Infantry Discussion Thread, Pattern 7: Sword Edition.

[Sediczja]

Does anyone know what this pin is for? It was on a US Army raincoat.

I'm thinking it could be a specialist insignia pin.

---

Apparently a .461 Gibbs rifle.

[Eisarn-Ara]

Apparently a .461 Gibbs rifle.

.461 Gibbs is a pretty rad cartridge.

[Fordorsia]

ooh neat

So what about a .500 S&W SMG?

So assuming you could get the round derimmed and somehow fit it into a proper rifle pattern weapon, I really wouldnt call .500 S&W Magnum a SMG round at all.

From the fatass S&W X-Frame .500 (8" for her pleasure), the round develops 1627fps/496m/s with this stupid fatass 440gr/26g JHP.

Penetration is 17.6in/44.7cm, and it offeres a nice expansion of 0.587in², some versions develop a whole 1.04in² of expansion, which is even kekyer.

This makes a cavity 13.50101 cubic inches/221.24186 cubic cm size.

So what you're saying is I should do it?

[Korva]

Puz, have you ever sperged about 7.62mm Tokarev? I want to chamber my nations SMGs and pistols in it.

[Fordorsia]

Puz, have you ever sperged about 7.62mm Tokarev? I want to chamber my nations SMGs and pistols in it.

It's too small and shit

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

Does anyone know what this pin is for? It was on a US Army raincoat.

It's an army E-4 specialist hat pin.

[Fordorsia]

Nirv what weapons and armour and shit did you use in Antiquity?

If I've already asked then I must have forgot because of how boring your weapons and armour are.

[Arkandros]

So assuming you could get the round derimmed and somehow fit it into a proper rifle pattern weapon, I really wouldnt call .500 S&W Magnum a SMG round at all.

From the fatass S&W X-Frame .500 (8" for her pleasure), the round develops 1627fps/496m/s with this stupid fatass 440gr/26g JHP.

Penetration is 17.6in/44.7cm, and it offeres a nice expansion of 0.587in², some versions develop a whole 1.04in² of expansion, which is even kekyer.

This makes a cavity 13.50101 cubic inches/221.24186 cubic cm size.

So what you're saying is I should do it?

What he's saying is you should build a .50 Beowulf conversion for your intermediate-caliber rifles, since the .500 S&W and .50 Beowulf have roughly equal performance.

[EsToVnIa]

Puz, have you ever sperged about 7.62mm Tokarev? I want to chamber my nations SMGs and pistols in it.

he has and just b/c 9x19mm is everything you need, i'm going to say it was shit even tho it was 3OP5me

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

Nirv what weapons and armour and shit did you use in Antiquity?

Spears. Shields. Swords. Bows.

Usually no armor. Just trousers, a tunic, a fur shawl/cloak, and anger.

Those who would afford armor would likely wear a chain hauberk under lamellar.

[Fordorsia]

Nirv what weapons and armour and shit did you use in Antiquity?

Spears. Shields. Swords. Bows.

Usually no armor. Just trousers, a tunic, a fur shawl/cloak, and anger.

Those who would afford armor would likely wear a chain hauberk under lamellar.

What kind of swords and shields?

And trousers? Barbarian scum.

[Ravincastle]

Puz, have you ever sperged about 7.62mm Tokarev? I want to chamber my nations SMGs and pistols in it.

he has and just b/c 9x19mm is everything you need, i'm going to say it was shit even tho it was 3OP5me

Is 9mm really any use in a military SMG? Would you not specifically need a high velocity 9mm variant like those new Russian pistols designed to take on light body armor?

Or any of the PDW rounds, assuming that you just shoot the guy enough to make up for any reduction in lethality the smaller bullet may have

[Mozria]

I have a question about sabot discard on flechette rifles, particularly with those that don't use chemical propellant.

Would the setback forces of accelerating a projectile in a gradually tightening bore be enough to shear a teflon sabot along the connections between the petals? If not, i was thinking of the possibility of having a sort of pre-stressed plastic disc spring holding them together that would be fractured by the bore as the sabot was pulled through. It would allow the petals to be released from one another, and air resistance would do the rest once the projectile left the muzzle.

