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The Ravagery's Civilization Index

A place to put national factbooks, embassy exchanges, and other information regarding the nations of the world. [In character]
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The Great Devourer of All
Minister
 
Posts: 2940
Founded: Dec 26, 2015
Ex-Nation

The Ravagery's Civilization Index

Postby The Great Devourer of All » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:18 am

I bet you were thinking about how there are only four Civilization Indexes floating around F&NI, and how you really wanted another one to come along so you could say the exact same meaningless things in a slightly different way, and absolutely no one would read it. Well, you're in luck! Behold, Meaningless Civilization Index Mk. V!

Technological Achievements



Primordial: Primordial Tech, (PriT or NoT) is not truly a technology level, but is really just the absence of anything typically regarded as technology. Beings at this stage are usually non-sapient or have just gained sapience.
Prehistoric: Prehistoric Tech, or PreT, is the earliest stage of technology and the least advanced. Good examples are humans before 10,000 B.C.E., the apes from the Planet of the Apes reboot series, and the Na'vi from the movie Avatar.
Ancient: Ancient Tech (AT) is basically just a slightly more advanced form of PreT. Civs at this scale have discovered advanced architecture, pottery, and metalworking.
Pre-Industrial: Pre-Industrial Tech (PIT) is a tech level that can be found in human history between the fall of the Western Roman Empire and the very beginnings of the Industrial Revolution in the 1790's.
Industrial: Industrial Tech (IT) is narrower, but still covers a wide variety of civilizations. This stage started on Earth in 1790, and came to a close in 1945. Advanced tool production, efficient material use, and advanced energy sources are created at this stage.
Atomic: Lasting from 1945 to 2000 on Earth, Atomic Tech (AtT) is where civilizations start to get advanced enough to be considered Modern Tech on the older scales. Nuclear energy is the focus of this era. If a civilization stops advancing at this stage, you'll end up getting something like Prewar Fallout. Typically, advanced space programs appear here, and the species takes its first tiny steps into the interplanetary void.
Digital: This is where it gets interesting. Civilizations classed as Digital Tech (DT) are rapidly advancing, particularly in the fields of electronics and global connectivity. This not only causes technological changes, but often greatly changes social life within a DT civilization.
Near Future: Civilizations here typically advance at an exponential rate, but for the relatively short time they spend at this stage, things can get bizarre. NFT (Near Future Tech) is where the genre of Cyberpunk would fall, and is the equivalent of PMT on the older scales. Artificial Intelligence, advanced spacefaring, near-infinite data processing, and advanced kinetic weaponry may all become realities during this period.
Intermediate Future: IFT (Intermediate Future Tech) is what people commonly think of when they hear the word 'future'. FTL, hyperadvanced robotics, and rapidly advancing energy collection means are found here. Examples of this include most civilizations from Star Trek, Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, and many other staples of classic science fiction.
Far Future: FFT, or Far Future Tech, is exactly the same as FFT on the older scales. It's basically FT on steroids, and usually has more to do with scope than with technology, but some trademark technologies include advanced teleportation, AI units achieving hypersapience, and more and more effective FTL, weapons, and shielding.
Distant Future: DFT, or Distant Future Tech, is, again, a beefed-up form of its predecessor. AI, shields, weapons, FTL, virtual reality, augmented reality, and just about everything else gets much more advanced. Many civilizations at this stage have abandoned their biological components and/or are completely immersed in virtual reality.
Unforeseeable Future: This is just a better way of saying 'hyper ultra mega super future tech'. UFT is where civilizations start to become godlike. Means of traveling between universes are created here, and bending the laws of physics is possible. Civilizations here are incomprehensible to any civilization below IFT.
Indescribable: Here, you start to see a transition from technology that can be reasonably explained with theoretical physics to stuff that is seen as pure magic to any civilization below FFT. IndT is the stage at which Eldritch Abominations start to become a thing. Highly efficient multiversal travel is possible at this stage.
Unthinkable: Lovecraftian Dieties, the Holy Trinity, and similar omnipotent and near-omnipotent beings populate civilizations here. UT is really the limit for serious roleplaying.
Infinite: InfT is where Eldritch Horrors from IndT appear to be microbial organisms with no influence at all. Nothing happens anywhere in the entirety of the Omniverse without an InfT being knowing of it and another one causing it to happen in the first place.


