Infantry Discussion Thread, Pattern 7: Sword Edition.

[Schwere Panzer Abieltung 502]

So the smart gun is actually totally based on applicable theories? Awesome.

[Laritaia]

So the smart gun is actually totally based on applicable theories? Awesome.

ermm..

you do realise that the smart gun was litteraly an just an MG3 attached to a steady cam rig with motorcycle grips as the trigger right?

As to the technology behind the in universe remote aiming, yes that currently exists. but in general the steady cam suspension rig was the far more interesting idea as it allowed the actors to wield GPMGs as if they were significantly lighter weapons.

[Sevvania]

So the smart gun is actually totally based on applicable theories? Awesome.

If I remember correctly, the Smart Gun was basically an MG42 combined with a dirt bike and fitted to a steadicam harness (canonically, the harness is self-actuating and basically aims the gun for you after identifying targets via thermal sensor). It's chambered for explosive 10x28mm caseless ammo that has a couple of different fuse settings.

Edit: Ninja'd :c

[Schwere Panzer Abieltung 502]

So the smart gun is actually totally based on applicable theories? Awesome.

ermm..

you do realise that the smart gun was litteraly an just an MG3 attached to a steady cam rig with motorcycle grips as the trigger right?

As to the technology behind the in universe remote aiming, yes that currently exists. but in general the steady cam suspension rig was the far more interesting idea as it allowed the actors to wield GPMGs as if they were significantly lighter weapons.

Just because it's a prop doesn't mean it's realistic was my point. MG42s and MG3s have very high rates of fire which means plenty of recoil.

[Allanea]

I know Land Warrior experimented with the idea of having a camera on your gun for firing around corners and stuff. Hell, Cornershot does just that - although it used pistols.

The Russian Army has prototypes for a FCS for infantry small arms. I believe the US does too. Within a few years I expect this to be a thing in all major nations' armed forces at least for special forces units.

[Laritaia]

ermm..

you do realise that the smart gun was litteraly an just an MG3 attached to a steady cam rig with motorcycle grips as the trigger right?

As to the technology behind the in universe remote aiming, yes that currently exists. but in general the steady cam suspension rig was the far more interesting idea as it allowed the actors to wield GPMGs as if they were significantly lighter weapons.

Just because it's a prop doesn't mean it's realistic was my point. MG42s and MG3s have very high rates of fire which means plenty of recoil.

It was an actual functional prop, the only bit that wasn't real and functional was the sighting system, but there are other real life systems that do operate like that(the French FELIN system for example).

The question isn't if it's realistic, it's if it's actually a practical battlefield weapon.

and the jury is still out on that front.

[The Kievan People]

None of those things are anything like the smart gun.

[Allanea]

What is the major difference in your view?

[Eisarn-Ara]

Huh, belted caseless ammo created by a propmaster for the smart gun:



The excerpt reads:

"The belted caseless rounds that I made for the smart gun. Totally hypothetical but in most cases many smart gun owners would like to have something to show in the feed tray of their gun. The propellant portion is resion and the bullets are 8mm mauser...(though in the book the SG is supposed to be 10x28mm) The rounds fit in 7.62 disintegrating links but will also fit vintage Mg42/34 belts "

Honestly, as awesome and badass the smartgun is as a concept, it may just have a use in a very 80s scifi universe, nothing more.

[Dostanuot Loj]

Just because it's a prop doesn't mean it's realistic was my point. MG42s and MG3s have very high rates of fire which means plenty of recoil.

It was an actual functional prop, the only bit that wasn't real and functional was the sighting system, but there are other real life systems that do operate like that(the French FELIN system for example).

The question isn't if it's realistic, it's if it's actually a practical battlefield weapon.

and the jury is still out on that front.

I want to note that part of production involved an actual, functioning, MG being modified and fitted to the steadicam rig.
My understanding is it worked, but positioning was very important. Steadicam rigs are not designed for that kind of force, and the whole rig would torque you along your centre axis, moving the muzzle of the gun. If you watch the movie, the wide fighter-like stance you see Vasquez adopt, with the gun pulled close to her centre of mass and using her back hand (rear of the gun) to control the muzzle was he only way the firing model could be controlled.

