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Infantry Discussion Thread, Mk. 8 Mod. 0 [No Kaiju]

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Palmyrion
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Founded: Mar 04, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Palmyrion » Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:56 am

New Nirvash wrote:
Palmyrion wrote:Do you guys have any grudge on:
1) bullpups

Like 2 people did and then the newfags sort of turned it into a meme. Bullpups are fine.

Palmyrion wrote:Do you guys have any grudge on:
2) 20" barrels

Only on service rifles.

That said, is a bullpup with a 20" barrel feasible as a service rifle?
THE ROYAL PALMYRIAN COMMONWEALTH | "For God, People, Nature, and the Country"
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Dostanuot Loj
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Dostanuot Loj » Tue Dec 29, 2015 10:03 am

Kassaran wrote:IIRC, if you're in trenches, you're fucked. That's what it comes down to.


No!
Bad!
Wrong!
*Roll of newspaper*

Yymea wrote:I have a question, when would it be a realistic situation to use trenches?


Whenever you might be shot at.

I can't think of a single conflict in the 20th century that lasted long enough to dig a trench, where no trenches were dug.
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New Nirvash
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Ex-Nation

Postby New Nirvash » Tue Dec 29, 2015 10:04 am

Palmyrion wrote:
New Nirvash wrote:Like 2 people did and then the newfags sort of turned it into a meme. Bullpups are fine.


Only on service rifles.

That said, is a bullpup with a 20" barrel feasible as a service rifle?

Sure.

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Palmyrion
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Palmyrion » Tue Dec 29, 2015 10:05 am

Is it possible for a 6.+ mm intermediate projectile to have 5.56 NATO ballistics and 7.62 NATO terminal performance? That's my goal, actually. I guess I might have to start from scratch for my intermediate cartridge, with only 6.5 Grendel as my parent case and the requirement of a 6.8mm bullet.
Last edited by Palmyrion on Tue Dec 29, 2015 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
THE ROYAL PALMYRIAN COMMONWEALTH | "For God, People, Nature, and the Country"
History | Government and Politics | Military (Army | Navy | Aerospace Forces) | Economy | Culture

DEFCON 3 | CBRN ALERT RELEASED | STATE OF EMERGENCY DECLARED

[Commonwealth News Service] | Commonwealth Square Pride Attack Kills Thousands; Lakán Assassinated

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Dostanuot Loj
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Founded: Nov 04, 2004
Democratic Socialists

Postby Dostanuot Loj » Tue Dec 29, 2015 10:07 am

Palmyrion wrote:
New Nirvash wrote:Like 2 people did and then the newfags sort of turned it into a meme. Bullpups are fine.


Only on service rifles.

That said, is a bullpup with a 20" barrel feasible as a service rifle?


That's a good question.

Image

Paratroopers preparing for a jump. Notice the bullpup service rifles, which have 19.2 inch barrels.

Edit:

Heavy barrel FAMAS as LSW y/n?
Last edited by Dostanuot Loj on Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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New Nirvash
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Postby New Nirvash » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:11 am

Dostanuot Loj wrote:Edit:

Heavy barrel FAMAS as LSW y/n?

It's open bolt, so sure.

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Immoren
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Immoren » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:14 am

It's realistic that burst from BAR can tear a door to pieces and make a 5m*5m sized hole on a floor in a room behind that door, right? Right?
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Fordorsia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Fordorsia » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:17 am

Immoren wrote:It's realistic that burst from BAR can tear a door to pieces and make a 5m*5m sized hole on a floor in a room behind that door, right? Right?


Of course. I've done it.
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Immoren
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Immoren » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:18 am

Fordorsia wrote:
Immoren wrote:It's realistic that burst from BAR can tear a door to pieces and make a 5m*5m sized hole on a floor in a room behind that door, right? Right?


Of course. I've done it.


Good thing that Silent Storm wasn't lying to me.
IC Flag Is a Pope Principia
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Allanea
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Allanea » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:21 am

Yymea wrote:I have a question, when would it be a realistic situation to use trenches?


Always.
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EsToVnIa
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Ex-Nation

Postby EsToVnIa » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:33 am

Palmyrion wrote:Is it possible for a 6.+ mm intermediate projectile to have 5.56 NATO ballistics and 7.62 NATO terminal performance? That's my goal, actually. I guess I might have to start from scratch for my intermediate cartridge, with only 6.5 Grendel as my parent case and the requirement of a 6.8mm bullet.


pls stop
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Roski
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Ex-Nation

Postby Roski » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:40 am

Yymea wrote:I have a question, when would it be a realistic situation to use trenches?


trenches provide cover for your troops

provide potential shelter from nukes

provide shelter from artillery

provide sleeping areas



there's not an unrealisitic time to use them

probably not needed in urban situations, however.
I'm some 17 year old psuedo-libertarian who leans to the left in social terms, is fiercly right economically, and centrist in foriegn policy. Unapologetically Pro-American, Pro-NATO, even if we do fuck up (a lot). If you can find real sources that disagree with me I will change my opinion. Call me IHOP cause I'm always flipping.

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Puzikas
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Founded: Nov 24, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Puzikas » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:43 am

Questers wrote:whats wrong with a 20" barrel

25" even better hu hu hu

(Image)


Horrible

Yymea wrote:I have a question, when would it be a realistic situation to use trenches?


Any time you need to hold an area really.
So always.

Fordorsia wrote:But if you're cool enough, use whatever you like. Even though all these are from the first half of the 20th century


The future of 1908


Palmyrion wrote:Is it possible for a 6.+ mm intermediate projectile to have 5.56 NATO ballistics and 7.62 NATO terminal performance? That's my goal, actually. I guess I might have to start from scratch for my intermediate cartridge, with only 6.5 Grendel as my parent case and the requirement of a 6.8mm bullet.