Influence



Tribal: A civilization here controls no more than a thousand sapients, and competes with similar tribes and clans. Most civilizations here are between PreT and PIT, but modern-day gangs are often at this stage.
Minuscule: For this level, think city-states and small kingdoms. Wessex, Sparta, and Vatican City are good examples.
Small: These are the size of typical nations, but only control what is within their borders ,so they have no colonies, are not imperial, and have no major economic influence globally.
Colonial: Nations here control overseas colonies, much like the European Powers of the nineteenth century.
Continental: At this stage, a nation controls most of or all of a continent, just like the Roman Empire, the USSR, and political and economic blocs like the EU and NATO.
Planetary: All of or nearly all of a planet is under control of a civilization like this. This is where we transition into classic sci-fi, especially the kind seen in 50's and 60's classics like Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon.
Interplanetary: Interplanetary civilizations control their home planet and the surrounding heavenly bodies, such as moons, planets, and asteroid belts and fields. I personally think the title of 'interplanetary' is rather badass. These nations may control up to an entire star system.
Interstellar: This is where we get into the realm of common futuristic fiction, like Star Trek. These civs control multiple star systems, meaning they can control anything from two systems to most of a galaxy. This stage probably makes up something like 90% of the population of what's considered 'mainstream' FT on nationstates.
Galactic: Controlling most of or all of a single galaxy, these civs are typically isolated and focused on keeping order within their borders. They may start to venture out into intergalactic space, but, for the most part, nations at this stage take a while to build infrastructure. The Republic and empire from Star Wars are the most widely known examples of this.
Intergalactic: Auricium is a good example on NS, but I can't find any major pop culture examples. Basically, this is the equivalent of the 'Colonial' stage from earlier, but on a much, much larger scale. These nations are typically expansionist and tend to be either militaristic or hive minds. These are the first nations that start to actually be threats to the Ravagery, but they aren't too dangerous.
Universal: Nations here control a single universe, and may have colonies in other universes. That's all I can say, other than that they're too massive to truly comprehend.
Multiversal: This is the stage we're at. Any finite civilization that controls multiple universes lies here, and all of them are truly gargantuan.
Omniversal: To be here, a nation must be truly infinite in every, controlling every single universe, multiverse, megaverse, metaverse, pocket universe, continuum, universal membrane, and dimension that ever has existed, currently exists, or ever could exist. By definition, these nations always have existed and will exist forever, since they must completely control every temporal and physical dimension.





Code: Select all
[box]Nation name:
Technological Achievement level:
Influence Level:
Extra notes:[/box]
Last edited by The Great Devourer of All on Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Last edited by the Devourer 9.98 billion years ago


Pro: Jellyfish

Anti: Heretics



Yymea wrote:We would definitely be scared of what is probably the most scary nation on NS :p


Multiversal Venn-Copard wrote:Actually fairly threatening by our standards. And this time we really mean "threatening". As in, "we'll actually need to escalate significantly to match their fleets."


Valkalan wrote:10/10 Profoundly evil. Some nations conqueror others for wealth and prestige, but the Devourer consumes civilization like a cancer consuming an unfortunate host.


The Speaker wrote:Intemperate in the sea from the roof, and leg All night, and he knows lots of reads from the unseen good old man of the mountain-DESTRUCTION

User avatar
The Great Devourer of All
Minister
 
Posts: 2940
Founded: Dec 26, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby The Great Devourer of All » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:21 am

Nation name: The Devourer's Ravagery
Technological Achievement level: Somewhere between IndT and UT
Influence Level: Multiversal
Extra notes: We use fleets of gigantic universe-eating jellyfish, and we're literally allied with Satan. 'Nuff said.
Last edited by the Devourer 9.98 billion years ago


Pro: Jellyfish

Anti: Heretics



Yymea wrote:We would definitely be scared of what is probably the most scary nation on NS :p


Multiversal Venn-Copard wrote:Actually fairly threatening by our standards. And this time we really mean "threatening". As in, "we'll actually need to escalate significantly to match their fleets."


Valkalan wrote:10/10 Profoundly evil. Some nations conqueror others for wealth and prestige, but the Devourer consumes civilization like a cancer consuming an unfortunate host.