[Puzikas]

[Screams of joy grow louder]

[Allanea]

Meanwhile in Israel, people are carrying huge daggers.

[Fordorsia]

Meanwhile in Israel, people are carrying huge daggers.

Watch out he's a mall ninja

[The Kievan People]

It's a gun which automatically tracks targets.

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/%28Aliens%29_-_M56_Smart_Gun

It is called a "smart gun" because the gun has its own guidance system, guided by infrared tracking systems on top of the gun's barrel and on a head-mounted goggle system, guided by a targeting processor in the harness. When a target is designated by the tracking system, the harness automatically guides the operator and gun to the target. Switching targets is as simple as pointing the gun's barrel at a new target.

In other words, a whole bunch of things Land Warrior, Corner Shot and similar setups don't do.

More to the point it was never shown being used like a corner shot on screen or in the technical manual. Maybe it could be used like this, but seeing as it predates Land Warrior, Corner Shot and similar systems it can be said very definitively that this was not the creators intent. It's a self-aiming robot gun. Which you carry. If you take away the "self aiming robot" part it's not a smart gun in any meaningful sense of the term, unless "smart gun" is defined as "electronic sight" in which case we have been using "smart guns" since the second world war and one hardly needs to ask if they have uses in combat.

And yes it would be hilariously awkward to use in any pose except Hollywood. The brave souls who authored the technical manual gave it their best shot though.

[Allanea]

Oh I thought it was like the smart guns in CyberPunk 2020, which just allow you to know what the gun is aimed at without using the sights.

[Eisarn-Ara]

The brave souls who authored the technical manual gave it their best shot though.

Speaking of which: https://vk.com/doc-8949589_284862445?dl=81e9ea54aca33a0934

Dat Technical Manual, hnnnnnnnng.

[Puzikas]

It's a gun which automatically tracks targets.

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/%28Aliens%29_-_M56_Smart_Gun

It is called a "smart gun" because the gun has its own guidance system, guided by infrared tracking systems on top of the gun's barrel and on a head-mounted goggle system, guided by a targeting processor in the harness. When a target is designated by the tracking system, the harness automatically guides the operator and gun to the target. Switching targets is as simple as pointing the gun's barrel at a new target.

In other words, a whole bunch of things Land Warrior, Corner Shot and similar setups don't do.

More to the point it was never shown being used like a corner shot on screen or in the technical manual. Maybe it could be used like this, but seeing as it predates Land Warrior, Corner Shot and similar systems it can be said very definitively that this was not the creators intent. It's a self-aiming robot gun. Which you carry. If you take away the "self aiming robot" part it's not a smart gun in any meaningful sense of the term, unless "smart gun" is defined as "electronic sight" in which case we have been using "smart guns" since the second world war and one hardly needs to ask if they have uses in combat.

And yes it would be hilariously awkward to use in any pose except Hollywood. The brave souls who authored the technical manual gave it their best shot though.

Trackingpoint.

No, seriously, trackingpoint is about the closest we have to this, and its a pretty solid system. Its excellent.

Gotta mate futur system with futur gun though. Hyperburst SCHV rifle~

[EsToVnIa]

[Screams of joy grow louder]

i was expecting the date to be like "October 15, Year of whenever XM25 went into testing"

[Gallia-]

[Screams of joy grow louder]

i wonder what specific changes were made to address the double feed

[Aqizithiuda]

[Screams of joy grow louder]

I'm genuinely surprised to see formalised testing for adoption going forward, but in no way disappointed. Fingers crossed for some great NDIA presentations in the next few years!

[Schwere Panzer Abieltung 502]

It's a gun which automatically tracks targets.

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/%28Aliens%29_-_M56_Smart_Gun

It is called a "smart gun" because the gun has its own guidance system, guided by infrared tracking systems on top of the gun's barrel and on a head-mounted goggle system, guided by a targeting processor in the harness. When a target is designated by the tracking system, the harness automatically guides the operator and gun to the target. Switching targets is as simple as pointing the gun's barrel at a new target.

