NS Military Realism Consultation Thread Type 08

[Western Pacific Territories]

Explain please

Ignore Korva.
Bit by bit now.
Your country is under occupation by a few island nations with presumably some decent bit of hardware.
What have they done so far and how much organized resistance do you have left?

One has attempted multiple times to permanently put Azen under his control. Fortunetaly, due to the massive political webs me and others have created there is currenlty very little threat of a invasion. And pretty much everyone in the nation hates the occupier but they are nearly gone due to the exodus.

[Azenyanistan]

Explain please

Ignore Korva's post.
Bit by bit now.
Your country is under occupation by a few island nations with presumably some decent bit of hardware.
What have they done so far and how much organized resistance do you have left?

brb

they are currently occupying my land (i am middle east and central asia united) and have split their areas into zones of control. the only independent part of azen are the azen islands.

empires occupy my country. many azens do not like empires.

there are some island nations that occupy me but there are also those that are not island nations. vanquaria is a superpower because vanquaria occupies a lot of russia.

[Azenyanistan]

Ignore Korva.
Bit by bit now.
Your country is under occupation by a few island nations with presumably some decent bit of hardware.
What have they done so far and how much organized resistance do you have left?

One has attempted multiple times to permanently put Azen under his control. Fortunetaly, due to the massive political webs me and others have created there is currenlty very little threat of a invasion. And pretty much everyone in the nation hates the occupier but they are nearly gone due to the exodus.

which reminds me to make a new rp about arabs turning against the azens thus making the azens abandon their homeland and go for africa or another place because they are being told to leave.

[Western Pacific Territories]

Ignore Korva's post.
Bit by bit now.
Your country is under occupation by a few island nations with presumably some decent bit of hardware.
What have they done so far and how much organized resistance do you have left?

brb

they are currently occupying my land (i am middle east and central asia united) and have split their areas into zones of control. the only independent part of azen are the azen islands.

empires occupy my country. many azens do not like empires.

there are some island nations that occupy me but there are also those that are not island nations. vanquaria is a superpower because vanquaria occupies a lot of russia.

Is this for that "Real World" RP you are in or regular canon?

[Azenyanistan]

How stupid is it to try and save your homeland from enemy occupation by several countries from a few islands with a lot of guns and ammo and some ships and a lot of tanks and helicopters???

I gave you those bloody islands, and we are under the protection of the massive Cirilla-UoAE umbrella which disqualifies the specific person you are in fear of from invading, less they get a massive coalition to deal with.

i know that
thank you wpt
but still
the people of my nation
millions of them
and billions more worldwide
want complete azen freedom and complete return of azen lands
lest we cause more trouble

[Azenyanistan]

brb

they are currently occupying my land (i am middle east and central asia united) and have split their areas into zones of control. the only independent part of azen are the azen islands.

empires occupy my country. many azens do not like empires.

there are some island nations that occupy me but there are also those that are not island nations. vanquaria is a superpower because vanquaria occupies a lot of russia.

Is this for that "Real World" RP you are in or regular canon?

regular canon
the real world rp i am sure will end in another occupation and i can do nothing about that

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Ignore Korva's post.
Bit by bit now.
Your country is under occupation by a few island nations with presumably some decent bit of hardware.
What have they done so far and how much organized resistance do you have left?

brb

they are currently occupying my land (i am middle east and central asia united) and have split their areas into zones of control. the only independent part of azen are the azen islands.

empires occupy my country. many azens do not like empires.

there are some island nations that occupy me but there are also those that are not island nations. vanquaria is a superpower because vanquaria occupies a lot of russia.

No I meant what sort of domestic policy have they pursued.
Also could you guys please restrict your double- and rapid-fire posting to an absolute minimum? Shit becomes so very hard to understand otherwise.

[North Arkana]

Explain please

Ignore Korva's post.
Bit by bit now.
Your country is under occupation by a few island nations with presumably some decent bit of hardware.
What have they done so far and how much organized resistance do you have left?

It's not under occupation by island nations, he's been reduced to only having a few small islands. The nations occupying him are generally larger, with well funded militaries, and some fall in the "superpower" category.
Despite his claims of being occupied by "empires" most of the nations are there because Azenyanistan is an attempt at having a nation which is the united Middle East, with ethnic and religious tensions apparently not a thing. I don't put any stock in that claim and still view Azenyanistan as a potential source of threats. But then again, there was a massive civil war afterwards and the country got generally wrecked.
In a slightly related note, the initial invasion was due to Azenyanistan's habit of state-sponsored terrorism. Officially he stopped with the treaty at the end of the war, but Azen terrorists are still a thing.

My stance on the matter is that I'd prefer to keep the Azens broken and divided. When gathered together, they seem to have a predisposition towards militancy and terrorism.