Youve inverted the two things each rounds are good at
Also, stop asking the same question a different way. We keep answering. Take some advice or don't and move on.

Roski wrote:probably not needed in urban situations, however.


Urban is the BEST time to use the trenches.
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Arkandros
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Founded: Jul 11, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Arkandros » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:44 am

Palmyrion wrote:Is it possible for a 6.+ mm intermediate projectile to have 5.56 NATO ballistics and 7.62 NATO terminal performance? That's my goal, actually. I guess I might have to start from scratch for my intermediate cartridge, with only 6.5 Grendel as my parent case and the requirement of a 6.8mm bullet.

Buy 7.62x39 or 6.8 SPC. The path of the 6.5 leads only to shame and madness.
Last edited by Arkandros on Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Puzikas
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Puzikas » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:55 am

He should probably just use 5.45x39, 5.56x45 or 5.8x42 really.
Or make his own intermediate.
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EsToVnIa
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Ex-Nation

Postby EsToVnIa » Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:06 pm

5.45x45mm

8) 8) 8)
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Weeaboo Gassing Land wrote:Also, rev up the gas chambers.

The United States of North Amerigo wrote:CUNT

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Puzikas
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Puzikas » Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:11 pm

Estovnia wrote:5.45x45mm

8) 8) 8)


Samoz ;-;
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Aqizithiuda
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Ex-Nation

Postby Aqizithiuda » Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:34 pm

Palmyrion wrote:
Azurg wrote:As I understand, it's because you claim improbable velocities for your rounds, 20" barrel or not. Too, your capacity estimates tend to be a bit high in my experience.

I can tone it down, and I have done it at least. I never want to go slower than 850 m/s for 6.8mm bullets though, and for me it's the borderline-can be more, but never less. I'm thinking of an inflated 6.5 Grendel case all because I want that 110gr 6.8 round going off the barrel at 2790 fps


The Grendel case is already as optimised for capacity as is practical. The only way to increase capacity is to increase length to around 45mm. That will net you the velocity you desire, but round weight will be in the region of 19 grams, which makes it closer in weight to the 7.62x51mm than the 5.56x45mm. In turn, this means that you'll be increasing the overall burden of your soldiers, not decreasing it.

Palmyrion wrote:Is it possible for a 6.+ mm intermediate projectile to have 5.56 NATO ballistics and 7.62 NATO terminal performance? That's my goal, actually. I guess I might have to start from scratch for my intermediate cartridge, with only 6.5 Grendel as my parent case and the requirement of a 6.8mm bullet.


You're going about this the wrong way. Like most GPC advocates, you essentially want 7.62x51mm performance from a smaller cartridge. What you should be aiming for is to get ballistics that are as good as possible with recoil as low as possible in a cartridge as light as possible. Even my 6x42mm round can't match the 7.62x51mm in all areas, and using it could quite possible increase the weight carried by a platoon to a not insignificant degree unless an exotic case (polymer, thinwall stainless steel, aluminium, etc) is used.

Basically, what you need to do is to take the 5.8x42mm and say "okay, here's my weight limit. Now, what can I do within it?".
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Purpelia
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Libertarian Police State

Postby Purpelia » Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:45 pm

Estovnia wrote:5.45x45mm

8) 8) 8)

Been there, done that. My 5.5x42mm is basically the 5.54x39mm bullet inside a big long case.
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The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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EsToVnIa
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Postby EsToVnIa » Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:49 pm

didn't even ask
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Weeaboo Gassing Land wrote:Also, rev up the gas chambers.

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EsToVnIa
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Postby EsToVnIa » Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:50 pm

Aqizithiuda wrote:Basically, what you need to do is to take the 5.8x42mm and say "okay, here's my weight limit. Now, what can I do within it?".


in your opinion, would you say 5.8 Yellowman is the best of the three?
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Weeaboo Gassing Land wrote:Also, rev up the gas chambers.

The United States of North Amerigo wrote:CUNT

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Puzikas
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Puzikas » Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:54 pm

They all have their advantages tbh.

I don't like 5.8 because I can't get my hands on it to test it ;-;
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Purpelia
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Postby Purpelia » Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:59 pm

Estovnia wrote:didn't even ask

You just jealous cause you ain't 1st.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Aqizithiuda
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Postby Aqizithiuda » Tue Dec 29, 2015 1:00 pm

Estovnia wrote:
Aqizithiuda wrote:Basically, what you need to do is to take the 5.8x42mm and say "okay, here's my weight limit. Now, what can I do within it?".


in your opinion, would you say 5.8 Yellowman is the best of the three?


The 5.45x39mm is probably the best allrounder. It's light, has good terminal ballistics, good external ballistics and good AP offerings. However, I'd say that the 5.8x42mm has more room to improve. The DBP-10 was the first step towards this and, assuming that the Chinese are still following their "better penetration than the 5.45x39mm" mantra, probably also the best small arms ball round at armour penetration, although the air cavity makes me suspect that barrier penetration might be lacking.

(Puz, want to share any light on that?)

The 5.8x42mm also has the longest OAL of the three modern SCHV infantry rounds, a shorter case than the 5.56x45mm but also the highest (potential) case capacity. This means that it should be able to use some very nicely aerodynamic projectiles with minimal velocity loss when compared with the 6mm-223 and other such modifications to the 5.56x45mm.

In short, the 5.8x42mm is probably the most versatile platform to work with, if not exactly currently the best overall cartridge.
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EsToVnIa
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Ex-Nation

Postby EsToVnIa » Tue Dec 29, 2015 1:06 pm

So if you wanted to mess around/tinker, 5.8x42 would be the best one to use as a base?
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Weeaboo Gassing Land wrote:Also, rev up the gas chambers.

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