The Speaker wrote:Intemperate in the sea from the roof, and leg All night, and he knows lots of reads from the unseen good old man of the mountain-DESTRUCTION

User avatar
Multiversal Venn-Copard
Diplomat
 
Posts: 842
Founded: Nov 03, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Multiversal Venn-Copard » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:25 am

Meh, might as well. This thankfully doesn't reveal as much info about a nation's size as the VCMR class system (which I actually use both IC and OOC), so maybe it's safer for roleplaying.

Nation name: The Venn-Copard Multiversal Republic (VCMR)
Technological Achievement level: Unforseeable Future / Indescribable
Influence Level: Multiversal
Extra notes: Our citizens aren't gods, computers, or even trans-sapients, but having access to weaponized fractals, FTL buzzsaws, kiloparsec-long tendrils of metal armed with octillions of galaxy-shattering mass drivers, and no fewer than three types of universe-destroying weapons puts us pretty high up.
"I guess everything really does happen at once sometimes."

The VCMR is likely far less interested in interfering with those below than it used to be.

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Thinking Machines
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 46
Founded: Nov 26, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Thinking Machines » Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:02 pm

Nation name: The Community of Thinking Machines
Technological Achievement level: Closer to Unthinkable than Indescribable
Influence Level: Universal
Extra notes: Could be Multiversal, but never bothered to expand

User avatar
Kauthar
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1535
Founded: Oct 21, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Kauthar » Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:07 pm

Nation name:
Technological Achievement level: Digital
Influence Level: Small
Extra notes: Kauthar makes up just three islands, but is very powerful economically
Pronouns: Deus/Vult
☩Fight Islam, Fight Degeneracy, and Defend Europa, the Fatherland☩
SMASH CULTURAL MARXISM, KEEP EUROPE EUROPEAN
Resources on Islam
I am a Clerical Fascist and European Nationalist
Trump and Palin 2016!
Favourite Politicians: Wilders, Sturgeon, Mussolini, Putin, Franco, Orban
Pro: Fascism, Nationalism, Ethnic Pride, Traditionalism, Distributism, Third Positionism, Militarism, Dominionism, Scotland, White Nationalism, Conservatism, Bionationalism
Anti: Capitalism, Socialists, Communism, Cultural Marxism, Feminism, Islam, Zionism, Islamization of Europa, Progressivism, Unionism, Tories, Labour, the EUSSR, Skinheads, Pan-Africanism
The Blaatschapen wrote:We're not marxists.

We're maxists.

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Beaverriver
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 387
Founded: Feb 05, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Beaverriver » Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:17 pm

Nation name: Beaverriver
Technological Achievement level: Near Future
Influence Level: Small
Extra notes:
The Earth's Republic of Beaver River
An Esportivan Nation

User avatar
Pavonistade
Minister
 
Posts: 2787
Founded: Jan 26, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Pavonistade » Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:39 pm

Nation name: Pavonistade
Technological Achievement level: Digital
Influence Level: Continental (part of certain international blocs)
Extra notes: N/A
Political Compass:
Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.97
President: Calvin Elmore
Vice President: Otakta Sgriki
IIwiki | Glossary | I don't use NS stats
[NEWS] Pavonistadian researchers make breakthrough in Terahertz wave generation and modulation | Selective screening protocols in place amid coronavirus concerns | "The USA is the greatest threat to Pavonistadian security," states interior minister

User avatar
Trancendental Darkness
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: Feb 21, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Trancendental Darkness » Sun Feb 21, 2016 1:19 pm

Nation name: The Transcended Darkness
Technological Achievement level: Indescribable
Influence Level: Intergalactic
Extra notes: We don't live in a universe, but rather in the space between universes

User avatar
Irona
Minister
 
Posts: 2393
Founded: Dec 27, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Irona » Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:55 pm

Nation name: Irona
Technological Achievement level: Digital
Influence Level: Continental
Extra notes:

User avatar
Newne Carriebean7
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6674
Founded: Aug 08, 2015
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Newne Carriebean7 » Sun Feb 21, 2016 5:46 pm

Nation name: Newne Carriebean
Technological Achievement level: Digital
Influence Level: Continental
Extra notes: we control from the amazon river in the south to the Rio de jenaro boarder with the united states, we also control some colonies in Africa, though we released most in the 2000's.
Krugeristan wrote:This is Carrie you're referring to. I'm not going to expect him to do something sane anytime soon. He can take something as simple as a sandwich, and make me never look at sandwiches with a straight face ever again.

