NS Military Realism Consultation Thread Type 08

[The Kievan People]

Get rid of the "logistics force" :V

[Imperializt Russia]

Get rid of the "logistics force" :V

I will not have you sully the honour of the RLC :V

[Spirit of Hope]

The TDF is split into these groups:

Turkistan Ground Forces(TGF):

Motto: "You shall not Be afraid of the terror by night, nor of the arrows that fly by day."

Total manpower: 70,000 troops, 150,000 reserves.
Divided into 4 armies:
1st, 2nd and 3rd armies have each: 23,000 troops, 500 Merkava M4 windbreakers, 300 Namer APC's, 1,000 humvees, and 50 M109's

Why the Namer APC? honestly Isreal only has a small number in comparison to there other APC's and IFV's for a reason. They are great for carrying troops into urban combat environments, but really aren't outstanding outside of that. You are also probably going to want more APC's you have enough for your infantry, see bellow comment, but you are going to want more for ambulances, mortar carriers, ammo carriers command units, etc.

On top of this all of your Armies appear to be approximates of US armored divisions. You probably want to balance that, some of those armies should be more geared towards mechanized infantry.

Turkistan Naval Forces(TNF):
Total manpower: 30,000 men, and 50,000 reserves

Motto: "He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth. Navies shall bow before him."

1st naval task force includes:
3 sa'ar class 5 corvettes
9 dolphin class submarines
20 super Dvora Mk III patrol boats
2 Arleigh Burke class destroyers

What do you want your navy to do? Those destroyers and corvettes don't appear to be in high enough numbers to do much by themselves. Also you probably want some mine sweepers.

I mean your navy is tiny compared to the amount you spend on your air force.

Turkistan Air Forces(TAF):
Total manpower: 50,000 troops, 20,000 reserves

Motto: "Control the skies, control the war"

1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th air corps armies include each: 40 f-16 fighting Falcons, 7 b-2 bombers, , 5 A-130's and 10 AWAC's, and 70 AH-64 Apache Gunships

You want a lot more fighter/multi role aircraft for your airforce. You have ~200 F-16's. But 35 B-2's. The USAF has ~1000 F-16's and 20 B-2's.

You don't need that many B-2 bombers or AC-130s. Honestly you probably don't need more than 20 B-2's and you do want a lot more conventional bombers, B-52's and B-1's are something to look at.

AC-130's you don't need more than 15-20 of either, they are only really good for precision attacking enemies who can't shoot back.

I would say move gunships to the army, because that is who is going to be using them. You also need some form of heavy lift helicopters and utility helicopters.

Closing thoughts air force: One you should look at real air forces (particularly the USAF) to see how many aircraft of various types they operate. Two you are probably better off organizing your air force by plane type, i.e. 1st group is all of the fighters, 2nd group is all of the bombers, etc.

Turkistan Logistics Force(TLF):

Motto: "The backbone of the war"

Total manpower: 140,000 service men, 100,000 reserves
Logistic corps is spreading it across the country, and cooperates with different branches. Typically the logistic corps handle the command structure and help direct combat flow. 3,000 M35 cargo trucks and 40 C-5 Galaxies.

I would say send the C-5's over to the air force but it is ok if you don't want to. Also you are going to want some lighter form of transport aircraft.

Also you almost certainly want more trucks.


Closing thoughts, look at RL armed forces to see how they distribute there forces, and how much they have for those forces.

[Esalonia]

Honeycomb armor in all its glory.

http://www.popsci.com/elastic-honeycomb ... ompression

[Palakistan]

The TDF is split into these groups:

Turkistan Ground Forces(TGF):

Motto: "You shall not Be afraid of the terror by night, nor of the arrows that fly by day."

Total manpower: 70,000 troops, 150,000 reserves.
Divided into 4 armies:
1st, 2nd and 3rd armies have each: 23,000 troops, 500 Merkava M4 windbreakers, 300 Namer APC's, 1,000 humvees, and 50 M109's

Why the Namer APC? honestly Isreal only has a small number in comparison to there other APC's and IFV's for a reason. They are great for carrying troops into urban combat environments, but really aren't outstanding outside of that. You are also probably going to want more APC's you have enough for your infantry, see bellow comment, but you are going to want more for ambulances, mortar carriers, ammo carriers command units, etc.

On top of this all of your Armies appear to be approximates of US armored divisions. You probably want to balance that, some of those armies should be more geared towards mechanized infantry.

Turkistan Naval Forces(TNF):
Total manpower: 30,000 men, and 50,000 reserves

Motto: "He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth. Navies shall bow before him."

1st naval task force includes:
3 sa'ar class 5 corvettes
9 dolphin class submarines
20 super Dvora Mk III patrol boats
2 Arleigh Burke class destroyers

What do you want your navy to do? Those destroyers and corvettes don't appear to be in high enough numbers to do much by themselves. Also you probably want some mine sweepers.

