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NS Military Realism Consultation Thread Type 08

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Nachmere
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Founded: Feb 18, 2009
New York Times Democracy

Postby Nachmere » Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:54 am

The Greater Aryan Race wrote:
Korva wrote:not really

the military is actually a really boring place to work

No not really.

Well perhaps if you were a clerk or some army cook and you hate your current job then that might be understandable. Otherwise, serving in the military can hardly be considered "boring".


You do realise even during war, most of the time a soldier jusr digs holes, cleans guns, and stands in line for food yes? Or sits in his hole being bombarded for 4 hours waiting for contact.
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Questers wrote:An Army without MBTs is not an Army. It is a glorified police force.

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Tekeristan
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Postby Tekeristan » Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:54 am

Azenyanistan wrote:
New Vihenia wrote:
you don't even need sperm either... Female egg cells carry polar body, basically nonviable egg cells, that can be activated.. take genetic material inside it then insert it to the viable egg. boom..Parthenogenesis.

alternatively.. take another woman's egg... take its genetic material.. then combine it with other woman's egg... yay.. the kid will have TWO biological mother.

Thank you!


.. Any good times to travel ? :unsure:

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The Greater Aryan Race
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Postby The Greater Aryan Race » Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:00 am

Nachmere wrote:
The Greater Aryan Race wrote:Except that you're wrong.


Omg, im totally convinced by this brilliant argument.

Lets make ns warfare like rl-
No real parity conflict ever.

Someone has probably never heard of WW2. Or the Korean War, you should at least know about the Korean War. No? What about the Arab-Israeli wars? The Indo-Pakistani conflict? Yep, no wars in the real world.../s

Nachmere wrote:Most militaries reduced to heacily armed humaniterian organizations.

Probably because most nations do agree that war is a rather expensive and destructive thing that should only be restored to as a last resort.

Nachmere wrote:RoEs allow you to break wind only after orders from divisional level.

Sauce?

Nachmere wrote:Intresting tech and ideas die because of politics and budgets.

Because it's not like people have infinite money and resources to spend on technology that may or may not prove to be cost-efficient and suited for military purposes.

Nachmere wrote:YES lets have total realism.

Of course we should. If you'd much rather ignore logical constraints such as manpower and budgets as well as MT limitations then FanT or FT is your sort of thing.
Imperium Sidhicum wrote:So, uh... Is this another one of those threads where everyone is supposed to feel outraged and circle-jerk in agreement of how injust and terrible the described incident is?

Because if it is, I'm probably going to say something mean and contrary just to contradict the majority.

This nation is now IC-ly known as the Teutonic Reich.

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Tekeristan
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Postby Tekeristan » Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:01 am

So I heard the A-10 was being replaced. I'm curious as to why.

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Korva
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Postby Korva » Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:04 am

Tekeristan wrote:So I heard the A-10 was being replaced. I'm curious as to why.

gotta go fast
The Greater Aryan Race wrote:Someone has probably never heard of WW2. Or the Korean War, you should at least know about the Korean War. No? What about the Arab-Israeli wars?

Yeah, what would Nachmere know about the Arab-Israeli wars?

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The Greater Aryan Race
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Postby The Greater Aryan Race » Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:05 am

Nachmere wrote:
The Greater Aryan Race wrote:No not really.

Well perhaps if you were a clerk or some army cook and you hate your current job then that might be understandable. Otherwise, serving in the military can hardly be considered "boring".


You do realise even during war, most of the time a soldier jusr digs holes, cleans guns, and stands in line for food yes? Or sits in his hole being bombarded for 4 hours waiting for contact.

You do realise there is this essential thing called "cover and concealment". You know, the sort of thing that's supposed to prevent you from being easily targeted by the enemy because you have a defensive position to protect you.

And cleaning guns? Come on, this is basic military knowledge. Cleaning your weapon is essential to maintain a functioning weapon at all times while helping to alleviate the boredom of soldiers. I should know, I've done my fair share of military service.
Imperium Sidhicum wrote:So, uh... Is this another one of those threads where everyone is supposed to feel outraged and circle-jerk in agreement of how injust and terrible the described incident is?

Because if it is, I'm probably going to say something mean and contrary just to contradict the majority.

This nation is now IC-ly known as the Teutonic Reich.