In other words, a whole bunch of things Land Warrior, Corner Shot and similar setups don't do.

More to the point it was never shown being used like a corner shot on screen or in the technical manual. Maybe it could be used like this, but seeing as it predates Land Warrior, Corner Shot and similar systems it can be said very definitively that this was not the creators intent. It's a self-aiming robot gun. Which you carry. If you take away the "self aiming robot" part it's not a smart gun in any meaningful sense of the term, unless "smart gun" is defined as "electronic sight" in which case we have been using "smart guns" since the second world war and one hardly needs to ask if they have uses in combat.

And yes it would be hilariously awkward to use in any pose except Hollywood. The brave souls who authored the technical manual gave it their best shot though.

I imagine the smart gun being used in a manner like this(skip to 0:55, although watch the whole thing if you want slow-mo airburst porn), where the operator is behind cover but is still perfectly able to engage targets. Granted, such a pose would be awkward to hold, as most handheld machine guns are made to recoil directly back into a shoulder, and firing with any sort of accuracy wouldn't be easy - but that's probably where the 'smart' part comes in. Instead of making guided bullets, make a gun that directs itself to targets, and throw it on a harness that a soldier can carry. That seems much simpler than making guided bullets - instead of redesigning the wheel, you're just throwing on a steering mechanism.

As you said, we've had remotely operated guns for a long time; the MG34 and 42 were able to be used remotely, and you could theoretically scale down the CIWS concept - give the gun a computer to identify enemies with the discretion of the operator. I personally think it's not an unrealistic design; just because it's Hollywood doesn't automatically qualify it as unrealistic, even if that's what happens much of the time.

It was an actual functional prop, the only bit that wasn't real and functional was the sighting system, but there are other real life systems that do operate like that(the French FELIN system for example).

The question isn't if it's realistic, it's if it's actually a practical battlefield weapon.

and the jury is still out on that front.

I want to note that part of production involved an actual, functioning, MG being modified and fitted to the steadicam rig.
My understanding is it worked, but positioning was very important. Steadicam rigs are not designed for that kind of force, and the whole rig would torque you along your centre axis, moving the muzzle of the gun. If you watch the movie, the wide fighter-like stance you see Vasquez adopt, with the gun pulled close to her centre of mass and using her back hand (rear of the gun) to control the muzzle was he only way the firing model could be controlled.

Hey, that's what training's for. Just like an average joe wouldn't be able to use a smart grenade launcher very well, I don't think someone could just pick up a smartgun and start mowing people down. But a few weeks of training could fix that, no?

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

So the answer would be a simple: The US tried to do too much for current technology. If they just had 5 more kg they could have had a new HMG?

Not at all.

"Current technology" wrt firearms has generally stopped since the 1950s. LWMG was killed because of post-Bellum budget snipping, not any technical reasons. Establishing the supply chain for manufacture and providing enough M806s to replace M2 would have been pretty expensive. More than just putting in some minor modifications to M2 that can be done by unit level armourers like a QCB bracket and a flash hider.

rip in piece .276 Pedersen

[The Republic of Lanos]

[Screams of joy grow louder]

I thought that died or something.

[Gallia-]

Not at all.

"Current technology" wrt firearms has generally stopped since the 1950s. LWMG was killed because of post-Bellum budget snipping, not any technical reasons. Establishing the supply chain for manufacture and providing enough M806s to replace M2 would have been pretty expensive. More than just putting in some minor modifications to M2 that can be done by unit level armourers like a QCB bracket and a flash hider.

rip in piece .276 Pedersen

this is literally a 10 year regression over 5.56x45mm

literally might as well just use .308

best intermediate cartridge is 7.62x45mm vz 52

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

rip in piece .276 Pedersen

this is literally a 10 year regression over 5.56x45mm

literally might as well just use .308

best intermediate cartridge is 7.62x45mm vz 52

>not knowing McArthur canned .276 Pedersen with a memo saying the army was too poor to really consider replacing .30-06
>being this new