[Western Pacific Territories]

brb

they are currently occupying my land (i am middle east and central asia united) and have split their areas into zones of control. the only independent part of azen are the azen islands.

empires occupy my country. many azens do not like empires.

there are some island nations that occupy me but there are also those that are not island nations. vanquaria is a superpower because vanquaria occupies a lot of russia.

No I meant what sort of domestic policy have they pursued.
Also could you guys please restrict your double- and rapid-fire posting to an absolute minimum? Shit becomes so very hard to understand otherwise.

Sorry. I'm a very fast typer.

[North Arkana]

No I meant what sort of domestic policy have they pursued.
Also could you guys please restrict your double- and rapid-fire posting to an absolute minimum? Shit becomes so very hard to understand otherwise.

Sorry. I'm a very fast typer.

Use that handy "edit" button.

[Western Pacific Territories]

Ignore Korva's post.
Bit by bit now.
Your country is under occupation by a few island nations with presumably some decent bit of hardware.
What have they done so far and how much organized resistance do you have left?

It's not under occupation by island nations, he's been reduced to only having a few small islands. The nations occupying him are generally larger, with well funded militaries, and some fall in the "superpower" category.
Despite his claims of being occupied by "empires" most of the nations are there because Azenyanistan is an attempt at having a nation which is the united Middle East, with ethnic and religious tensions apparently not a thing. I don't put any stock in that claim and still view Azenyanistan as a potential source of threats. But then again, there was a massive civil war afterwards and the country got generally wrecked.
In a slightly related note, the initial invasion was due to Azenyanistan's habit of state-sponsored terrorism. Officially he stopped with the treaty at the end of the war, but Azen terrorists are still a thing.

Under NPE.
*winks at NPE godmod where he apparently brainwashed Azenyanistani military POWs to suicide bomb*

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Right. So I no longer have any idea what the heck is going on apart from North Arkana's post. Can somebody helpfully summarize?

[Korva]

Right. So I no longer have any idea what the heck is going on apart from North Arkana's post. Can somebody helpfully summarize?

shouldve just gone with 3

[Tierra Prime]

I named my regular infantry forces "fusiliers" because they use semi-automatic laser rifles for piercing powered armour (FT nation). Going with the theme of Napoleonic unit names, I've been thinking about calling my regular armoured units "carabiniers" or "chasseurs." My armoured troops use stubby semi-automatic laser carbines instead of full length weapons because they are assault troops, so that's why I chose carabinier. As for chasseur, my armoured units are primarily tasked with hunting down enemy units to encircle and destroy alongside their accompanying mechanised fusiliers, so that's why I picked that. I could also call them cuirassiers because they wear heavy powered armour, but that's not as relevant as the other two.

[North Arkana]

No I meant what sort of domestic policy have they pursued.

Two nations have set up puppet governments and are rather oppressive. The rest are setting about rebuilding the nation by rebuilding infrastructure and making cooperative ventures with the Azens on accessing natural resources. I don't occupy any of the land, but a trade organization of my nation was buying up properties which were being abandoned by Azens leaving their former nation. They didn't seem to like that, even though they were literally abandoning their land, so they protested outside my embassy, harassed my citizens in the region, and assaulted people from the trade organization sent to inspect properties for sale. We detained the people attacking our citizens, because the local police was collaborating with the criminals in attacking us. Then they had an angry mob form outside the embassy and were threatening to break in attack the embassy, and free the detained people. That turned into a standoff where my security personnel were getting ready to start using lethal force if they broke through the gates. Then their leader showed up and fired a "warning" gunshot in the direction of the mob and then one towards my embassy. The mob dispersed, but the other round hit my embassy, so I detained the Azen leader. People got ticked off at me even though there was a massive violation of protocol on the Azen's part. We ended up releasing everyone pending formal charges.

TL;DR most of the problems which Azenyanistan has been facing are self-inflicted by a populace which hates "westerners", "foreigners", and "empires".

And I'd much rather see Azenyanistan remain an occupied nation which is incapable of waging war. The state-sponsorship of terrorism is a major black mark for them, and we aren't letting it go anytime soon, especially considering their canon predisposition for militancy and terrorism.

[Western Pacific Territories]

Right. So I no longer have any idea what the heck is going on apart from North Arkana's post. Can somebody helpfully summarize?

Azenyanistan is pretty much occupied with nations. Most of them are agreeing to return their land in 77 years from our last canon date, but one of them (oh, two.) out-right refuses to give back land. Due to a alliance called the "Main Powers", NPE, and Vanquaria (the other offending nation) are allied with Cirilla-UoAE. Azenyanistan is a member state of Cirilla-UoAE, as am I. Since me and Azenyanistan are both member states of the UoAE, and technically part of the Cirilla-UoAE (although I am completely independent in everything apart from name.) NPE and Vanquaria cannot attack the Azenyanistani islands, unless they are kicked out of the Main Powers alliance, and have the Main Powers declare war on them (they would face lots of military powers bigger than their own, that's why it's called the Main Powers.) And, I, and Azenyanistan along with a few nations that are friendly with Azenyanistan are in a "Council" that decides on decisions that the UoAE will make. We just passed one saying that the UoAE will provide weapons and other materials to Azenyanistan. (Note, NPE nor Vanquaria are on this council, so they didn't vote against it.)

