NationStates

I have a suggestion: Could you, instead of having a linear technology scale, have multiple scales for different technology fields (such as space travel, biotechnology, computing etc.) to account for the fact that civilisations will advance differently in different fields? The current tech scale states that if I were to have sapient AI (as my factbooks state) I would need to, basically, have a galactic empire (which, according to my factbooks, I don't). I feel my suggestion will make more sense.

Nation: Kenmoria
Tier: 6
Level: 0
Type: 6
Special notes about your civilisation: We have some people claiming to be level 2 magic but nobody recognises this
Any improvement suggestions for the index?: No

Nation: The Great Fleet of Xeng He
Tier: 9
Level: 2 (Xeng himself is higher)
Type: 7
Special Notes about your civilization: We're literally a mobile fleet of starships, so over time our influence over worlds could be theoretically infinite because we rove from territory to territory. Typically our interactions are with individual worlds though, so I picked 7.
Any Improvement Suggestions for the Index? N/A

Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft wrote:I have a suggestion: Could you, instead of having a linear technology scale, have multiple scales for different technology fields (such as space travel, biotechnology, computing etc.) to account for the fact that civilisations will advance differently in different fields? The current tech scale states that if I were to have sapient AI (as my factbooks state) I would need to, basically, have a galactic empire (which, according to my factbooks, I don't). I feel my suggestion will make more sense.

Those are tech guides, like you might have this tech in this level. It's not a list of necessary tech. Feel like I should point that out.

Nation: The Deep Vault
Tier: 2
Level: 3
Type: 4
Special Notes about your civilization:
Any Improvement Suggestions for the Index?

Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft wrote:I have a suggestion: Could you, instead of having a linear technology scale, have multiple scales for different technology fields (such as space travel, biotechnology, computing etc.) to account for the fact that civilisations will advance differently in different fields? The current tech scale states that if I were to have sapient AI (as my factbooks state) I would need to, basically, have a galactic empire (which, according to my factbooks, I don't). I feel my suggestion will make more sense.

Electromagnetism, black hole science, nuclear technology, that would be really cool.

Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft wrote:I have a suggestion: Could you, instead of having a linear technology scale, have multiple scales for different technology fields (such as space travel, biotechnology, computing etc.) to account for the fact that civilisations will advance differently in different fields? The current tech scale states that if I were to have sapient AI (as my factbooks state) I would need to, basically, have a galactic empire (which, according to my factbooks, I don't). I feel my suggestion will make more sense.

From the OP:

Note that all tech examples are examples, not requirements.

This is why I continually use the words "may" and "might" to describe having certain technologies. They are to give an idea of what a nation at that Tier might typically look like.

Civilization now probably has access to faster-than-light travel. Sentient, but not sapient, artificial intelligences may have been created.

Theoretically, you might have none of the techs listed as examples, if you really felt like your nation was comparable to a nation at that Tier.

As for why I will not adopt a tech scale for multiple tech types... how many "technology fields" are there? 3? 5? 27? Is there even a finite number of fields in technology? What about fields that human kind has not even thought of yet? There's simply no way to make it work.

Excidium Planetis wrote:

Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft wrote:I have a suggestion: Could you, instead of having a linear technology scale, have multiple scales for different technology fields (such as space travel, biotechnology, computing etc.) to account for the fact that civilisations will advance differently in different fields? The current tech scale states that if I were to have sapient AI (as my factbooks state) I would need to, basically, have a galactic empire (which, according to my factbooks, I don't). I feel my suggestion will make more sense.

From the OP:

Note that all tech examples are examples, not requirements.

This is why I continually use the words "may" and "might" to describe having certain technologies. They are to give an idea of what a nation at that Tier might typically look like.

Civilization now probably has access to faster-than-light travel. Sentient, but not sapient, artificial intelligences may have been created.

Theoretically, you might have none of the techs listed as examples, if you really felt like your nation was comparable to a nation at that Tier.

As for why I will not adopt a tech scale for multiple tech types... how many "technology fields" are there? 3? 5? 27? Is there even a finite number of fields in technology? What about fields that human kind has not even thought of yet? There's simply no way to make it work.

They just thought that it might open new doors for the expanded specification and classification of civilizations, for me, this is one of the best indexes out there, but maybe there could be an expanded version showing multiple scientific and/or magical scales showing which technology/ability trumps what?

*EDIT
Didn't see the bottom of your post, sorry.
I will try and make such a scale.

Nation: Togeria
Tier: 8
Level: 0
Type: 7
Special Notes about your civilization: Our main race the Togerians are born from the merging of three different races: Kriotes, Humans, and Aeonians. We operate on a hive mind that allows information to be processed by the majority even at a very young age.
Any Improvement Suggestions for the Index? N/A

Legitimate question here--at what point do cybernetic/genetic enhancements become equivalent to magic levels?

New Heliopolis wrote:Legitimate question here--at what point do cybernetic/genetic enhancements become equivalent to magic levels?

The point at which they no longer obey the laws of physics. The Arcane Levels specify non-physical means of altering the world.