Former Carriebeanian president Carol Dartenby sentenced to 4 years hard labor for corruption and mismanagement of state property|Former Carriebeanian president Antrés Depuís sentenced to 3 years in prison for embezzling funds and corruption

User avatar
The Great Devourer of All
Minister
 
Posts: 2940
Founded: Dec 26, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby The Great Devourer of All » Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:05 pm

Newne Carriebean7 wrote:
Nation name: Newne Carriebean
Technological Achievement level: Digital
Influence Level: Continental
Extra notes: we control from the amazon river in the south to the Rio de jenaro boarder with the united states, we also control some colonies in Africa, though we released most in the 2000's.


You mean Rio Grande? Rio de Janeiro is a city, and it's in Brazil, nowhere near the US.
Last edited by the Devourer 9.98 billion years ago


Pro: Jellyfish

Anti: Heretics



Yymea wrote:We would definitely be scared of what is probably the most scary nation on NS :p


Multiversal Venn-Copard wrote:Actually fairly threatening by our standards. And this time we really mean "threatening". As in, "we'll actually need to escalate significantly to match their fleets."


Valkalan wrote:10/10 Profoundly evil. Some nations conqueror others for wealth and prestige, but the Devourer consumes civilization like a cancer consuming an unfortunate host.


The Speaker wrote:Intemperate in the sea from the roof, and leg All night, and he knows lots of reads from the unseen good old man of the mountain-DESTRUCTION

User avatar
The Gamindustrian Union
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1393
Founded: Jan 29, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby The Gamindustrian Union » Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:57 pm

Nation name: The Gamindustrian Union
Technological Achievement level: Digital-Near Future, midway, leaning towards Near Future
Influence Level: Continental
Extra notes: The Gamindustrian Union consists of 8 nations and 1 nation-turned-special autonomous region. It is also set on modern times, but its technology is PMT.
Last edited by The Gamindustrian Union on Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
THIS NATION USES A FEW NS STATS
This nation is Hyperdimension and Ultradimension in the Neptunia universe, where the nations decided to become a union à la European Union. This is set in MT, although the tech level is early PMT. What would you expect? It's Neptunia.
Do you even Nep, bro?
Embassy Programme (Open)

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Verdiga
Diplomat
 
Posts: 977
Founded: Sep 22, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Verdiga » Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:01 pm

Nation name: Republic of Verdiga
Technological Achievement level: Digital
Influence Level: Small
Extra notes: Verdiga, despite being an average MT nation, is capable of interdimensional travel thanks to certain "geographical anomalies".
Republic of Verdiga
Republiken Verdige
ヴェルディガ共和国
This nation USES NS Stats, EXCEPT ON THE FOLLOWING: population, economy, taxes (but it's close), safety (we're a tad safer), corruption
This nation is Sweden with a sizeable portion of Japan and Monster Girl Encyclopedia, as well as a bit of Touhou.
The United States of America is too mainstream.
Pro: Democracy, Libertarianism, Nordic Model, Sweden, Japan, Israel/Palestinian Harmony (I am a dreamer)
Anti: Communism (not Socialism), Dictatorship, Conservatism, Islamism, Gabenism, American Imperialism, China

User avatar
Fin Dovah Junaar
Diplomat
 
Posts: 642
Founded: Jan 28, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Fin Dovah Junaar » Sun Feb 28, 2016 6:38 pm

Nation name: The Eternal Empire
Technological Achievement level: Pre-Industrial
Influence Level: Small
Extra notes: This is the worst one yet, bravo. 10/10 IGN
Please Refer to my Nation as Anor Ostrum
Factbook: IntroductionKingdomsMapThe Three PillarsPontiff Godwyne the WiseTriviaOOC Notes
The Eternal Kingdom of the Flame
"And so, it is that ash seekth embers, and renew the old accord, for all that has been, shall be once more."