[Allanea]

Hm. Can you link me to the thread in question?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Right. So I no longer have any idea what the heck is going on apart from North Arkana's post. Can somebody helpfully summarize?

shouldve just gone with 3

Gay.

---

So in regards to the original question...

How stupid is it to try and save your homeland from enemy occupation by several countries from a few islands with a lot of guns and ammo and some ships and a lot of tanks and helicopters???

It depends. It appears to me that you have managed to offend just about every neighbour you have in the vicinity, which is... interesting course of action to say the least. If you are now occupied as you and everybody else says then it depends on a few things.
How much do the occupiers really control? Is it like Vietnam or is it like Iraq and Afghanistan? Are the occupiers willing to bring the hammer down hard on insurgency or do they have public at home who won't be stomaching a cleansing campaign easily? How much domestic support does Azenyanistan have?

[North Arkana]

It depends. It appears to me that you have managed to offend just about every neighbour you have in the vicinity, which is... interesting course of action to say the least. If you are now occupied as you and everybody else says then it depends on a few things.
How much do the occupiers really control? Is it like Vietnam or is it like Iraq and Afghanistan? Are the occupiers willing to bring the hammer down hard on insurgency or do they have public at home who won't be stomaching a cleansing campaign easily? How much domestic support does Azenyanistan have?

His nation has fought and lost something like 3 or 4 wars in a row within the space of a couple years. Crushing defeats every time. Realistically speaking, his people's morale would be broken and crushed. But they are magically still optimistic about their chances. As for occupation, the entirety of Azenyanistan, other than a couple islands, are occupied or under foreign control. As for crushing an insurrection, two of the nations which are blatantly imperialist would gladly crush it, while the others would probably still crush it, just less brutally.

[Western Pacific Territories]

shouldve just gone with 3

Gay.

---

So in regards to the original question...

How stupid is it to try and save your homeland from enemy occupation by several countries from a few islands with a lot of guns and ammo and some ships and a lot of tanks and helicopters???

It depends. It appears to me that you have managed to offend just about every neighbour you have in the vicinity, which is... interesting course of action to say the least. If you are now occupied as you and everybody else says then it depends on a few things.
How much do the occupiers really control? Is it like Vietnam or is it like Iraq and Afghanistan? Are the occupiers willing to bring the hammer down hard on insurgency or do they have public at home who won't be stomaching a cleansing campaign easily? How much domestic support does Azenyanistan have?

It depends. It appears to me that you have managed to offend just about every neighbor you have in the vicinity, which is... interesting course of action to say the least. If you are now occupied as you and everybody else says then it depends on a few things.

Yep. Most of them are foreign powers far away though.

How much do the occupiers really control? Is it like Vietnam or is it like Iraq and Afghanistan? Are the occupiers willing to bring the hammer down hard on insurgency or do they have public at home who won't be stomaching a cleansing campaign easily? How much domestic support does Azenyanistan have?

The foreign powers control everything except for this part-DMZ part-nation region called SARAz. Pretty much every occupier is ready to deal with insurgents, but Vanquarian policy is to outright massacre people. NPE policy is to make life even harder for Azenyanistanis if a insurgency was to occur. Both NPE and Vanquarian civilians at home wouldn't give a **** if they [Azenyanistanis] were killed. Pretty much everyone in Azenyanistan hates the occupier with a passion and a shockingly large amount is expierneced in at the very least, insurgency and gurellia warfare.

[Altaiire]

Okay, this is my first attempt at making proper line art for my sub. Is there anything in particular I'm missing on the outside I need to draw in? (I'm sure there is...)

It depends how detailed you want to get...

There should be some valves/holes at the bow and stern to allow water into and out of the ballast tanks.

A flank sonar array of some sort, either a multi-part array like the US WAA or a single larger array like the British and French type. Also, possibly a retraction point for the towed sonar array?

A propeller of some sort...

Where is your ventral stern plane? Is it that spike? The ventral plane is the most important one since it's the only control surface a submarine has while surfaced. On that note, if you wish you can add detailing to the planes showing which specific parts move. The bow planes could also be made slightly smaller but this isn't a big deal so it doesn't really matter hugely.

Launch tubes for decoys, if you expect to have/use them could be added.

Coolant scoops for the reactor, as well as water intakes for general ship use. On a related note, vents for dumping used water overboard.