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Free Asian Ports
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Free Asian Ports » Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:05 am

Tekeristan wrote:So I heard the A-10 was being replaced. I'm curious as to why.

Apparently, economy of scale means that the more F-35s you buy the cheaper each one gets. So it's cheaper to operate a ton of F-35s rather than the same number of a variety of other aircraft. It has nothing to do with operational performance or how well it's suited to the role it's going to take.

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Nachmere
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Postby Nachmere » Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:13 am

The Greater Aryan Race wrote:snip.



1) Yeah, all of those happened at least 30 years ago. As for the Arab-Israeli wars, never heard of them, I do have two strange ribbons in the drawer to my left that I think may have something to do with them though, not sure...

2) Yes, this is also why the good times of NS were not times when people tried to RP current world opinions and values, but rather "19th Century Politics, WWII tactics, 21st Century technology".

3) 3 years of active combat service and another 8 in active reserve with the IDF.

4) See 2, the whole fun part is in NS we do have almost infinite resources and constant military tension allowing us to do 140mm tank guns, caseless ammunition and other things the end of the cold war killed.

5) I consider my nation NSMT, which means if there is a prototype of it somewhere I accept it is possible and allow who ever I RP with to use it. I also have Battleships, because they are cool. I also have 140mm ETC-LP guns on my tanks, because they are cool. 99% of people here have no idea how to actually design weapons or command military units, hence this is all make believe, and acting snobby does not make you any more realistic than anyone else.
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Questers wrote:An Army without MBTs is not an Army. It is a glorified police force.

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Nachmere
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Nachmere » Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:15 am

The Greater Aryan Race wrote:
Nachmere wrote:
You do realise even during war, most of the time a soldier jusr digs holes, cleans guns, and stands in line for food yes? Or sits in his hole being bombarded for 4 hours waiting for contact.

You do realise there is this essential thing called "cover and concealment". You know, the sort of thing that's supposed to prevent you from being easily targeted by the enemy because you have a defensive position to protect you.

And cleaning guns? Come on, this is basic military knowledge. Cleaning your weapon is essential to maintain a functioning weapon at all times while helping to alleviate the boredom of soldiers. I should know, I've done my fair share of military service.


essential and interesting are, to the extent of my vocabulary, not synonyms. Lying around in ambush waiting for the enemy, or cleaning your gear are both -essential- however they are hardly interesting. I mean maybe if you have OCD.
Have a look at my storefront: Schwerpunkt Arms

Questers wrote:An Army without MBTs is not an Army. It is a glorified police force.

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Axis Nova
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Postby Axis Nova » Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:20 am

Tekeristan wrote:So I heard the A-10 was being replaced. I'm curious as to why.



Because the A-10 is a Cold War relic from a time when MANPADS weren't quite so common and effective.
Last edited by Axis Nova on Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Tekeristan
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Postby Tekeristan » Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:23 am

Axis Nova wrote:
Tekeristan wrote:So I heard the A-10 was being replaced. I'm curious as to why.



Because the A-10 is a Cold War relic from a time when MANPADS weren't quite so common and effective.

Reminds me of Wargame Red Dragon.

God damn Eagle flew over 4 Igla squads and 2 strelas and got away. >:/ Then I figured out radar AA. :P

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The Greater Aryan Race
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Postby The Greater Aryan Race » Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:48 am

Nachmere wrote:1) Yeah, all of those happened at least 30 years ago. As for the Arab-Israeli wars, never heard of them, I do have two strange ribbons in the drawer to my left that I think may have something to do with them though, not sure...

Good for you. Why you showed me these medals/awards though has little relevance to our discussion.

And let's not forget the Russo-Georgian War, the Ukrainian Crisis and etc.

Nachmere wrote:2) Yes, this is also why the good times of NS were not times when people tried to RP current world opinions and values, but rather "19th Century Politics, WWII tactics, 21st Century technology".

Subject to interpretation, notwithstanding the last time people applied 19th Century politics somewhere in Europe.

Nachmere wrote:3) 3 years of active combat service and another 8 in active reserve with the IDF.

Hence, the need for Rules of Emgagement.

Nachmere wrote:4) See 2, the whole fun part is in NS we do have almost infinite resources and constant military tension allowing us to do 140mm tank guns, caseless ammunition and other things the end of the cold war killed.