I mean your navy is tiny compared to the amount you spend on your air force.

Turkistan Air Forces(TAF):
Total manpower: 50,000 troops, 20,000 reserves

Motto: "Control the skies, control the war"

1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th air corps armies include each: 40 f-16 fighting Falcons, 7 b-2 bombers, , 5 A-130's and 10 AWAC's, and 70 AH-64 Apache Gunships

You want a lot more fighter/multi role aircraft for your airforce. You have ~200 F-16's. But 35 B-2's. The USAF has ~1000 F-16's and 20 B-2's.

You don't need that many B-2 bombers or AC-130s. Honestly you probably don't need more than 20 B-2's and you do want a lot more conventional bombers, B-52's and B-1's are something to look at.

AC-130's you don't need more than 15-20 of either, they are only really good for precision attacking enemies who can't shoot back.

I would say move gunships to the army, because that is who is going to be using them. You also need some form of heavy lift helicopters and utility helicopters.

Closing thoughts air force: One you should look at real air forces (particularly the USAF) to see how many aircraft of various types they operate. Two you are probably better off organizing your air force by plane type, i.e. 1st group is all of the fighters, 2nd group is all of the bombers, etc.

Turkistan Logistics Force(TLF):

Motto: "The backbone of the war"

Total manpower: 140,000 service men, 100,000 reserves
Logistic corps is spreading it across the country, and cooperates with different branches. Typically the logistic corps handle the command structure and help direct combat flow. 3,000 M35 cargo trucks and 40 C-5 Galaxies.

I would say send the C-5's over to the air force but it is ok if you don't want to. Also you are going to want some lighter form of transport aircraft.

Also you almost certainly want more trucks.


Closing thoughts, look at RL armed forces to see how they distribute there forces, and how much they have for those forces.

I'll get on it soon, thanks for the input.

[Imperializt Russia]

Honeycomb armor in all its glory.

http://www.popsci.com/elastic-honeycomb ... ompression

"Armour" sounds disingenuous.
This is protection for blunt-force impact - vehicle crashes, helmet smashes. I doubt its utility against high-velocity penetrating trauma.

[The Soodean Imperium]

Not mortar brigades, but artillery brigades. Or rather, indirect fire support units.

Exactly.

The "Mortar Brigade" example is a good way of putting it, but a better parallel might be a "Sniper Brigade." At the Strategic level you still need the ability to eliminate key individuals in the enemy's command structure. And the execution of this plan might, in some instances, involve sniper rifles. The US has been doing this for over a decade, but it isn't doing so with "Sniper Brigades." Instead, there's long-term, networked coordination between special forces, intelligence agencies, drone operators, and a variety of other parties, sometimes independently and sometimes working in tandem, over a long period of time. Conceptually you could say the US's entire intelligence-counterterrorism complex is the functional equivalent of a "Sniper Brigade," but only in the sense that apples and oranges are both fruit.

The same goes for logistics. You will still need some means for keeping an Army or Front or Group of Fronts supplied. But at that scale, logistics functions in a different way than it does at the Army or Divisional level. Instead of having an entire Corps of fuel trucks driving around, you have a variety of military and civilian services and agencies making sure that fuel arrives at your bases of operation on a timely basis.

[Spirit of Hope]

Why the Namer APC? honestly Isreal only has a small number in comparison to there other APC's and IFV's for a reason. They are great for carrying troops into urban combat environments, but really aren't outstanding outside of that. You are also probably going to want more APC's you have enough for your infantry, see bellow comment, but you are going to want more for ambulances, mortar carriers, ammo carriers command units, etc.

On top of this all of your Armies appear to be approximates of US armored divisions. You probably want to balance that, some of those armies should be more geared towards mechanized infantry.



What do you want your navy to do? Those destroyers and corvettes don't appear to be in high enough numbers to do much by themselves. Also you probably want some mine sweepers.

I mean your navy is tiny compared to the amount you spend on your air force.



You want a lot more fighter/multi role aircraft for your airforce. You have ~200 F-16's. But 35 B-2's. The USAF has ~1000 F-16's and 20 B-2's.

You don't need that many B-2 bombers or AC-130s. Honestly you probably don't need more than 20 B-2's and you do want a lot more conventional bombers, B-52's and B-1's are something to look at.

AC-130's you don't need more than 15-20 of either, they are only really good for precision attacking enemies who can't shoot back.

I would say move gunships to the army, because that is who is going to be using them. You also need some form of heavy lift helicopters and utility helicopters.

Closing thoughts air force: One you should look at real air forces (particularly the USAF) to see how many aircraft of various types they operate. Two you are probably better off organizing your air force by plane type, i.e. 1st group is all of the fighters, 2nd group is all of the bombers, etc.