Techs: Medieval (Slightly Mixed) - Dark Fantasy Nation - Ashes

User avatar
The Great Devourer of All
Minister
 
Posts: 2940
Founded: Dec 26, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby The Great Devourer of All » Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:54 pm

Fin Dovah Junaar wrote:
Nation name: The Eternal Empire
Technological Achievement level: Pre-Industrial
Influence Level: Small
Extra notes: This is the worst one yet, bravo. 10/10 IGN

Thanks. Got any suggestions for improvement?
Last edited by the Devourer 9.98 billion years ago


Pro: Jellyfish

Anti: Heretics



Yymea wrote:We would definitely be scared of what is probably the most scary nation on NS :p


Multiversal Venn-Copard wrote:Actually fairly threatening by our standards. And this time we really mean "threatening". As in, "we'll actually need to escalate significantly to match their fleets."


Valkalan wrote:10/10 Profoundly evil. Some nations conqueror others for wealth and prestige, but the Devourer consumes civilization like a cancer consuming an unfortunate host.


The Speaker wrote:Intemperate in the sea from the roof, and leg All night, and he knows lots of reads from the unseen good old man of the mountain-DESTRUCTION

User avatar
Scheggia
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 11
Founded: Feb 29, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Scheggia » Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:07 pm

Nation name: The Confederacy of Scheggia
Technological Achievement level: Pre-Industrial
Influence Level: Colonial
Extra notes: Cuz I have little colonies in the low seas along my trade routes.

User avatar
United Timelines Outpost Number 99999999
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1252
Founded: Sep 21, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby United Timelines Outpost Number 99999999 » Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:08 pm

Nation name: The Trans-Timelinear Landfill of United Timelines Outpost Number 99999999
Technological Achievement level: INFINITE
Influence Level: OMNIVERSAL
Extra notes: THERE S NOTHING LEFT TO HIDE FROM
Nazi Punks Fuck Off

User avatar
Olwe
Senator
 
Posts: 4934
Founded: Jan 22, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby Olwe » Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:55 pm

Nation name: The Magocratic Empire Of Olwe
Technological Achievement level: Indescribable
Influence Level: Multiversal
Extra notes: Olwe was founded by magic users, whose leaders were and continue to be Planeswalkers like the ones in Magic: The Gathering (old school ones, not those pussy Bradywalkers). So basically, a society of mages led by near omnipotent godlike beings, who have adopted only the most advanced available Muggle tech.
Founded: 2480
Current year: 5001
Magic: Non-negotiable
Ponies: Yes, occasionally
Tech levels incompatible? Then kick me out of the thread, because if you RP with me you accept my tech.
Note: Before 2480, Olwe was called Athan. If you see this word in a thread, it's because you mentioned a year incompatible with Olwe in that thread but still made it open to all techs and therefore are allowing Athan's magic.
RP population: 21 billion
Embassy program: https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=203258

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The Celestial Flame
Diplomat
 
Posts: 541
Founded: Oct 10, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby The Celestial Flame » Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:49 pm

Nation name: The Celestial Flame
Technological Achievement level: Infinite
Influence Level: Multiversal
Extra notes: Officially speaking the "Eldritch Horrors" would be considered significantly less than microbial organisms would be to humans. We also disapprove of influence levels are are technically impossible to meet. To anything less than one who is truly omniscient, namely every nation that is currently listed as "multiversal" and also the ones claiming to be "omniversal", we would appear to be all encompassing, per your onmiverse definition, but we are in fact finite. We have reached levels significantly above what humans term a multiverse. For a classical system to know all information about another system it must be larger than that system.
Last edited by The Celestial Flame on Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I made a pseudo bio for those that don't like searching. Now with 300% more data.
factbook
Any and all information provided by our nations NS page about the Empire is likely wrong.
We do not have anything to do with dragons...

User avatar
The Great Devourer of All
Minister
 
Posts: 2940
Founded: Dec 26, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby The Great Devourer of All » Wed Mar 02, 2016 5:46 am

I think both of you (Celetial Flame and United Timeline Outpost) are overestimating yourselves...
Last edited by The Great Devourer of All on Wed Mar 02, 2016 5:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Last edited by the Devourer 9.98 billion years ago


Pro: Jellyfish

Anti: Heretics



Yymea wrote:We would definitely be scared of what is probably the most scary nation on NS :p


Multiversal Venn-Copard wrote:Actually fairly threatening by our standards. And this time we really mean "threatening". As in, "we'll actually need to escalate significantly to match their fleets."