The last layer of the civilisation influence is absolutely stupid. Not having the technology to transverse the multiverse automatically means that you rank lower in influence which is stupid. I'm glad modern day Earth's superpower is less influential than a middle power in 100,000 years from now. For the technoilogy they had, Ancient Greece was more influential than Indonesia is today, but under your influence rating, Indonesia would out-rank Ancient Greece. Please re-evaluate this and make the third rating be based on one's technology level, not overall. Nicely done, otherwise

Nation: Australian Republic
Tier: 6
Level: 0
Type: 5
Special Notes about your civilization: Modern Tech middle power. There's gotta be a better of phrasing this
Any Improvement Suggestions for the Index? Besides me rant in the previous post, it's okay, with Tier, just beccause the technology exists, it doesn't mean that @@NAME@@ has access to it. For example in real life, Australia has most technology avaliable in other countries, labelling it as Tier 6, but we have no spae program. We are not any less technologically advanced then the USA, in fact, we were a key player in the moon landing. Modern toilets exist in Modern Day India, and modern day India exists sumultaneously with Modern day Australia, and has the same level of technology as modern day India. And i'm not even getting into uncontacted tribes. Going back to the toilet example, of coarse India (as a whole) knows that they exist, and of coarse India (as a whole) has the technology to install them, but according to this index, India is unaware of such technology, because it's poor. Also, there are Indians out there who do have toilets- lots of them

Also, there is too big a jump between rankings, for example, the influence ranking jumps strait from minor-power (Earth), to superpower (Earth). What about everything in between? You virtually jump from the influence level of Fiji strait to the influence level of the USA, do you see why you need smaller gaps? And this doesn't apply to the influence rankings either, it's just more prominate with those. As far as humanity knows (and I am NOT starting a discussion about the statistical/mathematically odds of an intelligent species outside of the universe, NOR am I starting a discussion about alien conspiracy theories) and therefore the influence rating being altered is very important, and if advanced aliens do exist, then the review of the influence rating is even MORE important, as it shows that you can be EXTREMELY influencial without being aware of the existance of other species. You already rate nations on their ability to travel the multiverse, (assuming it exists to begin with), you don't need to make contries appear to be less influential because they can't access it

Come to think about it, a wealth/poverty matrix wouldn't be bad, which after a certain point can split into socialism, capitalism
For example,
Rank 5 a (socialism), every citizen has a basic income, and has access to all neceities, with a couple of luxeries
Rank 6 a (socialism), every citizen has a basic income, and has access to all neceities, with a moderate number of luceries
Rank 5 b (capitalism), the average income includes basic income, and has access to all neceities, and there are millionares
Rank 6 b (capitalism), the average income includes basic income, and has access to all neceties. Most people can afford luxeries, and there are billionares. Homelessness is a minor problem,
But of coarse, natural inflation levels could eventually mean that billionares may only be able to afford a few sticks of gum, and there would have to be a third catagory
Rank 6 c (capitalism), the average income includes basic income, and has access to all neceties. Most people can afford luxeries, and billionares would exist, if the population were physically capable of handling them. Homelessness is a minor problem
Then you have cyber trading, which would probably mean that people could have vast amounts more money than their population would allow them to.
In my opinion, an economic matrix needs to exist in some form or another, but am I overthinking my version of it?

You did a very, very good job otherwise

Australian Republic wrote:The last layer of the civilisation influence is absolutely stupid. Not having the technology to transverse the multiverse automatically means that you rank lower in influence which is stupid.

Stupid? Hey now. Firstly, your nation does not need to traverse the multiverse... only influence it. If your nation can somehow influence nations without traveling to them, sure, mark yourself as higher up on the Type scale.

Secondly, it is obvious that if your nation does not influence other nations, it is not influential. It's self-evident: your nation is not influencial if it does not influence other nations. Given that many NS nations do not exist in your nation's universe, if your nation does not extend influence outside of its universe, it does not influence many NS nations, I'm sorry.

I'm glad modern day Earth's superpower is less influential than a middle power in 100,000 years from now. For the technoilogy they had, Ancient Greece was more influential than Indonesia is today, but under your influence rating, Indonesia would out-rank Ancient Greece.

Firstly, this is NS, where nations most certainly do not all exist on Earth. Ancient Greece in NS is not influential at all.

Secondly, even in the real world, Indonesia is absolutely 100% more influential today than Ancient Greece ever was. Ancient Greece impacted very few civilizations in its time. The vast majority of the world at that time had never even heard of Greece (think about the nations in Asia, in the Americas, in Africa, on the Pacific islands, etc.). Contrast that to modern day Indonesia: every nation in the world has heard of it, and probably most of them at least trade with Indonesia or have Indonesian immigrants. Modern Indonesia has influence on the world on a scale Ancient Greek city-states never had in their time (their legacy is influential, however).