I would say send the C-5's over to the air force but it is ok if you don't want to. Also you are going to want some lighter form of transport aircraft.

Also you almost certainly want more trucks.


Closing thoughts, look at RL armed forces to see how they distribute there forces, and how much they have for those forces.

I'll get on it soon, thanks for the input.

I should add this: Your army units have the equipment of a division, but the manpower of a corps which usually consists of 2-5 divisions.

[Esalonia]

Honeycomb armor in all its glory.

http://www.popsci.com/elastic-honeycomb ... ompression

"Armour" sounds disingenuous.
This is protection for blunt-force impact - vehicle crashes, helmet smashes. I doubt its utility against high-velocity penetrating trauma.

Will you have a peaceful mind driving a car whose bumpers are filled with this honeycomb?

Still, another breakthrough in honeycomb-style armor, don't you think?

As for high-velocity penetration, I guess we're not gonna use nylon for this, but rather, the long renowned tungsten disulfide.

[United Earthlings]

Thanks. Does that have stuff for the Soviet navy and air force, too?

This site hasn't been updated since the early 2000s and has the entire Russian Navy, so that should get you started on the Soviet Navy part.

The only other source I can think of off the top of my head is the Soviet Military Power publications the US government did on an annual basis throughout the 1980s.

Us logistics during WW2 were all grouped within their combat units.

European theater of operations was a combat formation.

But there has to have been some sort of logistics unit outside of that feeding into the European theater of operations. Unless the troops are growing their own food and directly buying bullets out of factories there has to be someone on the outside providing this.

This should fill in some of those blanks.

[Gallia-]

I'll get on it soon, thanks for the input.

I should add this: Your army units have the equipment of a division, but the manpower of a corps which usually consists of 2-5 divisions.

They don't.

[Imperializt Russia]

So, I'd like to get serious about my forces for a change.

How do I bring the appraisals of the Soviets in 1984 up to 2014?
What really could have happened in thirty years? I assume it's more than simply like-for-like replacing the equipments with things ten or forty years newer.

Really I'm looking at two angles for this. One is for my now non-canon Samoz. This is the old Samoz that was a westernised post-Soviet Russia with the semiconductor technologies of Korea.
The other is still being worked on. But is in a way, a truer-to-form, saner incarnation of what Samoz began life as.

Samoz began life as a secessionist group from the Soviet Union. In the Sapphire reboot, the Soviets have been ditched for a Slavic state that absorbed Latin-origin groups as well. Myself and another nation declare independence and split, violently, from this state at different points in the early 1990s. I think this other nation splits in 1989. So when Samoz tries to split in 1991, it gets repressed a little more violently. I think I hold heavy industry like tank factories and petrochemicals or something, so we're worth fighting over too.

But yeah, after both of us split there is a large war with this larger state. The state, with external combatants, is pacified and occupied. It is carved up and absorbed by the victors. Ostensibly with the goal of rebuilding it and eventually giving it back to its original inhabitants.
Lolnoep.

So really, I'm an undersized Russia with a lot of inheritance.
A less-poor Ukraine maybe? Or a Poland? But Russian.

I should work out a population first, that would help.
If nothing else, I want to keep the Samoz rifles and tank families.

[Gallia-]

The most realistic option is to adopt M1A1 Abrams, obviously.



These guys got it right.

e: "Boat" once stonewalled an entire US Army armoured division for six weeks.

[Imperializt Russia]

Was ist "boot"?

[Gallia-]

Was ist "boot"?

Лодка.

[Imperializt Russia]

Is there an article on such exploits?

[Gallia-]

Is there an article on such exploits?

Probably.

The tank itself is just a cheeky Abrams crew running OPFOR at Fort Irwin or Grafenwoehr.

e: Since OPFOR home team is contractually obligated to win, they also prepare the Army for zombie apocalypses as well. Not flesh eating TV zombies, but real Voudon zombies who shoot you with guns or try to beat you to death with a table leg.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Is there an article on such exploits?

Probably.

The tank itself is just a cheeky Abrams crew running OPFOR at Fort Irwin or Grafenwoehr.

e: Since OPFOR home team is contractually obligated to win, they also prepare the Army for zombie apocalypses as well. Not flesh eating TV zombies, but real Voudon zombies who shoot you with guns or try to beat you to death with a table leg.

I wanna be in an OPFOR. Sounds like jolly good fun.

[Dostanuot Loj]

The most realistic option is to adopt M1A1 Abrams, obviously.

(Image)

These guys got it right.

e: "Boat" once stonewalled an entire US Army armoured division for six weeks.

Krasnovia always had the best tank variants.

[Palakistan]

What else should I do?


