NationStates

New Nirvash wrote:

Palmyrion wrote:Do you guys have any grudge on:
1) bullpups

Like 2 people did and then the newfags sort of turned it into a meme. Bullpups are fine.

Palmyrion wrote:Do you guys have any grudge on:
2) 20" barrels

Only on service rifles.

That said, is a bullpup with a 20" barrel feasible as a service rifle?

Kassaran wrote:IIRC, if you're in trenches, you're fucked. That's what it comes down to.

No!
Bad!
Wrong!
*Roll of newspaper*

Yymea wrote:I have a question, when would it be a realistic situation to use trenches?

Whenever you might be shot at.

I can't think of a single conflict in the 20th century that lasted long enough to dig a trench, where no trenches were dug.

Palmyrion wrote:

New Nirvash wrote:Like 2 people did and then the newfags sort of turned it into a meme. Bullpups are fine.


Only on service rifles.

That said, is a bullpup with a 20" barrel feasible as a service rifle?

Sure.

Is it possible for a 6.+ mm intermediate projectile to have 5.56 NATO ballistics and 7.62 NATO terminal performance? That's my goal, actually. I guess I might have to start from scratch for my intermediate cartridge, with only 6.5 Grendel as my parent case and the requirement of a 6.8mm bullet.

Palmyrion wrote:

New Nirvash wrote:Like 2 people did and then the newfags sort of turned it into a meme. Bullpups are fine.


Only on service rifles.

That said, is a bullpup with a 20" barrel feasible as a service rifle?

That's a good question.



Paratroopers preparing for a jump. Notice the bullpup service rifles, which have 19.2 inch barrels.

Edit:

Heavy barrel FAMAS as LSW y/n?

Dostanuot Loj wrote:Edit:

Heavy barrel FAMAS as LSW y/n?

It's open bolt, so sure.

It's realistic that burst from BAR can tear a door to pieces and make a 5m*5m sized hole on a floor in a room behind that door, right? Right?

Immoren wrote:It's realistic that burst from BAR can tear a door to pieces and make a 5m*5m sized hole on a floor in a room behind that door, right? Right?

Of course. I've done it.

Fordorsia wrote:

Immoren wrote:It's realistic that burst from BAR can tear a door to pieces and make a 5m*5m sized hole on a floor in a room behind that door, right? Right?

Of course. I've done it.

Good thing that Silent Storm wasn't lying to me.

Yymea wrote:I have a question, when would it be a realistic situation to use trenches?

Always.

Palmyrion wrote:Is it possible for a 6.+ mm intermediate projectile to have 5.56 NATO ballistics and 7.62 NATO terminal performance? That's my goal, actually. I guess I might have to start from scratch for my intermediate cartridge, with only 6.5 Grendel as my parent case and the requirement of a 6.8mm bullet.

pls stop

Yymea wrote:I have a question, when would it be a realistic situation to use trenches?

trenches provide cover for your troops

provide potential shelter from nukes

provide shelter from artillery

provide sleeping areas



there's not an unrealisitic time to use them

probably not needed in urban situations, however.

Questers wrote:whats wrong with a 20" barrel

25" even better hu hu hu

(Image)

Horrible

Yymea wrote:I have a question, when would it be a realistic situation to use trenches?

Any time you need to hold an area really.
So always.

Fordorsia wrote:But if you're cool enough, use whatever you like. Even though all these are from the first half of the 20th century

The future of 1908

Palmyrion wrote:Is it possible for a 6.+ mm intermediate projectile to have 5.56 NATO ballistics and 7.62 NATO terminal performance? That's my goal, actually. I guess I might have to start from scratch for my intermediate cartridge, with only 6.5 Grendel as my parent case and the requirement of a 6.8mm bullet.

Youve inverted the two things each rounds are good at
Also, stop asking the same question a different way. We keep answering. Take some advice or don't and move on.

Roski wrote:probably not needed in urban situations, however.

Urban is the BEST time to use the trenches.

