NS Military Realism Consultancy Thread Mark IX Spitfire

[Ardoki]

TBH now we're getting into RP specifics and that is probably discussed either in a general roleplay discussion thread or in the RP's OOC thread itself.

Would not the purposes of this blockade be best determined as realistic by determining them? If need be then Inyursta, send me a link to the blockade's manifesto of purpose and I'll see what relevance a prisoner exchange would have to a blockade you say could be ended by it.

It's all in the OP: https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=29270072#p29270072

[Ardoki]

You are asking for a "realistic" response to an unrealistic action, without providing any information on why it is occurring. The international climate would have to be so different for it to happen that the reaction would be nearly impossible to speculate without any information anyway.

Alright, you want specifics.

Ardoki has violated sovereign airspace of memberstates of the international freedom coalition, as well as been hostile, then promises it will be a good nationstate, so the leader of the international freedom coalition, with a significant portion of the alliance in heavy protest towards the continuing existance of the current government of ardoki, unilaterally lets ardoki into the international freedom coalition.

what response would happen if the only reasonable analogy I came up with - the US pretty much ignoring all 27 other memberstates, and allowing the Russian Federation into the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

To be fair, they shot down one of my satellites in low earth orbit (900 kilometres above the planet) without any warning. We are not solely to blame, we were very restrained in that we didn't retaliate.

[Kassaran]

And yes, now I would have to say we're in danger of derailment so I'll suggest now taking this back to the OOC Thread.

[The Akasha Colony]

TBH now we're getting into RP specifics and that is probably discussed either in a general roleplay discussion thread or in the RP's OOC thread itself.

Would not the purposes of this blockade be best determined as realistic by determining them? If need be then Inyursta, send me a link to the blockade's manifesto of purpose and I'll see what relevance a prisoner exchange would have to a blockade you say could be ended by it.

It would not be especially relevant in this case. Why the blockade is being set up is not very relevant to the logistics of attempting it. Anything beyond that is outside the scope of this thread.

Alright, you want specifics.

Ardoki has violated sovereign airspace of memberstates of the international freedom coalition, as well as been hostile, then promises it will be a good nationstate, so the leader of the international freedom coalition, with a significant portion of the alliance in heavy protest towards the continuing existance of the current government of ardoki, unilaterally lets ardoki into the international freedom coalition.

what response would happen if the only reasonable analogy I came up with - the US pretty much ignoring all 27 other memberstates, and allowing the Russian Federation into the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

This has:

1. Little to do with this thread, regarding military realism.
2. Nothing to do with hypotheticals regarding IRL nations, because there's a much easier way to find out: ask the other members of the IFC, all of whom have the right to play their nations and their reactions as they see fit. If they choose to accept it, protest, or even leave the IFC over it, it's their choice and no one else's.

[Questers]

i don't care about the realism of the unilateral enterance, im more worried about the aftermath of the incident.

I am fully fucking aware of how NATO works.

What would happen if bears could talk?

[Roski]

i don't care about the realism of the unilateral enterance, im more worried about the aftermath of the incident.

I am fully fucking aware of how NATO works.

What would happen if bears could talk?

this thread would still somehow be useless unless it was asking about a specific caliber of gun in a specific setting.

[Questers]

What would happen if bears could talk?

this thread would still somehow be useless unless it was asking about a specific caliber of gun in a specific setting.

>IDT
>MRC
>conflating them
>roski.gif

[Triplebaconation]

I would recommend not doing it, for one. But it doesn't seem like that advice would be heeded.

Then what would you recommend if said nation is refusing to compromise?

(Sanctions et al have long been used up and miltary force has been utilized before)

Attempting to blockade that entire expanse is an exercise in sheer futility, even for an NS navy.

Even like 4 - 8, maybe even more, nations involved?

Even if it's just more there to disrupt shipping than actually shut it down?

Quite frankly, your position is ridiculous. Exchanging POWs for war criminals? This makes you a war criminal.

How far are you willing to go get your way? Torpedoing neutral shipping? Shooting down an airliner? It sounds like your country needs reform, not Ardoki. (Who blockades a country undergoing significant democratic reform anyway lol)

More importantly, blockades are boring. "We inspect your bill of lading post economic losses!!1" A trial would be significantly more interesting, regardless of venue.

[Ardoki]

On the topic of the blockade.

If I decide to remove the blockade by force, would my best bet be anti-ship missiles (from land if possible, in addition to air-launched)? I'm wary of confronting them in a direct naval battle, as my nation is not really a naval power (though we are going in that direction).

