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Military Ground Vehicles of Your Nation [NO FUN] Mark IX

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Ardoki
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14496
Founded: Sep 14, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Ardoki » Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:01 pm

The Akasha Colony wrote:
Ardoki wrote:There would be less tank destroyers in the mechanised brigade than there would be tanks in an armoured brigade. The tank destroyers were to supplement the APCs in case of danger. The armoured brigades would be for breakthroughs, so would be more powerful.

But would you suggest relying on IFVs? How much more expensive are they when compared to APCs generally?


Yes, because otherwise your mechanized brigades will be very short on actual firepower. They have no tanks and a smaller number of "tank destroyers," and their APCs will have less armor and firepower than an IFV.

The difference in cost between a modern APC and modern IFV is not so large as to preclude the latter from replacing the former in practically all combat roles except where strategic mobility is a factor. Which is why I asked what the role of the brigade was. If strategic mobility were a priority, like it is with the US Army's Stryker brigades, you might have a reason to use such vehicles. But if it's designed for any sort of direct combat, the cost of IFVs for your entire mechanized force will be small compared to the improvement in effectiveness and survivability.

Okay, thank you. We should be able to afford to replace APCs with IFVs.

Our land area is only about 2 million square kilometres, and we have high levels of infrastructure. So the vast majority of the military would not need to be redeployed in very short periods of time.

However I'm thinking of creating airborne brigades, able to be quickly redeployed throughout the region (not the NS region, the region of the world I'm in ;)) in case of local emergencies (such as civil wars, enemy invasions, other disasters, etcetera). Would IFVs be too heavy for that requirement?
Greater Ardokian Empire | It is Ardoki's destiny to rule the whole world!
Unitary Parliamentary Constitutional Republic

Head of State: Grand Emperor Alistair Killian Moriarty
Head of Government: Grand Imperial Chancellor Kennedy Rowan Coleman
Legislature: Imperial Senate
Ruling Party: Imperial Progressive Party
Technology Level: MT (Primary) | PMT, FanT (Secondary)
Politics: Social Democrat
Religion: None
Personality Type: ENTP 3w4

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Theodosiya
Minister
 
Posts: 3145
Founded: Oct 10, 2015
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Postby Theodosiya » Sat Nov 28, 2015 4:58 am

Ardoki wrote:
The Akasha Colony wrote:
Yes, because otherwise your mechanized brigades will be very short on actual firepower. They have no tanks and a smaller number of "tank destroyers," and their APCs will have less armor and firepower than an IFV.

The difference in cost between a modern APC and modern IFV is not so large as to preclude the latter from replacing the former in practically all combat roles except where strategic mobility is a factor. Which is why I asked what the role of the brigade was. If strategic mobility were a priority, like it is with the US Army's Stryker brigades, you might have a reason to use such vehicles. But if it's designed for any sort of direct combat, the cost of IFVs for your entire mechanized force will be small compared to the improvement in effectiveness and survivability.

Okay, thank you. We should be able to afford to replace APCs with IFVs.

Our land area is only about 2 million square kilometres, and we have high levels of infrastructure. So the vast majority of the military would not need to be redeployed in very short periods of time.

However I'm thinking of creating airborne brigades, able to be quickly redeployed throughout the region (not the NS region, the region of the world I'm in ;)) in case of local emergencies (such as civil wars, enemy invasions, other disasters, etcetera). Would IFVs be too heavy for that requirement?
i present you, German and Russian airborne ifv :
Https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiesel_AWC
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMD-4 Ruskie BMD-4, although it's a variant of BMD-3, which lacked the 100mm gun.
Last edited by Theodosiya on Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
The strong rules over the weak
And the weak are ruled by the strong
It is the natural order

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Imperializt Russia
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Founded: Jun 03, 2011
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:02 am

The Wiesel isn't an IFV by any stretch.
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Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Also,
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Allanea
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Posts: 26060
Founded: Antiquity
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Allanea » Sat Nov 28, 2015 6:25 am

You can airdrop a BMP-3M.

In fact, paracchute systems allowing a BMP-3 to be airdropped with crew, like the BMD-4 is, have been tested with success.
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Theodosiya
Minister
 
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Founded: Oct 10, 2015
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Postby Theodosiya » Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:18 am

Imperializt Russia wrote:The Wiesel isn't an IFV by any stretch.

should've written AFV, since Wiesel are 7.62 mm proof
The strong rules over the weak
And the weak are ruled by the strong
It is the natural order

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Imperializt Russia
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Founded: Jun 03, 2011
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:24 am

Weisel is really just the Bren Carrier of today.
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PT puppet of the People's Republic of Samozaryadnyastan.

Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Also,
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.

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Korhalian Dominion
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 184
Founded: Nov 21, 2015
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Postby Korhalian Dominion » Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:58 am

The Dominion's Armored Division is equipped with Crucio Siege Tank as their standard weapon.

*this weapon and all of its components are completely based on StarCraft II real time strategy game*

Image
"The days of military oppression, forced labor, and unlawful conscription are coming to an end. I have already begun establishing new regulations and limitations for the senate to weed out corruption and ensure that it stands as a clear and unwavering voice of the people. Our military will be re-purposed to protect the people instead of proscribing them.
This new order of rule, this new Dominion, shall be maintained by liberty and justice to the citizens of mankind, those courageous pioneers who have fought through horrors unimaginable to become stewards of this distant end of the universe. Never again will fear, greed, or alien threats force us from our rightful place in the Koprulu sector, or from the sacred human desire for freedom."

- Emperor Valerian Mengsk -

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Ardavia
Senator
 
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Founded: Jun 05, 2013
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Postby Ardavia » Sat Nov 28, 2015 8:42 am

so i did some measuring on my mbt design

hull length = 7,89m
length with gun forward 10m (this was the number i started from)
hull width = 2,92m
width with tracks (and skirts) = 4,44m
height (track bottom to turret roof) = 2,2m
(the hatches are 67cm across, and it's got ~37cm of ground clearance [which seems a bit little, should I increase it?])

it's a bit fat, i think
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Fordorsia
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Founded: Oct 04, 2012
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Postby Fordorsia » Sat Nov 28, 2015 8:53 am

Ardavia wrote:so i did some measuring on my mbt design

hull length = 7,89m
length with gun forward 10m (this was the number i started from)
hull width = 2,92m
width with tracks (and skirts) = 4,44m
height (track bottom to turret roof) = 2,2m
(the hatches are 67cm across, and it's got ~37cm of ground clearance [which seems a bit little, should I increase it?])

it's a bit fat, i think


Seems a bit wide for its length. And I'd raise the ground clearance to 40-50cm.
Pro: Swords
Anti: Guns

San-Silvacian wrote:Forgot to take off my Rhodie shorts when I went to sleep.
Woke up in bitches and enemy combatants.

Crookfur wrote:Speak for yourself, Crookfur infantry enjoy the sheer uber high speed low drag operator nature of their tactical woad

Spreewerke wrote:One of our employees ate a raw kidney and a raw liver and the only powers he gained was the ability to summon a massive hospital bill.

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Fordorsia
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Founded: Oct 04, 2012
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Postby Fordorsia » Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:24 am

Getting there

The driver's hatch is on rails, and slides underneath the turret face. With the angle he sits at, it would probably be tricky with the periscopes being where they are. But hey ho at least the hatch is a good size. Thoughts?
Pro: Swords
Anti: Guns

San-Silvacian wrote:Forgot to take off my Rhodie shorts when I went to sleep.
Woke up in bitches and enemy combatants.

Crookfur wrote:Speak for yourself, Crookfur infantry enjoy the sheer uber high speed low drag operator nature of their tactical woad

Spreewerke wrote:One of our employees ate a raw kidney and a raw liver and the only powers he gained was the ability to summon a massive hospital bill.

Premislyd wrote:This is probably the best thing somebody has ever spammed.

Puzikas wrote:That joke was so dark it has to smile to be seen at night.

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Purpelia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34249
Founded: Oct 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Purpelia » Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:30 am

Fordorsia wrote:Getting there

The driver's hatch is on rails, and slides underneath the turret face. With the angle he sits at, it would probably be tricky with the periscopes being where they are. But hey ho at least the hatch is a good size. Thoughts?

I'd add a line to separate the skirts that go over the tracks from the rest of the hull visually. Also exhausts.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Fordorsia
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Posts: 20431
Founded: Oct 04, 2012
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Postby Fordorsia » Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:49 am

Purpelia wrote:
Fordorsia wrote:Getting there

The driver's hatch is on rails, and slides underneath the turret face. With the angle he sits at, it would probably be tricky with the periscopes being where they are. But hey ho at least the hatch is a good size. Thoughts?

I'd add a line to separate the skirts that go over the tracks from the rest of the hull visually. Also exhausts.


Adding lines there would probably just confuse me later on, as the hull roof is supposed to be one piece (besides the engine deck) and would interfere with the actual angling lines. Added exhuasts though
Last edited by Fordorsia on Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
Pro: Swords
Anti: Guns

San-Silvacian wrote:Forgot to take off my Rhodie shorts when I went to sleep.
Woke up in bitches and enemy combatants.