If it rocks your boat then you are perfectly free to do so.

Nachmere wrote:5) I consider my nation NSMT, which means if there is a prototype of it somewhere I accept it is possible and allow who ever I RP with to use it. I also have Battleships, because they are cool. I also have 140mm ETC-LP guns on my tanks, because they are cool. 99% of people here have no idea how to actually design weapons or command military units, hence this is all make believe, and acting snobby does not make you any more realistic than anyone else.

Battleships? You mean those big-ass warships that the US Navy decommissioned and which no navy worldwide maintains because of the tactical obsolescence of such vessels in an era of guided missiles and rocketry. And why would you need a 140mm tank gun when 120mm models such as those on Leopard 2s work just fine?

Never mind, no one is stopping you from RPing in so-and-so way, however, laughing in the face of and denigrating notions of military realism and logic coupled with decades of military research, innovation and practical application because "Oh it's cool and I say so" and "RL warfare is boring as f**k" do not a compelling argument make. And no this is not snobbery, this is in response to your initial (and rather grossly unfounded) statement that applying some semblance of realism to the application of warfare even in a simulation such as NS is "boring", which I can assure you is most certainly not.
Imperium Sidhicum wrote:So, uh... Is this another one of those threads where everyone is supposed to feel outraged and circle-jerk in agreement of how injust and terrible the described incident is?

Because if it is, I'm probably going to say something mean and contrary just to contradict the majority.

This nation is now IC-ly known as the Teutonic Reich.


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The Greater Aryan Race
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Postby The Greater Aryan Race » Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:58 am

Korva wrote:Unfortunately, neither Ukraine nor Georgia are parity powers for Russia.

Because the last "parity" conventional hot wars (The two world wars) left close to more than a hundred million dead or wounded and that the last conflict between two parity powers (The Cold bloody War) would've left a similar number of casualties if it ever turned hot.
Imperium Sidhicum wrote:So, uh... Is this another one of those threads where everyone is supposed to feel outraged and circle-jerk in agreement of how injust and terrible the described incident is?

Because if it is, I'm probably going to say something mean and contrary just to contradict the majority.

This nation is now IC-ly known as the Teutonic Reich.

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Immoren
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Immoren » Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:10 am

The Greater Aryan Race wrote:
Korva wrote:not really

the military is actually a really boring place to work

No not really.

Well perhaps if you were a clerk or some army cook and you hate your current job then that might be understandable. Otherwise, serving in the military can hardly be considered "boring".



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North Yemen-
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Postby North Yemen- » Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:28 am

The Greater Aryan Race wrote:-snip-

some1 is cranky huh
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Nachmere
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Postby Nachmere » Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:28 am

Good for you. Why you showed me these medals/awards though has little relevance to our discussion.

And let's not forget the Russo-Georgian War, the Ukrainian Crisis and etc.


Well, it had something to do with you assuming I'm ignorant rather than considering I simply disagree with you. Also they are not medals, they are campaign ribbons(just stating that so as not to make any false claims).

Subject to interpretation, notwithstanding the last time people applied 19th Century politics somewhere in Europe.


Ofcourse it is subjective, this whole discussion is.

Battleships? You mean those big-ass warships that the US Navy decommissioned and which no navy worldwide maintains because of the tactical obsolescence of such vessels in an era of guided missiles and rocketry. And why would you need a 140mm tank gun when 120mm models such as those on Leopard 2s work just fine?


Well that actually is an over simplification of the whole debate about decommissioning the Iowa and her sisters. And they work fine in RL, but NS is not RL, thats my whole point. It is actually very unrealistic to assume that something like the NSverse, which has constant parity warfare, would not see advances in tank technology past current day(considering no one in the western world has developed a truly new tank for 30 years or so).


Never mind, no one is stopping you from RPing in so-and-so way, however, laughing in the face of and denigrating notions of military realism and logic coupled with decades of military research, innovation and practical application because "Oh it's cool and I say so" and "RL warfare is boring as f**k" do not a compelling argument make.


If i realized someone would take a half joking, subjective statement to heart, I probably would not have made it. That said, the guy I replied to made a pass at Allanea in the name of realism, which kind of ticked me off.

applying some semblance of realism to the application of warfare even in a simulation such as NS is "boring", which I can assure you is most certainly not.