Turkistan Defense Forces (TDF) was created to defend our nation from foreign and domestic threats. The TDF's main goal is to protect its citizens and to protect its commerce with other nations. The TDF totals 800,000 troops, 370,000 active, and 430,000 unpaid reserves. If the reserves are called up, they are paid according to Turkistani wage codes.

TDF motto: "For by wise counsel thou shalt make thy war."

Emblem:


The TDF is split into these groups:

Turkistan Ground Forces(TGF):

Motto: "You shall not Be afraid of the terror by night, nor of the arrows that fly by day."

Total manpower: 70,000 troops, 150,000 reserves.
Divided into 4 armies:
1st, 2nd and 3rd armies have each: 23,000 troops, 500 Merkava M4 windbreakers, 100 Namer APC's, 250 Achzarit APC's, 1,000 humvees, 100 M113's and 50 M109's, 20 AH-64 Apache Gunships

Turkistan Naval Forces(TNF):
Total manpower: 30,000 men, and 50,000 reserves

Motto: "He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth. Navies shall bow before him."

1st naval task force includes:
3 sa'ar class 5 corvettes
9 dolphin class submarines
20 super Dvora Mk III patrol boats
2 Arleigh Burke class destroyers



Turkistan Air Forces(TAF):
Total manpower: 50,000 troops, 20,000 reserves

Motto: "Control the skies, control the war"

1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th air corps include each: 60 f-16 fighting Falcons, 4 b-2 bombers, 4 A-130's and 10 AWAC's and 10 B-52H's


Turkistan Intelligence Group(TIG):

Motto: "Where no counsel is, the people fall, but in the multitude of counselors there is safety."

Total manpower: Classified, estimates up to 80,000 personnel.
TIG: international intelligence gathering
THG: homeland security
TMI: Military intelligence
TOB: Investigation bureau
TPS: protection services for vip's


Turkistan Logistics Force(TLF):

Motto: "The backbone of the war"

Total manpower: 140,000 service men, 100,000 reserves
Logistic corps is spreading it across the country, and cooperates with different branches. Typically the logistic corps handle the command structure and help direct combat flow. 10,000 M35 cargo trucks, 40 C-5 Galaxies, 300 Sikorsky CH-53 Sea Stallions

Turkistan Commando Force(TCF):

Motto: "vos aut celare possunt"

Total manpower: 9,000
Mostly classified.

Turkistan Ballistic forces(TBF):

Motto: Destruction from afar"

Total manpower: 80,000 troops, 50,000 reserves
Controls over 1-2000 Jericho I SRBM's and 300 Jericho III ICBM's

[Gallia-]

The most realistic option is to adopt M1A1 Abrams, obviously.

(Image)

These guys got it right.

e: "Boat" once stonewalled an entire US Army armoured division for six weeks.

Krasnovia always had the best tank variants.

Krasnovia, stronker than Russia. O:

Probably.

The tank itself is just a cheeky Abrams crew running OPFOR at Fort Irwin or Grafenwoehr.

e: Since OPFOR home team is contractually obligated to win, they also prepare the Army for zombie apocalypses as well. Not flesh eating TV zombies, but real Voudon zombies who shoot you with guns or try to beat you to death with a table leg.

I wanna be in an OPFOR. Sounds like jolly good fun.

OPFOR has no moral compass.

They reset their miles gear after being killed and get back up.

[Mitheldalond]

How's this sound as the armor scheme for an MBT:

It's similar to duplex ERA, with an outer layer made up of, for current lack of a better name, not!Kontakt 5 (15mm steel, 35mm explosive, 20mm steel), followed by a 25mm gap, another layer of Kontakt 5, another 25mm gap, and finally 55mm of armor steel.

However, both 25mm gaps and the plates on either side of them also form two layers of electric reactive armor. The 20mm steel backing plates on both layers of ERA have a thin layer of rubber (or some other insulator) to help prevent the electric armor from going off accidentally.

This scheme should allow every section of the turret front to potentially absorb as many as 4 hits in the same spot, yet the entire array is only 245mm thick, and about half of that is air and plastic explosives. Maintenance and repairs are also quick and easy, since you just have to replace used ERA bricks.

[Inyourfaceistan]

The most realistic option is to adopt M1A1 Abrams, obviously.

(Image)

These guys got it right.

e: "Boat" once stonewalled an entire US Army armoured division for six weeks.

What is this a picture of?

[Gallia-]

The most realistic option is to adopt M1A1 Abrams, obviously.

(Image)

These guys got it right.

e: "Boat" once stonewalled an entire US Army armoured division for six weeks.

What is this a picture of?

An M1A1 Abrams, obviously.

[Inyourfaceistan]

What is this a picture of?

An M1A1 Abrams, obviously.

That's obviousy not English writing, and I'm wondering what the deal is with the ERA, it doesn't appear to look like TUSK...