective would this thing be if we assume it would be very effective?
A: Very effective
Sevvania wrote:I don't post much, but I am always here.
Usually waiting for Puz ;-;
by Kassaran » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:35 pm
Korva wrote:Q: How effective would this thing be if we assume it would be very effective?
A: Very effective
Zarkenis Ultima wrote:Tristan noticed footsteps behind him and looked there, only to see Eric approaching and then pointing his sword at the girl. He just blinked a few times at this before speaking.
"Put that down, Mr. Eric." He said. "She's obviously not a chicken."
by Crookfur » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:59 pm
Asgeirria wrote:Crookfur wrote:
leaving out the silly armour issues the general feel of what you have posted is bloated and unweildy with portions of video game style class specialisations and not actually taking care about what your choosing on the side.
Platoons don't need anything other than thier IFVs. Companies don't need extra vehciles other than an ambulance, a "cargo" APC, a couple of run about jeepalikes and maybe a 3 vehicle repair/fitter section (which i think is what you are trying to go for with the boxer GNGP, you really want the BDR).
A junior inf. officer does not need his own MBT. If you are going to include MBTs in an infantry regiment/brigade put them in thier own battalion or at least thier own companys at battalion level.
Numbers of sub units seem not too bad until suddenly the Company commander has 8 Fecking Lftn.s to look after (with no XO aparrently). Why on earth do you have 8 platoons in a company? I assume its some roman flavour thing.
Despite the aparent bloat the battalion is totally missing any form of support weapons capability. Where is the support company with its MGs, Mortars, ATGMs, snipers, recce and assault pioneer assets?
As to small arms the MDR-C is OK as long as you stick to the 16" barrel.
Bullpup M14s suck the biggest boabies in the world so why bother when stuff like the RFB exists? Alternatively any one of the precision ARalikes out here will happily do te same job without being that encumbering in CQB. No such thing as a squad level demo guy, you will have a rocket launcher for of the riflemen but thats about it.
Just make the "commando" a regular rifleman and issue a shotgun for one of them to carry slung and use when required.
Why does the machine gunner have a weapon totally incompatible with the logistics of the rest of the squad? For the PKP to make sense you have either rechambered them to 7.62mm NATO or rechambered your teams' precision rifles and the MGs on all your vehicles to 7.62x54mmR.
The PS90 is a silly comercial civilian toy, either use proper P90s or better yet MDR-Cs as it is hardly over encumbering.
This is exactly what I was looking for.
Okay, addressing the unwieldy company level, the high ratio of PL to CO is sort of supposed to be working on lower-level command autonomy. CO tells PL what needs to go accomplished, PL decides the best way to go about that. Should the autonomy of command begin farther up or farther down?
As far as the PKP, since we're not factoring the cost for rechambering, I was just looking at performance (power, accuracy, etc)
As far as specialization, the commando probably could use a P90 instead of shotgun. On further research, the UTAS is unreliable. I'm not too familiar on the RFB, but from my experience it doesn"'t have automatic? But I hear good things about reliability and accuracy. Weight isn't really an issue. Is there a better option performance-wise than the MDR-C?
by Eisarn-Ara » Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:06 am
by Purpelia » Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:30 am
by Asgeirria » Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:23 am
by Fordorsia » Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:31 am
Purpelia wrote:
To be honest I very much doubt this would be an adequate anti tank weapon into WW2. Really I'd say you are looking at performance better than the French 2.5cm but worse, or at least no better than the German funky 2.8cm. It's going to work well until say 41-42 but once heavier stuff starts rolling around not even 5cm was enough.
San-Silvacian wrote:Forgot to take off my Rhodie shorts when I went to sleep.
Woke up in bitches and enemy combatants.
Crookfur wrote:Speak for yourself, Crookfur infantry enjoy the sheer uber high speed low drag operator nature of their tactical woad
Spreewerke wrote:One of our employees ate a raw kidney and a raw liver and the only powers he gained was the ability to summon a massive hospital bill.
Premislyd wrote:This is probably the best thing somebody has ever spammed.
Puzikas wrote:That joke was so dark it has to smile to be seen at night.
by Purpelia » Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:44 am
Fordorsia wrote:Purpelia wrote:To be honest I very much doubt this would be an adequate anti tank weapon into WW2. Really I'd say you are looking at performance better than the French 2.5cm but worse, or at least no better than the German funky 2.8cm. It's going to work well until say 41-42 but once heavier stuff starts rolling around not even 5cm was enough.
The sPzB 41 did use a tungsten core so that would explain the better penetratio, but it's not better by very much. At 100m and 500m my peetration is on the lower and of its estimated penetration, but it's not a huge difference. A better bullet for mine would make a big difference.
by Rodrania » Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:47 am
by Ardavia » Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:09 am
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