[The Akasha Colony]

On the topic of the blockade.

If I decide to remove the blockade by force, would my best bet be anti-ship missiles (from land if possible, in addition to air-launched)? I'm wary of confronting them in a direct naval battle, as my nation is not really a naval power (though we are going in that direction).

You would remove them the same way you'd handle any other hostile fleet in and around your waters, because that's what it is.

Given that anti-ship missiles are your best means of attacking an enemy fleet in general, any attempt to attack this hostile fleet would indeed rely heavily on them. But probably not land-based, because they will probably try to just stay out of range of your land-based missiles. If you can't actively contest them at sea, then you can't force them to remove the blockade, although you can make it very difficult and very expensive for them to try to maintain it.

One does wonder though why a nation that is evidently surrounded by ocean is not a naval power of some sort though.

[Ardoki]

On the topic of the blockade.

If I decide to remove the blockade by force, would my best bet be anti-ship missiles (from land if possible, in addition to air-launched)? I'm wary of confronting them in a direct naval battle, as my nation is not really a naval power (though we are going in that direction).

You would remove them the same way you'd handle any other hostile fleet in and around your waters, because that's what it is.

Given that anti-ship missiles are your best means of attacking an enemy fleet in general, any attempt to attack this hostile fleet would indeed rely heavily on them. But probably not land-based, because they will probably try to just stay out of range of your land-based missiles. If you can't actively contest them at sea, then you can't force them to remove the blockade, although you can make it very difficult and very expensive for them to try to maintain it.

One does wonder though why a nation that is evidently surrounded by ocean is not a naval power of some sort though.

We have a reasonable navy, which can defend our territorial waters. However, several of the nations we are going up against have very large navies in their own right, and we may suffer heavy losses if we try to engage them (unless, they dilute their strength enough).

I'll try and prepare my navy, so I may concentrate my force when the times comes. However, it will still be very risky going up against them. If I can use aircraft and land-based launchers, I'm going to try before I send out my fleet.

[The Akasha Colony]

We have a reasonable navy, which can defend our territorial waters. However, several of the nations we are going up against have very large navies in their own right, and we may suffer heavy losses if we try to engage them (unless, they dilute their strength enough).

I'll try and prepare my navy, so I may concentrate my force when the times comes. However, it will still be very risky going up against them. If I can use aircraft and land-based launchers, I'm going to try before I send out my fleet.

Why can't you use all three at once? You should.

[Ardoki]

We have a reasonable navy, which can defend our territorial waters. However, several of the nations we are going up against have very large navies in their own right, and we may suffer heavy losses if we try to engage them (unless, they dilute their strength enough).

I'll try and prepare my navy, so I may concentrate my force when the times comes. However, it will still be very risky going up against them. If I can use aircraft and land-based launchers, I'm going to try before I send out my fleet.

Why can't you use all three at once? You should.

Yes, that is a very good idea. Though I should probably wait until the blockading forces arrive before I get too concerned, they might not even be able to restrict our trade so military action might be unnecessary.

[Triplebaconation]

The difficulty you face is that by taking military action, you greatly simplify their position. They can cut your trade off almost completely without an effective blockade.

[Allanea]

So how would you recommend blockading a nation roughly the size of Australia with no nation closer than 5000km away and few reliable allies?

It's an incredibly, incredibly bad idea.

1. As covered, a blockade is an act of war.

Ardoki is fully entitled to shoot at any of your ships the moment you declare a blockade. So are all Ardoki's allies.

2. The problem is one of space. The further away you are from Ardoki the harder it is for you to patrol, the closer you are - the easier it is for him to shoot you.

In real history, blockades exist only in context of actual wars, and are used to prevent your enemy from resupplying.

You can't wage war on Ardoki, because Ardoki is in a huge heavilly-armed alliance, and waging war on Ardoki would require fighitng all of them.

Realistically, a war with several nations your own size over a handful of war criminals would be very costly to your nation, and the costs would be disproportionate to anything gained.

It might still happen - but reasonably it would only happen is there are deeper underlying reasons for war (say, an ongoing enmity between you and Ardoki) and the war criminals only being a pretext.

[Triplebaconation]

2. The problem is one of space. The further away you are from Ardoki the harder it is for you to patrol, the closer you are - the easier it is for him to shoot you.

In real history, blockades exist only in context of actual wars, and are used to prevent your enemy from resupplying.