Valkalan wrote:10/10 Profoundly evil. Some nations conqueror others for wealth and prestige, but the Devourer consumes civilization like a cancer consuming an unfortunate host.


The Speaker wrote:Intemperate in the sea from the roof, and leg All night, and he knows lots of reads from the unseen good old man of the mountain-DESTRUCTION

User avatar
The Celestial Flame
Diplomat
 
Posts: 541
Founded: Oct 10, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby The Celestial Flame » Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:25 am

The tech was simply based on the scale you provided with the relation to the Eldritch Deities and Horrors as well as solidly having travel between the various verses. The Eldrich horrors and deities weren't actually all that powerful, even ft nations could probably take them on. To any nation on a multiverse level or higher they really would be insignificant.

It is however obviously impossible for something to know exactly everything about a system it is a part of and literally no amount of technology gain will allow it. In the real world there are very real limits on how much information x amount of particles at y frequency can process, information theory is actually fairly well developed and produces values that are aligned with other methods of information calculation. I am also fairly certian most here also do not understand the consequences of basically rewriting any physical law. Our universe is actually fairly fine tuned where if any of the known constants changing by even tiny amounts all the matter and energy in the universe would be condensed to a "single point" or would be force apart so rapidly that physical matter couldn't even exist. No amount of hand-waving eliminates those things.

Dissonance within scales are not the same as overestimating ones own empire.
Last edited by The Celestial Flame on Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:29 am, edited 3 times in total.
I made a pseudo bio for those that don't like searching. Now with 300% more data.
factbook
Any and all information provided by our nations NS page about the Empire is likely wrong.
We do not have anything to do with dragons...

User avatar
United Timelines Outpost Number 99999999
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1252
Founded: Sep 21, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby United Timelines Outpost Number 99999999 » Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:50 am

The Great Devourer of All wrote:I think both of you (Celetial Flame and United Timeline Outpost) are overestimating yourselves...

THERE IS NOTHING LEFT TO HIDE FROM
Nazi Punks Fuck Off

User avatar
Thinking Machines
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 46
Founded: Nov 26, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Thinking Machines » Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:31 am

The Celestial Flame wrote:The tech was simply based on the scale you provided with the relation to the Eldritch Deities and Horrors as well as solidly having travel between the various verses. The Eldrich horrors and deities weren't actually all that powerful, even ft nations could probably take them on. To any nation on a multiverse level or higher they really would be insignificant.

It is however obviously impossible for something to know exactly everything about a system it is a part of and literally no amount of technology gain will allow it. In the real world there are very real limits on how much information x amount of particles at y frequency can process, information theory is actually fairly well developed and produces values that are aligned with other methods of information calculation. I am also fairly certian most here also do not understand the consequences of basically rewriting any physical law. Our universe is actually fairly fine tuned where if any of the known constants changing by even tiny amounts all the matter and energy in the universe would be condensed to a "single point" or would be force apart so rapidly that physical matter couldn't even exist. No amount of hand-waving eliminates those things.

Dissonance within scales are not the same as overestimating ones own empire.

I believe the second sentence of the infinite description might be the bigger part of what he is referring to.

User avatar
Multiversal Venn-Copard
Diplomat
 
Posts: 842
Founded: Nov 03, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Multiversal Venn-Copard » Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:53 pm

The Celestial Flame wrote:
Nation name: The Celestial Flame
Technological Achievement level: Infinite
Influence Level: Multiversal
Extra notes: Officially speaking the "Eldritch Horrors" would be considered significantly less than microbial organisms would be to humans. We also disapprove of influence levels are are technically impossible to meet. To anything less than one who is truly omniscient, namely every nation that is currently listed as "multiversal" and also the ones claiming to be "omniversal", we would appear to be all encompassing, per your onmiverse definition, but we are in fact finite. We have reached levels significantly above what humans term a multiverse. For a classical system to know all information about another system it must be larger than that system.


You have stated that the Celestial Flame is finite. Since you therefore do not have technological scale or influence at an infinite level, you are not of the "Infinite" technology class. Take a look at the second sentence of said class. The Omniverse is infinite in size, not just the "next level up" from a multiverse.

