NS Military Realism Consultancy Thread Mark IX Spitfire

[Questers]

The M110 is easier to support, but with RAPs has a huge range/payload. It's for striking divisional/corps targets from the division. I also don't have that many M270s lol. Otherwise I might.

HIMARS?

I don't produce HIMARS

or M270

the m270s are imported (I produce the munitions tho, mostly...)

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

HIMARS?

I don't produce HIMARS

or M270

the m270s are imported (I produce the munitions tho, mostly...)

Czechnology up a domestic light launcher? Or does the budget not cover that? :P

[Dostanuot Loj]

Brigades are maneuver elements of Corps.
Divisions don't exist.

So think mini-division.

Also, I like to be controversial.

so how does this minidivision fight.

first brigade along a wide front with second brigade behind, or...?

Brigade fights independently, Corps provides support. Sorry I implied shift in wrong direction.
Brigade acts much like smaller division.

Corps has higher level assets, including airborne troops, more artillery, aviation, etc. that it can throw into the mix.

[Questers]

I don't produce HIMARS

or M270

the m270s are imported (I produce the munitions tho, mostly...)

Czechnology up a domestic light launcher? Or does the budget not cover that?

its more interested in staging multi-corps exercises every year or six months

you imagine how expensive that is with formations like mine

[Questers]

so how does this minidivision fight.

first brigade along a wide front with second brigade behind, or...?

Brigade fights independently, Corps provides support. Sorry I implied shift in wrong direction.
Brigade acts much like smaller division.

Corps has higher level assets, including airborne troops, more artillery, aviation, etc. that it can throw into the mix.

sorry i meant battalion.

brigade only has 2 upper tier manoeuvre units, though it has 7 battalions of combat units. so do these combat units operate loosely under the regimental name (and regiment doesnt in reality exist) or how?

[Gallia-]

I don't produce HIMARS

or M270

the m270s are imported (I produce the munitions tho, mostly...)

Czechnology up a domestic light launcher? Or does the budget not cover that? :P

emoji-san

limaws(r) for (r[etarded])

[Dostanuot Loj]

Brigade fights independently, Corps provides support. Sorry I implied shift in wrong direction.
Brigade acts much like smaller division.

Corps has higher level assets, including airborne troops, more artillery, aviation, etc. that it can throw into the mix.

sorry i meant battalion.

brigade only has 2 upper tier manoeuvre units, though it has 7 battalions of combat units. so do these combat units operate loosely under the regimental name (and regiment doesnt in reality exist) or how?

Regiment is maneuver unit. So yes, only two proper maneuver units. But they are large ones.
Airmobile battalion is third "short" maneuver unit under direct control of brigade.

In essence, brigade commander has three maneuver units: Two regiments and a battalion. Battalion thus acts as a tiny reserve.
Although I should point out airmobile battalion includes organic helicopters, including armed ones. It's a rather bloated battalion in that regard.

[Tekeristan]

I don't produce HIMARS

or M270

the m270s are imported (I produce the munitions tho, mostly...)

Czechnology up a domestic light launcher? Or does the budget not cover that?

beep beep

[New Vihenia]

Okay, here's my journey.

According to this website, the Breguet Range Equation is

Range = Velocity * (Lift/Drag) * specific Impulse * ln(initial Weight/final Weight)

According to this website, the lift/drag ratio at hypersonic speeds can be approximated by (Lift/Drag) = 4(Mach number+3) / Mach number.

I am referring to this chart to estimate specific impulse.

Using the X-51 as a test to calculate its unknown initial weight, 740,000 m = 1,500 m/s * 6.353 * 1,526 s * ln(??? kg/1,814 kg). Solving for initial weight -> 1,909 kg. About 5% of the initial weight of fuel.

Using that same percent for an X-51 + 450 kg warhead and Mach 6 speed, ??? m = 1,771 m/s * 6 * 1,205 s * ln(2,377 kg/2,264 kg). Solving for range -> 625 km.

Given 1,000 km range: 1,000,000 = 1*,771 m/s * 6 * 1,205 s * ln(??? kg/2,264 kg). Solving for initial weight -> 2448 kg. 7.5% of the initial weight is fuel.

Obviously this is a very rough extrapolation because it doesn't account for the two-stage propulsion system.

There... Now you see that you won't get 2300 Kg launch weight at all.. even at PMT.

[North Arkana]

Ah yes... the MLRS... Grid-Square Removal System...

[Altaiire]

Okay, here's my journey.

According to this website, the Breguet Range Equation is

Range = Velocity * (Lift/Drag) * specific Impulse * ln(initial Weight/final Weight)

According to this website, the lift/drag ratio at hypersonic speeds can be approximated by (Lift/Drag) = 4(Mach number+3) / Mach number.