There are also purely aesthetic things like paint schemes, water level indicators, and such. Beyond that, it'll also look more "complete" once details on existing parts are drawn, such as on the missile hatches, sail, and periscopes/antennas.

Revision #2

Okay, I added vents for the ballast tanks and water intake/outakes, flank sonar, a little nub to hook up a towed array, and messed with the aft section a bit to make the propulsor more apparent. Hopefully everything is in the right place.

As for the decoys, I was thinking of just launching them out of the USV airlock. On the same subject, could you replace the towed array completely with sonar USVs, or does it still have its uses?

Do I really need reactor scoops with a SCWR? I don't even know what they're for exactly, but I'm assuming the scoops are for the secondary coolant loop in a PWR? Since the SCWR has one (radioactive) loop, would it not take water from the ocean?

I'm okay with the torpedo room being where it is.

[The Akasha Colony]

Revision #2

Okay, I added vents for the ballast tanks and water intake/outakes, flank sonar, a little nub to hook up a towed array, and messed with the aft section a bit to make the propulsor more apparent. Hopefully everything is in the right place.

Is the propeller supposed to be inside that small cone at the rear? How does the water enter? That little gap is too small.

As for the decoys, I was thinking of just launching them out of the USV airlock. On the same subject, could you replace the towed array completely with sonar USVs, or does it still have its uses?

The towed array is useful because it provides an extremely long baseline. Towed arrays are usually close to a kilometer in length, sometimes more. That long length and the large number of hydrophones along that length provide extreme sensitivity and accuracy compared to the flank or bow arrays, and no drone would come close to matching this either. It's the best sonar the submarine has, the drawback being that there's an upper limit on the speed at which they can be used.

Do I really need reactor scoops with a SCWR? I don't even know what they're for exactly, but I'm assuming the scoops are for the secondary coolant loop in a PWR? Since the SCWR has one (radioactive) loop, would it not take water from the ocean?

The scoops are for the heat sink, and an SCWR still has to dump waste heat and regulate internal temperature. It's where most of the other 55% of the heat that doesn't get turned into useful power goes. In a PWR, the heat sink cools the secondary loop to help re-condense the water, but in an SCWR it's still needed to remove excess heat. It's also where the submarine takes on water to be purified for crew use.

The "spike" is my ventral stern plane. I gave it a high aspect ratio - I read somewhere that the design reduces drag at the cost of having less control at low speeds. I was thinking using the ventral plane at high speeds and pumpjet thrust vectoring at low speeds to compensate.

Low-speed control is critical to a submarine. Submarines, especially missile submarines, spend most of their time slowly cruising, high-speed actions are very rare and for a missile submarine, a bad thing indeed. It also makes an already unwieldy surfaced submarine even worse, since submarines are restricted to lower speeds during surface transit. In this case, one problem with the tail spike is that it also massively increases your minimum draft, to a level likely greater than that of a fully-loaded supercarrier. Based on rough scaling, it looks like it'd be 18 meters from a rough sea level height when surfaced to the bottom of the spike, adding a meter or two for safety leaves you at more or less 20 meters.

If a reduction in drag is desired, then an X-form stern is more useful. Due to the increase in control forces, the stern planes can be made smaller in all dimensions. Because I presume the helm will be automated, the difficulties with human control in regards to the X-form stern would be mitigated. There doesn't appear to be any space for TVC arrangements in the current configuration, and it would be fairly awkward to accomplish.

[Altaiire]

snip

Okay, mark III. Added the reactor scoops and conventionalized the hydroplane design.

The hydrojet is fed by an intake on the bottom of the submarine. The impeller is inside the hull, the cone section is just the nozzle.

[Eweland (Ancient)]

So I have been looking at the militaries of sub-Saharan African nations for inspiration when thinking about my own, and I have a question: why does sub-Saharan Africa suck so hard at having decent militaries? I understand that there are a few contributing factors to this - low GDP/budget, and lack of external threats, and the threat of military coups. But even compared to Central or South-East Asian nations of comparable population and GDP, sub-Saharan Africa seems to field poorer equipment and smaller forces. Is there a reason I am missing for this fact, or is it just blatant corruption and poor management that is keeping Africa down?

[The Nuclear Fist]

So I have been looking at the militaries of sub-Saharan African nations for inspiration when thinking about my own, and I have a question: why does sub-Saharan Africa suck so hard at having decent militaries? I understand that there are a few contributing factors to this - low GDP/budget, and lack of external threats, and the threat of military coups. But even compared to Central or South-East Asian nations of comparable population and GDP, sub-Saharan Africa seems to field poorer equipment and smaller forces. Is there a reason I am missing for this fact, or is it just blatant corruption and poor management that is keeping Africa down?

Poverty, uneducated populace, no esprit de corps, more loyalty to the tribe than the government or nation, rampant embezzlement and corruption, lots of antagonistic groups, oppressive government, etc.