Also, the VCMR is well aware of structures beyond multiverse clusters (our term for multiverses). We aren't human. As the Celestial Flame is finite, you very likely hold only universes within what we call the R0 metaverse - which is itself infinite but doesn't actually contain everything. Trying to compare a metaverse with whatever the next structure might be (metametaverse -> "meta-2-verse"?) is like comparing the set of natural numbers to the set of real numbers.

The Celestial Flame wrote:The tech was simply based on the scale you provided with the relation to the Eldritch Deities and Horrors as well as solidly having travel between the various verses. The Eldrich horrors and deities weren't actually all that powerful, even ft nations could probably take them on. To any nation on a multiverse level or higher they really would be insignificant.

It is however obviously impossible for something to know exactly everything about a system it is a part of and literally no amount of technology gain will allow it. In the real world there are very real limits on how much information x amount of particles at y frequency can process, information theory is actually fairly well developed and produces values that are aligned with other methods of information calculation. I am also fairly certian most here also do not understand the consequences of basically rewriting any physical law. Our universe is actually fairly fine tuned where if any of the known constants changing by even tiny amounts all the matter and energy in the universe would be condensed to a "single point" or would be force apart so rapidly that physical matter couldn't even exist. No amount of hand-waving eliminates those things.

Dissonance within scales are not the same as overestimating ones own empire.


I don't think Devourer actually mentioned specific "eldritch horrors". Azathoth and Yog-Sothoth, for example, exist outside the multiverse (which "level" of multiverse? not sure) and would therefore be completely incomprehensible in scale to almost all FT and FFT nations.

Human understanding of information theory is based on the speed of light c and the fact that we only have one universe to perform calculations in. Neither of these are handicaps to an extreme-far-future civilization. As every universe (note how I didn't say "every possible universe" - you seem to be holding onto logic rather tightly here, but I'm afraid that doesn't really apply anymore) can be found somewhere within the Omniverse, this naturally includes universes with an infinite theoretical information density. (The Ravagery's Eldritch Brain, I believe, is an example of that.) As for reality-warping, keep in mind that the universe would only collapse into a point or be torn apart if the rest of physics kept cooperating. But what makes physical laws interact like that? Wouldn't this imply some sort of "megaphysics" that describes the interactions - and therefore a possible means of adjusting megaphysics so individual laws can be changed without immensely destructive effects?

I can redefine what FFT civilizations actually do at the multiversal scale as much as you like, but you're going to have to accept that at some point we'll need to start handwaving.

And if you want an unambiguous scale that accommodates for civilizations of every possible technology level and scale, write one up.
Last edited by Multiversal Venn-Copard on Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.
"I guess everything really does happen at once sometimes."

The VCMR is likely far less interested in interfering with those below than it used to be.

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The Great Devourer of All
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Posts: 2940
Founded: Dec 26, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby The Great Devourer of All » Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:51 pm

United Timelines Outpost Number 99999999 wrote:
The Great Devourer of All wrote:I think both of you (Celetial Flame and United Timeline Outpost) are overestimating yourselves...

THERE IS NOTHING LEFT TO HIDE FROM


If you are InfT and Omniversal, you would never have entered the OI RP because you would have caused every single event that happened in it, from the planck scale to the multiversal scale, and each of the forces would actually be part of your nation. Omniversal nations can't really exist outside of joke nations, because by their very definition they would implement forced roleplaying as soon as they entered an RP, which, by definition, they couldn't. So, no. You may be infinite in size- controlling some 'lesser infinity' (as Venn-Copard said, logic never applies here)- but no semi-serious nation can control the Omniverse. The only reason I made that option was for closure and for the occasional joke nation that may crawl out from under the LoM from time to time.
Last edited by the Devourer 9.98 billion years ago


Pro: Jellyfish

Anti: Heretics



Yymea wrote:We would definitely be scared of what is probably the most scary nation on NS :p


Multiversal Venn-Copard wrote:Actually fairly threatening by our standards. And this time we really mean "threatening". As in, "we'll actually need to escalate significantly to match their fleets."


Valkalan wrote:10/10 Profoundly evil. Some nations conqueror others for wealth and prestige, but the Devourer consumes civilization like a cancer consuming an unfortunate host.


The Speaker wrote:Intemperate in the sea from the roof, and leg All night, and he knows lots of reads from the unseen good old man of the mountain-DESTRUCTION

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