Australian Republic wrote:Any Improvement Suggestions for the Index? Besides me rant in the previous post, it's okay, with Tier, just beccause the technology exists, it doesn't mean that @@NAME@@ has access to it. For example in real life, Australia has most technology avaliable in other countries, labelling it as Tier 6, but we have no spae program. We are not any less technologically advanced then the USA, in fact, we were a key player in the moon landing. Modern toilets exist in Modern Day India, and modern day India exists sumultaneously with Modern day Australia, and has the same level of technology as modern day India. And i'm not even getting into uncontacted tribes. Going back to the toilet example, of coarse India (as a whole) knows that they exist, and of coarse India (as a whole) has the technology to install them, but according to this index, India is unaware of such technology, because it's poor. Also, there are Indians out there who do have toilets- lots of them

Please point to the part of the index that says nations must have toilets to be a certain Tier. Or insert any technology in place of toilets. Like I explained just a few posts before yours, the technologies are examples. Nations do not need to have any example technologies to be a Tier X, they just have to be, in your opinion, a nation with a Tier X level of technology.

Also, there is too big a jump between rankings, for example, the influence ranking jumps strait from minor-power (Earth), to superpower (Earth). What about everything in between? You virtually jump from the influence level of Fiji strait to the influence level of the USA, do you see why you need smaller gaps?

No.

As far as humanity knows (and I am NOT starting a discussion about the statistical/mathematically odds of an intelligent species outside of the universe, NOR am I starting a discussion about alien conspiracy theories) and therefore the influence rating being altered is very important, and if advanced aliens do exist, then the review of the influence rating is even MORE important, as it shows that you can be EXTREMELY influencial without being aware of the existance of other species. You already rate nations on their ability to travel the multiverse, (assuming it exists to begin with), you don't need to make contries appear to be less influential because they can't access it

Again, this is NationStates. It is a given that alien civilizations exist. It is a given that the NS multiverse exists. And once again, nations, by definition, need to influence other nations (including those in other universes) to be considered influential. If a nation on NS only ever influences its own universe, how can it be considered more influential than nations which impact many nations across the NS multiverse?

In my opinion, an economic matrix needs to exist in some form or another, but am I overthinking my version of it?

I have considered adding an economic matrix, however, I ran into problems with how to measure economic might across nations. GDP does not work because not all currencies are comparable, some nations have no currency, and not all currencies have equal buying power. The best a friend could suggest is comparing energy production and consumption (presumably all nations produce and consume energy in some way, and this can be used to measure economic activity), but I have not yet found a way for players to easily calculate this for their own nations.

You did a very, very good job otherwise

Thank you.

Nation: Royal Palmyrian Commonwealth
Tier: 6
Level: 0
Type: 5
Special Notes about your civilization:
Any Improvement Suggestions for the Index?

A 16 civilization, according to this index.

Nation: Dominion of New Felzion
Tier: 6
Level: 6
Type: 5
Special Notes about your civilization: We have technologies that would belong in the categories of FT and PMT.
Any Improvement Suggestions for the Index? No.

Nation United States of Europe Nationalities
Tier 5,4
Level 0
Type 5,2
Special Notes about your civilization In fact, its about 50 diferent civilizations from Europe those decide to unite
Any Improvement Suggestions for the Index

Nation: Ancient Lepala
Tier: 3
Level: 0
Type: 5
Special Notes about your civilization: We'really an ancient version of my main NS.
Any Improvement Suggestions for the Index? Nah, it's good.

Nation: The Interstellar Confederal Republic of Ayyliens
Tier: 9
Level: 0
Type: 8
Special Notes about your civilization: We were in a cold war with the Reptilian Hegemony over multiple star systems and planets, including Earth. Eventually, the R.H. collapsed and the Ayyliens won the cold war. The humans on Earth were completely unaware of the I.C.R.A. but the elite on Earth (The Central Bankers, the corporate elite, the monarchs etc.) are actually under Ayylien influence since the late medieval era in Europe.
Any Improvement Suggestions for the Index? None.

Nation:
Tier:2
Level:2
Type:4
Special Notes about your civilization:In our timeline Queen Boudicca pushed the Romans out of Britain.
Any Improvement Suggestions for the Index?

Nation: Metalvie
Tier: 8
Level: 2
Type: 6
Special Notes about your civilization: Our civilization is built specifically for defense as we have been under invasion by the rest of the world for centuries (and some alien groups resulting in that Type 6 and Tier 8 Rating).

Nation: Rushyopia
Tier: 4
Level: 8
Type: 5
Special Notes about your civilization: After A nuclear power plant explosion
Some people in the affected area developed Magical powers.
Any Improvement Suggestions for the Index?

Nation: New Polypontia
Tier: 4
Level: 4
Type: 4
Special Notes about your civilization:
Any Improvement Suggestions for the Index?

Nation: Fauxia
Tier: 6
Level: 0
Type: 5
Special Notes about your civilization:
Any Improvement Suggestions for the Index?

Nation:
Aviala
Tier:
1
Level:
4
Type:
5
Special Notes about your civilization:
Since the hakunes developed magical abilities, they had less need for technology. Therefore they remained in Past Tech despite being very intelligent. They still live with the Earth and among nature, and they would probably look at humans and their destruction of their habitat as barbaric.
Any Improvement Suggestions for the Index?