I am all for semblance of realism. I just think this needs not mean having -only- RL weapons, having -only- RL tactics, etc. If we only have those, in -my- opinion we crush creativity. If something makes sense, does not defy the laws of physics, and makes for an interesting story, than I think it is worth having in RPing. RPing -for me- is not about copying RL perfectly. I don't even think that is what NS milralism should be about.
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Questers wrote:An Army without MBTs is not an Army. It is a glorified police force.

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Schwere Panzer Abieltung 502
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Postby Schwere Panzer Abieltung 502 » Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:18 am

155mm gun in Abrams :U
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Nirvash Type TheEND
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Postby Nirvash Type TheEND » Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:23 am

Schwere Panzer Abieltung 502 wrote:155mm gun in Abrams :U

I just dropped a 140mm into a T-84. Ask me if I give a fuck.
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New Oyashima
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Postby New Oyashima » Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:24 am

Schwere Panzer Abieltung 502 wrote:155mm gun in Abrams :U

Image

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Schwere Panzer Abieltung 502
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Postby Schwere Panzer Abieltung 502 » Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:32 am

Nirvash Type TheEND wrote:
Schwere Panzer Abieltung 502 wrote:155mm gun in Abrams :U

I just dropped a 140mm into a T-84. Ask me if I give a fuck.

Do you give af?

And what's the possibility of a semiautomatic loader? Like a loader places a shell on a rack, and an automatic rammer pushes it into the breech? Like on battleship guns.
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Sediczja
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Postby Sediczja » Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:35 am

Schwere Panzer Abieltung 502 wrote:
Nirvash Type TheEND wrote:I just dropped a 140mm into a T-84. Ask me if I give a fuck.

Do you give af?

And what's the possibility of a semiautomatic loader? Like a loader places a shell on a rack, and an automatic rammer pushes it into the breech? Like on battleship guns.
A lot of SPGs use that system, I believe. The Akatsiya for one.
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The Akasha Colony
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Postby The Akasha Colony » Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:41 am

Schwere Panzer Abieltung 502 wrote:
Nirvash Type TheEND wrote:I just dropped a 140mm into a T-84. Ask me if I give a fuck.

Do you give af?

And what's the possibility of a semiautomatic loader? Like a loader places a shell on a rack, and an automatic rammer pushes it into the breech? Like on battleship guns.


Possibility or practicality? It's very possible. It just wouldn't do all that much since if the loader can heft the shell onto the tray, they can just push it into the breech themselves. It doesn't need a rammer.
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Husseinarti
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Postby Husseinarti » Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:49 pm

The Greater Aryan Race wrote:
Korva wrote:not really

the military is actually a really boring place to work

No not really.

Well perhaps if you were a clerk or some army cook and you hate your current job then that might be understandable. Otherwise, serving in the military can hardly be considered "boring".


What the fuck lol

Military life is 99% dicking around during training, then 1% of wishing you weren't dicking around during training.

Its really boring even if you are the small percentage of combat arms MOS.

Sediczja wrote:
Schwere Panzer Abieltung 502 wrote:Do you give af?

And what's the possibility of a semiautomatic loader? Like a loader places a shell on a rack, and an automatic rammer pushes it into the breech? Like on battleship guns.
A lot of SPGs use that system, I believe. The Akatsiya for one.


The 10000 year old M109A6 uses that system. Newer systems use a fully automated system.

Pull loading tray out, affix into proper position, indicator will be black. Bring down the pneumatic rammer, which is on the tray.

Pick shell up, which has been already fitted with a fuze and set already by the FAASV crew. Place shell onto the tray, which will then be checked by the Section Chief, who sits left of the loading tray and gun. He makes sure its properly fuzed and set.

Upon permission given, shell is brought into the chamber, then the rammer is brought up. Rammer is switched on which seats the shell properly. Loading tray is then put into the stowed position.

Gunner presents charges, which have been announced by the Chief, to said Chief. He checks it off and the gunner loads the charges. He then closes the breech.

Primer is present to chief, who gives permission to prepare it. Lanyard is also done in the same manner after the primer is set.

From there, chief then gives permission to fire.

After firing, a literal giant sponge on a stick, that sits in a bucket under the gun assembly, is brought up to clean the spindle operator group and the chamber.

Repeat 3-4 times a minute or more.
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