I am referring to this chart to estimate specific impulse.

Using the X-51 as a test to calculate its unknown initial weight, 740,000 m = 1,500 m/s * 6.353 * 1,526 s * ln(??? kg/1,814 kg). Solving for initial weight -> 1,909 kg. About 5% of the initial weight of fuel.

Using that same percent for an X-51 + 450 kg warhead and Mach 6 speed, ??? m = 1,771 m/s * 6 * 1,205 s * ln(2,377 kg/2,264 kg). Solving for range -> 625 km.

Given 1,000 km range: 1,000,000 = 1*,771 m/s * 6 * 1,205 s * ln(??? kg/2,264 kg). Solving for initial weight -> 2448 kg. 7.5% of the initial weight is fuel.

Obviously this is a very rough extrapolation because it doesn't account for the two-stage propulsion system.

There... Now you see that you won't get 2300 Kg launch weight at all.. even at PMT.

Strictly within the context of this equation, it can be done with a 250 kg warhead.

[The Kievan People]

Where did 2300kg come from anyways?

[Tule]

Would it severely handicap my navy if my ships used coal-fired steam turbine engines instead of diesel engines?

My country has a lot coal, but no oil. It was until recently at risk of a blockade and most of my ships would be built at that time.

[Greater Allidron]

Hello, I would like some help here planning my naval forces to optimize its capabilities. Currently I have 170,000 personnel max at my disposal for the Navy, and I have a 20 billion dollar budget. I do not have a large sea border, as only 20% of my borders are bordered by ocean. I want my navy to be able to escort cargo ships in times of war and peace, and I want to be able to neutralize my enemies capabilities to land amphibous forces. So.... What should I do?

[The Akasha Colony]

Would it severely handicap my navy if my ships used coal-fired steam turbine engines instead of diesel engines?

My country has a lot coal, but no oil. It was until recently at risk of a blockade and most of my ships would be built at that time.

Yes. It'd obliterate your cruising range and acceleration. Oil-fired steam ships are already slow to accelerate compared to diesel and turbine ships (and even nuclear ships), and a coal-fired ship would be painfully slow by modern standards. You'd also need much more space internally for the powerplant since you have to include the boiler and condenser on top of the steam piping, whereas a diesel or gas turbine plant dispenses with all of these (and a nuclear ship instead dispenses with the need for fuel bunkers).

You'd be better off looking at synthetic fuels in this case; there's a reason why even the British, who had no domestic oil reserves at the time, switched from coal-fired to oil-fired boilers. Even though that left them perilously dependent on oil supplies from the colonies.

Hello, I would like some help here planning my naval forces to optimize its capabilities. Currently I have 170,000 personnel max at my disposal for the Navy, and I have a 20 billion dollar budget. I do not have a large sea border, as only 20% of my borders are bordered by ocean. I want my navy to be able to escort cargo ships in times of war and peace, and I want to be able to neutralize my enemies capabilities to land amphibous forces. So.... What should I do?

Buy some frigates, corvettes, and some cheap submarines.

[New Vihenia]

Strictly within the context of this equation, it can be done with a 250 kg warhead.

Is that include the rocket booster's weight ?

[Arkandros]

Would it severely handicap my navy if my ships used coal-fired steam turbine engines instead of diesel engines?

My country has a lot coal, but no oil. It was until recently at risk of a blockade and most of my ships would be built at that time.

Coal liquefaction is the way to go if you want to take advantage of internal combustion engines (which you do). It's hard on the environment, but depending on what era you are in, that might not be a big deal. China is especially big on it, and the US has done a lot of work with it, but the latter has largely abandoned coal-derived fuels recently in favor of oil shale.

[The Kievan People]

Would it severely handicap my navy if my ships used coal-fired steam turbine engines instead of diesel engines?

My country has a lot coal, but no oil. It was until recently at risk of a blockade and most of my ships would be built at that time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer%E ... ch_process

[Tule]

Would it severely handicap my navy if my ships used coal-fired steam turbine engines instead of diesel engines?

My country has a lot coal, but no oil. It was until recently at risk of a blockade and most of my ships would be built at that time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer%E ... ch_process

Oh, right. Forgot about that. Thanks.

Fischer-Tropsch it is.

[New Vihenia]

Where did 2300kg come from anyways?

Did you see his initial statblock for his hypersonic missile ?

[Arthurista]

On the subject of high supersonic missiles: are all those projects which purport to get Brahmos or above levels of performance in a Mk41/SYLVER compliant airframe actually viable under a relatively strict MT regime? Hystrike/Fasthawk, for instance, or even Perseus.