Crookfur wrote:Speak for yourself, Crookfur infantry enjoy the sheer uber high speed low drag operator nature of their tactical woad

Spreewerke wrote:One of our employees ate a raw kidney and a raw liver and the only powers he gained was the ability to summon a massive hospital bill.

Premislyd wrote:This is probably the best thing somebody has ever spammed.

Puzikas wrote:That joke was so dark it has to smile to be seen at night.

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Purpelia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34249
Founded: Oct 19, 2010
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Postby Purpelia » Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:53 am

Fordorsia wrote:
Purpelia wrote:I'd add a line to separate the skirts that go over the tracks from the rest of the hull visually. Also exhausts.


Adding lines there would probably just confuse me later on, as the hull roof is supposed to be one piece (besides the engine deck) and would interfere with the actual angling lines. Added exhuasts though

One piece? That is highly unusual. I am not aware of any tank that does it. Also you might want to add some cover over the front part of the tracks preferably with hinges so it can flip up for maintenance. That way your tank wont take a bath in mud every time it drives off road.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Fordorsia
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Posts: 20431
Founded: Oct 04, 2012
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Postby Fordorsia » Sat Nov 28, 2015 11:00 am

Purpelia wrote:
Fordorsia wrote:
Adding lines there would probably just confuse me later on, as the hull roof is supposed to be one piece (besides the engine deck) and would interfere with the actual angling lines. Added exhuasts though

One piece? That is highly unusual. I am not aware of any tank that does it. Also you might want to add some cover over the front part of the tracks preferably with hinges so it can flip up for maintenance. That way your tank wont take a bath in mud every time it drives off road.


I don't see why it shouldn't be one piece. It's not like parts of the hull need replacing often. And I don't know about front mud guards. Tanks don't really go fast in reverse so you're not getting shit all over the front hull, and what's the worst that can happen from a bit of mud being thrown forwards away from the tank when going forwards?
Pro: Swords
Anti: Guns

San-Silvacian wrote:Forgot to take off my Rhodie shorts when I went to sleep.
Woke up in bitches and enemy combatants.

Crookfur wrote:Speak for yourself, Crookfur infantry enjoy the sheer uber high speed low drag operator nature of their tactical woad

Spreewerke wrote:One of our employees ate a raw kidney and a raw liver and the only powers he gained was the ability to summon a massive hospital bill.

Premislyd wrote:This is probably the best thing somebody has ever spammed.

Puzikas wrote:That joke was so dark it has to smile to be seen at night.

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Purpelia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34249
Founded: Oct 19, 2010
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Postby Purpelia » Sat Nov 28, 2015 11:05 am

Fordorsia wrote:I don't see why it shouldn't be one piece. It's not like parts of the hull need replacing often.

Me neither. But every vehicle I have ever seen has them separate. Possibly because every vehicle I've ever seen has the lower down and not at the same level as the hull too. It's just an observation though. Can't help you with the logic.

And I don't know about front mud guards. Tanks don't really go fast in reverse so you're not getting shit all over the front hull, and what's the worst that can happen from a bit of mud being thrown forwards away from the tank when going forwards?

The worst thing that can happen is you having to draw the track links from the top down view and try to match their position to the side view. ;)
Also like a bullet or some shrapnel lodging into the tracks and breaking them when it otherwise wouldn't have.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Fordorsia
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Posts: 20431
Founded: Oct 04, 2012
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Postby Fordorsia » Sat Nov 28, 2015 11:33 am

Pro: Swords
Anti: Guns

San-Silvacian wrote:Forgot to take off my Rhodie shorts when I went to sleep.
Woke up in bitches and enemy combatants.

Crookfur wrote:Speak for yourself, Crookfur infantry enjoy the sheer uber high speed low drag operator nature of their tactical woad

Spreewerke wrote:One of our employees ate a raw kidney and a raw liver and the only powers he gained was the ability to summon a massive hospital bill.

Premislyd wrote:This is probably the best thing somebody has ever spammed.

Puzikas wrote:That joke was so dark it has to smile to be seen at night.

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Purpelia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34249
Founded: Oct 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Purpelia » Sat Nov 28, 2015 11:34 am

Fordorsia wrote:Happy now?

That depends. What's the price tag on a division of these things and do you do shipping?
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Fordorsia
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Posts: 20431
Founded: Oct 04, 2012
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Postby Fordorsia » Sat Nov 28, 2015 11:38 am

Purpelia wrote:
Fordorsia wrote:Happy now?

That depends. What's the price tag on a division of these things and do you do shipping?