Palmyrion wrote:Is it possible for a 6.+ mm intermediate projectile to have 5.56 NATO ballistics and 7.62 NATO terminal performance? That's my goal, actually. I guess I might have to start from scratch for my intermediate cartridge, with only 6.5 Grendel as my parent case and the requirement of a 6.8mm bullet.

Buy 7.62x39 or 6.8 SPC. The path of the 6.5 leads only to shame and madness.

He should probably just use 5.45x39, 5.56x45 or 5.8x42 really.
Or make his own intermediate.

5.45x45mm

Estovnia wrote:5.45x45mm

Samoz ;-;

Palmyrion wrote:

Azurg wrote:As I understand, it's because you claim improbable velocities for your rounds, 20" barrel or not. Too, your capacity estimates tend to be a bit high in my experience.

I can tone it down, and I have done it at least. I never want to go slower than 850 m/s for 6.8mm bullets though, and for me it's the borderline-can be more, but never less. I'm thinking of an inflated 6.5 Grendel case all because I want that 110gr 6.8 round going off the barrel at 2790 fps

The Grendel case is already as optimised for capacity as is practical. The only way to increase capacity is to increase length to around 45mm. That will net you the velocity you desire, but round weight will be in the region of 19 grams, which makes it closer in weight to the 7.62x51mm than the 5.56x45mm. In turn, this means that you'll be increasing the overall burden of your soldiers, not decreasing it.

Palmyrion wrote:Is it possible for a 6.+ mm intermediate projectile to have 5.56 NATO ballistics and 7.62 NATO terminal performance? That's my goal, actually. I guess I might have to start from scratch for my intermediate cartridge, with only 6.5 Grendel as my parent case and the requirement of a 6.8mm bullet.

You're going about this the wrong way. Like most GPC advocates, you essentially want 7.62x51mm performance from a smaller cartridge. What you should be aiming for is to get ballistics that are as good as possible with recoil as low as possible in a cartridge as light as possible. Even my 6x42mm round can't match the 7.62x51mm in all areas, and using it could quite possible increase the weight carried by a platoon to a not insignificant degree unless an exotic case (polymer, thinwall stainless steel, aluminium, etc) is used.

Basically, what you need to do is to take the 5.8x42mm and say "okay, here's my weight limit. Now, what can I do within it?".

Estovnia wrote:5.45x45mm

Been there, done that. My 5.5x42mm is basically the 5.54x39mm bullet inside a big long case.

didn't even ask

Aqizithiuda wrote:Basically, what you need to do is to take the 5.8x42mm and say "okay, here's my weight limit. Now, what can I do within it?".

in your opinion, would you say 5.8 Yellowman is the best of the three?

They all have their advantages tbh.

I don't like 5.8 because I can't get my hands on it to test it ;-;

Estovnia wrote:didn't even ask

You just jealous cause you ain't 1st.

Estovnia wrote:

Aqizithiuda wrote:Basically, what you need to do is to take the 5.8x42mm and say "okay, here's my weight limit. Now, what can I do within it?".

in your opinion, would you say 5.8 Yellowman is the best of the three?

The 5.45x39mm is probably the best allrounder. It's light, has good terminal ballistics, good external ballistics and good AP offerings. However, I'd say that the 5.8x42mm has more room to improve. The DBP-10 was the first step towards this and, assuming that the Chinese are still following their "better penetration than the 5.45x39mm" mantra, probably also the best small arms ball round at armour penetration, although the air cavity makes me suspect that barrier penetration might be lacking.

(Puz, want to share any light on that?)

The 5.8x42mm also has the longest OAL of the three modern SCHV infantry rounds, a shorter case than the 5.56x45mm but also the highest (potential) case capacity. This means that it should be able to use some very nicely aerodynamic projectiles with minimal velocity loss when compared with the 6mm-223 and other such modifications to the 5.56x45mm.

In short, the 5.8x42mm is probably the most versatile platform to work with, if not exactly currently the best overall cartridge.

So if you wanted to mess around/tinker, 5.8x42 would be the best one to use as a base?