Would either of these things be sufficient to facilitate a clean discard (to promote accuracy), or are they not reliable enough?

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

Spears. Shields. Swords. Bows.

Usually no armor. Just trousers, a tunic, a fur shawl/cloak, and anger.

Those who would afford armor would likely wear a chain hauberk under lamellar.

What kind of swords and shields?

And trousers? Barbarian scum.

Falxes and oval boss held sheilds early.

Long tabby spathas and round shields later

Axes are probably also a popular sidearm.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

he has and just b/c 9x19mm is everything you need, i'm going to say it was shit even tho it was 3OP5me

Is 9mm really any use in a military SMG? Would you not specifically need a high velocity 9mm variant like those new Russian pistols designed to take on light body armor?

Or any of the PDW rounds, assuming that you just shoot the guy enough to make up for any reduction in lethality the smaller bullet may have

6.5 CBJ and 7.92 VBR. Hop on the bandwagon kid.

[EsToVnIa]

he has and just b/c 9x19mm is everything you need, i'm going to say it was shit even tho it was 3OP5me

Is 9mm really any use in a military SMG? Would you not specifically need a high velocity 9mm variant like those new Russian pistols designed to take on light body armor?

Or any of the PDW rounds, assuming that you just shoot the guy enough to make up for any reduction in lethality the smaller bullet may have

oh boy

Is 9mm really any use in a military SMG? Would you not specifically need a high velocity 9mm variant like those new Russian pistols designed to take on light body armor?

Or any of the PDW rounds, assuming that you just shoot the guy enough to make up for any reduction in lethality the smaller bullet may have

6.5 CBJ and 7.92 VBR. Hop on the bandwagon kid.

:triggered:

[Spirit of Hope]

he has and just b/c 9x19mm is everything you need, i'm going to say it was shit even tho it was 3OP5me

Is 9mm really any use in a military SMG? Would you not specifically need a high velocity 9mm variant like those new Russian pistols designed to take on light body armor?

Or any of the PDW rounds, assuming that you just shoot the guy enough to make up for any reduction in lethality the smaller bullet may have

Most armed forces are just getting rid of their SMG's, but if you still have them around 9mm will be sufficient. Most armies are moving towards carbines for any role a SMG used to fill.

Yes the 9mm will have trouble penetrating body armor but not all of the body is covered in armor and armor doesn't necessarily stop injuries. It also has generally better terminal effects than a lot of PDW cartridges. That said you are probably just better off using carbines instead.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

:triggered:

<3

[Fordorsia]

What kind of swords and shields?

And trousers? Barbarian scum.

Falxes and oval boss held sheilds early.

Long tabby spathas and round shields later

Axes are probably also a popular sidearm.

What year is early and what is late? If we do have it that you're the plebs that Fordorsia repels, then it could be easier than I thought.

[Ravincastle]

Regarding Mozria and Flechette rifles

I'm not an expert on internal ballistics, even if I do dabble, but combining a sabot and a squeeze bore in a small caliber weapon seems like a bad idea to me. I know that there were function flechette rifles (like in the ACR program) but I think there very good reasons that such are not used. Also though my memory of squeeze bore physics is very rusty I do not think that it would be worth it, when you have a sabot round, as that already provides a good velocity and highly aerodynamic projectile (assuming you want it to)

Now if this is for a specific historic period of for a very special purpose it may be worth designing, but I think more info on the use or specifications of the weapon would be useful to determine if there is any reason to go down the path you want.

Edit: SMG and PDW are a bad idea if a rifle/carbine would not be too heavy or bulky for the person who will be using it but if you have to use one may as well make it good on paper.

[Mozria]

Regarding Mozria and Flechette rifles

I'm not an expert on internal ballistics, even if I do dabble, but combining a sabot and a squeeze bore in a small caliber weapon seems like a bad idea to me. I know that there were function flechette rifles (like in the ACR program) but I think there very good reasons that such are not used. Also though my memory of squeeze bore physics is very rusty I do not think that it would be worth it, when you have a sabot round, as that already provides a good velocity and highly aerodynamic projectile (assuming you want it to)

Now if this is for a specific historic period of for a very special purpose it may be worth designing, but I think more info on the use or specifications of the weapon would be useful to determine if there is any reason to go down the path you want.