Absolutely no idea and we use rocket mail.

What the general layout of armoured units? I don't know shit about how many people or tanks are in all these structures.
Pro: Swords
Anti: Guns

San-Silvacian wrote:Forgot to take off my Rhodie shorts when I went to sleep.
Woke up in bitches and enemy combatants.

Crookfur wrote:Speak for yourself, Crookfur infantry enjoy the sheer uber high speed low drag operator nature of their tactical woad

Spreewerke wrote:One of our employees ate a raw kidney and a raw liver and the only powers he gained was the ability to summon a massive hospital bill.

Premislyd wrote:This is probably the best thing somebody has ever spammed.

Puzikas wrote:That joke was so dark it has to smile to be seen at night.

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Immoren
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 65565
Founded: Mar 20, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Immoren » Sat Nov 28, 2015 11:40 am

Fordorsia wrote:Happy now?


Is that a loader, sitting wrong way?
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Fordorsia
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Founded: Oct 04, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Fordorsia » Sat Nov 28, 2015 11:41 am

Immoren wrote:
Fordorsia wrote:Happy now?


Is that a loader, sitting wrong way?


Stands up while loading. Having the chair backwards just provides more room.
Pro: Swords
Anti: Guns

San-Silvacian wrote:Forgot to take off my Rhodie shorts when I went to sleep.
Woke up in bitches and enemy combatants.

Crookfur wrote:Speak for yourself, Crookfur infantry enjoy the sheer uber high speed low drag operator nature of their tactical woad

Spreewerke wrote:One of our employees ate a raw kidney and a raw liver and the only powers he gained was the ability to summon a massive hospital bill.

Premislyd wrote:This is probably the best thing somebody has ever spammed.

Puzikas wrote:That joke was so dark it has to smile to be seen at night.

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Transvaal Vrystaat
Diplomat
 
Posts: 534
Founded: Sep 22, 2015
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Postby Transvaal Vrystaat » Sat Nov 28, 2015 11:49 am

What was the name of that one US prototype tank with the gunpod that was capable of being elevated to fire over cover?

I remember seeing it somewhere a while back, but I can't remember the name for the life of me.
Literal Space Boers in the Asteroid Belt. Factbook tbd.

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Freihafen
Envoy
 
Posts: 213
Founded: Nov 26, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Freihafen » Sat Nov 28, 2015 12:20 pm

Transvaal Vrystaat wrote:What was the name of that one US prototype tank with the gunpod that was capable of being elevated to fire over cover?

I remember seeing it somewhere a while back, but I can't remember the name for the life of me.

Could you have been talking about the Elevated Kinetic Energy (ELKE) Weapon Test Bed which was the 75mm ARES gun carried on a M551 chassis from 1982?

Image
Old radar types never die; they just phased array.

Mallorea and Riva should resign.

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Transvaal Vrystaat
Diplomat
 
Posts: 534
Founded: Sep 22, 2015
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Postby Transvaal Vrystaat » Sat Nov 28, 2015 12:24 pm

Freihafen wrote:
Transvaal Vrystaat wrote:What was the name of that one US prototype tank with the gunpod that was capable of being elevated to fire over cover?

I remember seeing it somewhere a while back, but I can't remember the name for the life of me.

Could you have been talking about the Elevated Kinetic Energy (ELKE) Weapon Test Bed which was the 75mm ARES gun carried on a M551 chassis from 1982?

Image

That looks about right.
Literal Space Boers in the Asteroid Belt. Factbook tbd.

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New Visegrad
Minister
 
Posts: 2652
Founded: May 30, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby New Visegrad » Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:10 pm

(Art) -- People who get DEATed usually deserve it.
New Visegrad region - “One man stood tall and in the face of evil roared”
Capital: March City
Affiliation: Core Governance
Tech level: FT/Multiverse
Post-apocalyptic hypertechnological corporate/bureaucratic militaristic multispecies semi-utopia.
It is the year 4411. After a devastating galactic war between the authoritarian Galactic Defense League and an alliance of breakaway factions seeking to overturn the fascist government, a new socialist state - the Core Governance - seeks to rebuild a unified, peaceful galaxy where everyone can live in safety.
Brit. Concept artist (hire me). If you like to call people "SJWs" I'm probably one of them.

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Ardavia
Senator
 
Posts: 4732
Founded: Jun 05, 2013
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Postby Ardavia » Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:45 pm

preliminary design for a tank with unmanned turret

still need to add suspension arms, a drive wheel, skirts, hatches and all that stuff

any glaring flaws apparent with the turret/hull as they are?
Last edited by Ardavia on Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
professional contrarian
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