This isn't necessarily true. Blockades are often used as a coercive method short of war. Ardoki is fully justified in responding with force, though. As I mentioned before this makes the blockaders' job easier, as they can now use a paragraph instead of interception.

From the threads in question, the blockaders also seem to be a powerful coalition and Ardoki is the focus of an internal schism in his alliance. A complicated and baffling situation.

[Ardoki]

2. The problem is one of space. The further away you are from Ardoki the harder it is for you to patrol, the closer you are - the easier it is for him to shoot you.

In real history, blockades exist only in context of actual wars, and are used to prevent your enemy from resupplying.

This isn't necessarily true. Blockades are often used as a coercive method short of war. Ardoki is fully justified in responding with force, though. As I mentioned before this makes the blockaders' job easier, as they can now use a paragraph instead of interception.

From the threads in question, the blockaders also seem to be a powerful coalition and Ardoki is the focus of an internal schism in his alliance. A complicated and baffling situation.

Yes, it is an ... interesting situation.

Hopefully, the blockade can somehow be stopped before it begins. Otherwise, we'll have to hope the IFC can de-escalate the situation before war is necessary.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

This isn't necessarily true. Blockades are often used as a coercive method short of war. Ardoki is fully justified in responding with force, though. As I mentioned before this makes the blockaders' job easier, as they can now use a paragraph instead of interception.

From the threads in question, the blockaders also seem to be a powerful coalition and Ardoki is the focus of an internal schism in his alliance. A complicated and baffling situation.

Yup. In addition some of the blockaders are nominally on both sides. Therefore I expect Ardoki's alliance would fairly rapidly force a diplomatic settlement.

By the way, something I've been meaning to ask milrealism for ages, which may become pertinent to Ausitoria at some point: would floating mines be of any widespread (or alternatively, local) use against aircraft?

[Allanea]

This isn't necessarily true. Blockades are often used as a coercive method short of war. Ardoki is fully justified in responding with force, though. As I mentioned before this makes the blockaders' job easier, as they can now use a paragraph instead of interception.

From the threads in question, the blockaders also seem to be a powerful coalition and Ardoki is the focus of an internal schism in his alliance. A complicated and baffling situation.

Yup. In addition some of the blockaders are nominally on both sides. Therefore I expect Ardoki's alliance would fairly rapidly force a diplomatic settlement.

By the way, something I've been meaning to ask milrealism for ages, which may become pertinent to Ausitoria at some point: would floating mines be of any widespread (or alternatively, local) use against aircraft?

You could make a floating anti-aircraft mine.

But:

1. Nobody has done this IRL.

2. Anti-aircraft mines are kind of only good against low-flying aircraft, (they work by firing an EFP at the plane or helicopter, typically up to 150-200 meters).

[New Chilokver]

This isn't necessarily true. Blockades are often used as a coercive method short of war. Ardoki is fully justified in responding with force, though. As I mentioned before this makes the blockaders' job easier, as they can now use a paragraph instead of interception.

From the threads in question, the blockaders also seem to be a powerful coalition and Ardoki is the focus of an internal schism in his alliance. A complicated and baffling situation.

Yup. In addition some of the blockaders are nominally on both sides. Therefore I expect Ardoki's alliance would fairly rapidly force a diplomatic settlement.

By the way, something I've been meaning to ask milrealism for ages, which may become pertinent to Ausitoria at some point: would floating mines be of any widespread (or alternatively, local) use against aircraft?

As in a submerged, encapsulated AAM? Or a mine in the sense that it's a floating, aerial weapon designed to deny access to aircraft, much the same way naval mine does so for ships?

I can't see either one being useful, unfortunately.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Or a mine in the sense that it's a floating, aerial weapon designed to deny access to aircraft, much the same way naval mine does so for ships?

To clarify, this was what I was thinking of (although the EFP and submerged AAM ideas sound interesting too). Naturally such airship-mines would need to be stealthy, and/or hidden in valleys where enemy aircraft might be expected to fly down to try to avoid radar detection, and/or launched at the last minute.

Could it be done? Would it be worth doing?

[Triplebaconation]

It's called a barrage balloon.

[Allanea]

Barrage balloons are terrible. Anti-helicopter mines on the other hand...

[HMS Vanguard]

Barrage balloons are terrible.

This is triggering. Please check your privilege.

[Kassaran]

Or if you want to deny access to valleys and below-the-horizon areas, string up lots and lots of high-tension cable.