Oh, the bore would not tighten very significantly; only enough so as to apply pressure to the sabot and shear it (or, alternatively, to shear the stressed disc). That'd be more in the initial portion of the barrel, and then it would remain at the same diameter through the rest of its length.

Also, the velocity we're working with here would be on the order of ~1,200 m/s, and it would be meant for penetrating heavy personal armor systems and relatively robust cover. Coilgun too, because FT.

[Ravincastle]

Regarding Mozria and Flechette rifles

I'm not an expert on internal ballistics, even if I do dabble, but combining a sabot and a squeeze bore in a small caliber weapon seems like a bad idea to me. I know that there were function flechette rifles (like in the ACR program) but I think there very good reasons that such are not used. Also though my memory of squeeze bore physics is very rusty I do not think that it would be worth it, when you have a sabot round, as that already provides a good velocity and highly aerodynamic projectile (assuming you want it to)

Now if this is for a specific historic period of for a very special purpose it may be worth designing, but I think more info on the use or specifications of the weapon would be useful to determine if there is any reason to go down the path you want.

Oh, the bore would not tighten very significantly; only enough so as to apply pressure to the sabot and shear it (or, alternatively, to shear the stressed disc). That'd be more in the initial portion of the barrel, and then it would remain at the same diameter through the rest of its length.

Also, the velocity we're working with here would be on the order of ~1,200 m/s, and it would be meant for penetrating heavy personal armor systems and relatively robust cover. Coilgun too, because FT.

Well if it is FT and to make an anti-armor weapon flechette rounds seem legit (though you may want to call it APFSDS). Why such low velocity for an AP round? The theoretical optimum velocity for penetration (dependent on materials but assuming something like what we use now) is closer to 2 km/s, with a coil gun high than 1.2 km/s should be reachable.

Is this something like the Steyr ISW 2000 (15 gram round at 1.45 km/s, weapon is about 20 kilos)? And is this for use on something like Power Armor, Mobiel Infantry, or Elementals (depending on what you sci-fi pick is for armored infantry) or is this more mundane armor?

[Mozria]

Oh, the bore would not tighten very significantly; only enough so as to apply pressure to the sabot and shear it (or, alternatively, to shear the stressed disc). That'd be more in the initial portion of the barrel, and then it would remain at the same diameter through the rest of its length.

Also, the velocity we're working with here would be on the order of ~1,200 m/s, and it would be meant for penetrating heavy personal armor systems and relatively robust cover. Coilgun too, because FT.

Well if it is FT and to make an anti-armor weapon flechette rounds seem legit (though you may want to call it APFSDS). Why such low velocity for an AP round? The theoretical optimum velocity for penetration (dependent on materials but assuming something like what we use now) is closer to 2 km/s, with a coil gun high than 1.2 km/s should be reachable.

Is this something like the Steyr ISW 2000 (15 gram round at 1.45 km/s, weapon is about 20 kilos)? And is this for use on something like Power Armor, Mobiel Infantry, or Elementals (depending on what you sci-fi pick is for armored infantry) or is this more mundane armor?

This is small-arms level, with the weapon being roughly analogous to a modern DMR in role and characteristics. It would be portable by unaugmented infantry, and would be used against other infantry.

[Gran La Plata]

FEAR THE GREAT PLATINEAN WAR MACHINE

Thanks a lot Korva, you are fucking great

[Mozria]

Consider that at excessive velocities (~1,500 m/s+), recoil impulse becomes much less manageable. It would necessitate a heavier platform (not to mention greater propulsive capability, which would need more coils) in order to deal with this recoil, which makes the weapon less mobile. I've optimized the characteristics of the rifle, projectile and ballistic performance in order to make it a practical platform for the job I want it to perform. I'm just down to the little things, now, ans o I have this as a problem.

Again, I must ask: Are the setback forces within a tapering bore sufficient to shear sabot petals cleanly, or would I need free-fitting petals held together with a stressed disc that would be shorn by the bore?