[The Akasha Colony]

On the subject of high supersonic missiles: are all those projects which purport to get Brahmos or above levels of performance in a Mk41/SYLVER compliant airframe actually viable under a relatively strict MT regime? Hystrike/Fasthawk, for instance, or even Perseus.

Perseus is like a 2030s-target idea, it should say something that it was released as a "concept vision" rather than as a seriously workable proposal.

[Altaiire]

Strictly within the context of this equation, it can be done with a 250 kg warhead.

Is that include the rocket booster's weight ?

Yes. That is somewhat the problem, though - I don't know the weight of just the cruiser section of X-51, so I can't extrapolate the weights in good faith. I can at least say that the ratio of the initial to final weight of the cruiser is 1.08:1 in order to achieve 1,000 km of range with the velocity, lift/drag ratio and impulse specified.

I did find that the fuel capacity of the cruiser is 112.47 kg of JP-7 fuel. According to Wikipedia, the density of JP-7 (@ 15°C) is 779-806 kg/m^3. At most, then, that would make the volume of the fuel tank 0.140 m^3? Based on some conceptual images I think the dimensions of the fuel tank are roughly 1.581 m x 0.350 m x 0.253 m. To reach 1000 km range, I will need 173 kg of fuel, with a fuel tank of volume 0.214 m^3. Only modifying the length of the missile, I need to add 0.836m of length.

Then, to accommodate a warhead - I roughly estimate the Tomahawk's 450 kg warhead, approximated as a cylinder, has a volume of 0.269 m^3, thus a density of 1,670 kg/m^3. Extrapolating that to my missile, 250 kg / 1,670 kg/m^3 = 0.150 m^3 volume. With a diameter of 0.7 m^3, The additional length required to accommodate the warhead is 0.389 m. The total additional length is 1.225 m. Thus, the overall length is 8.845 m, which I'll round up to 8.9 m to make it dimensionally identical to an Oniks for convenience.

Does that seem reasonable?

Side note: Actually, now that I know the fuel capacity of the cruiser section, I should be able to solve for the cruiser section's weight based on everything else I know. I will figure that out and see how it compares.

Edit 2: After trying to determine the weight of the cruiser section, well... The calculated empty weight of the cruiser section using the range equation is greater than the given weight of the entire X-51. It might help if I knew how far it was carried on its boost phase.

[The Kievan People]

Did you see his initial statblock for his hypersonic missile ?

Yes, I wanted to know where that number came from.

It seems completely random.

[New Vihenia]

Yes. That is somewhat the problem, though - I don't know the weight of just the cruiser section of X-51, so I can't extrapolate the weights in good faith. I can at least say that the ratio of the initial to final weight of the cruiser is 1.08:1 in order to achieve 1,000 km of range with the velocity, lift/drag ratio and impulse specified.

I did find that the fuel capacity of the cruiser is 112.47 kg of JP-7 fuel. According to Wikipedia, the density of JP-7 (@ 15°C) is 779-806 kg/m^3. At most, then, that would make the volume of the fuel tank 0.140 m^3? Based on some conceptual images I think the dimensions of the fuel tank are roughly 1.581 m x 0.350 m x 0.253 m. To reach 1000 km range, I will need 173 kg of fuel, with a fuel tank of volume 0.214 m^3. Only modifying the length of the missile, I need to add 0.836m of length.

Then, to accommodate a warhead - I roughly estimate the Tomahawk's 450 kg warhead, approximated as a cylinder, has a volume of 0.269 m^3, thus a density of 1,670 kg/m^3. Extrapolating that to my missile, 250 kg / 1,670 kg/m^3 = 0.150 m^3 volume. With a diameter of 0.7 m^3, The additional length required to accommodate the warhead is 0.389 m. The total additional length is 1.225 m. Thus, the overall length is 8.845 m, which I'll round up to 8.9 m to make it dimensionally identical to an Oniks for convenience.

Does that seem reasonable?

Side note: Actually, now that I know the fuel capacity of the cruiser section, I should be able to solve for the cruiser section's weight based on everything else I know. I will figure that out and see how it compares.

regarding the length, Scramjet's length also determined by its combustion chamber, by multiplying combustion time (0.002 s typical) with combustion mach number (e.g 914 m/s) length of the combustion chamber would be 1.83 m.

My own calculation regarding the rocket booster section indicates that in order to boost the scramjet to its starting velocity of M 4. Required propellant weight would be 1100 Kg, Thus making total rocket motor weight of 1528 Kg (Propellant is around 72% of rocket motor weight) That however not including any other reinforcements or controls inside the rocket.



The assumption regarding above equation is thrust far greater than drag and horizontal flight.

If your launch weight is still 2300 Kg.. Then it leave you with 2300-1528=772 Kg for the "Kill stage"