NS Military Realism Consultation Thread Type 08

[Purpelia]

Just think about it. You've built this thing. It's a killing machine. It's only purpose in the natural order of the world is to kill. And it does not care whom.
So you have this thing and its spirit. A spirit of murder, killing and death, trapped inside a metal shell. Born out of hatred for all life and shaped only to destroy it. And with its eyeless face it looks at you, stares strait into your soul and squeals for the chance to take something living and end it. And if it goes depraved, if you deny it death for too long it might just decide it hates you for it.
And than you are stuck with what amounts to a Napoleonic Dalek with a chip on its shoulder and enough gunpowder packed inside to blow you strait up to meet Ymir.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Just think about it. You've built this thing. It's a killing machine. It's only purpose in the natural order of the world is to kill. And it does not care whom.
So you have this thing and its spirit. A spirit of murder, killing and death, trapped inside a metal shell. Born out of hatred for all life and shaped only to destroy it. And with its eyeless face it looks at you, stares strait into your soul and squeals for the chance to take something living and end it. And if it goes depraved, if you deny it death for too long it might just decide it hates you for it.
And than you are stuck with what amounts to a Napoleonic Dalek with a chip on its shoulder and enough gunpowder packed inside to blow you strait up to meet Ymir.

Damn, chicken spirits are angry fuckers.

[Purpelia]

Just think about it. You've built this thing. It's a killing machine. It's only purpose in the natural order of the world is to kill. And it does not care whom.
So you have this thing and its spirit. A spirit of murder, killing and death, trapped inside a metal shell. Born out of hatred for all life and shaped only to destroy it. And with its eyeless face it looks at you, stares strait into your soul and squeals for the chance to take something living and end it. And if it goes depraved, if you deny it death for too long it might just decide it hates you for it.
And than you are stuck with what amounts to a Napoleonic Dalek with a chip on its shoulder and enough gunpowder packed inside to blow you strait up to meet Ymir.

Damn, chicken spirits are angry fuckers.

If you are a Purpelian soldier AND a spiritual person who sees the world according to the traditional beliefs you see life in the army as basically being an accessory to a fleet of tame Daleks.

[Imperializt Russia]

dont worry only blp guns are raging sex addicts

I am just combining Purpelian shamanism and superstition with an era of less than perfectly reliable metallurgy. You newer really knew if your gun was going to blow up back than. And the "gun spirit must be appeased" explanation sounds as good as any other.

This might just be 40k seeping in, but I'm still convinced that rubbing the gun down with the blood of a sacrifice will be a more logical and "effective" ceremony that trying to shoot an animal out the barrel.

Surely if the reasoning is worry over its reliability and safety, you wouldn't want to christen it in this manner, as this surely risks a catastrophic misfire during the ceremony.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

I am just combining Purpelian shamanism and superstition with an era of less than perfectly reliable metallurgy. You newer really knew if your gun was going to blow up back than. And the "gun spirit must be appeased" explanation sounds as good as any other.

This might just be 40k seeping in, but I'm still convinced that rubbing the gun down with the blood of a sacrifice will be a more logical and "effective" ceremony that trying to shoot an animal out the barrel.

Surely if the reasoning is worry over its reliability and safety, you wouldn't want to christen it in this manner, as this surely risks a catastrophic misfire during the ceremony.

Don't be a baffoon, shooting the chicken out is cooler. And funnier.

[Imperializt Russia]

This might just be 40k seeping in, but I'm still convinced that rubbing the gun down with the blood of a sacrifice will be a more logical and "effective" ceremony that trying to shoot an animal out the barrel.

Surely if the reasoning is worry over its reliability and safety, you wouldn't want to christen it in this manner, as this surely risks a catastrophic misfire during the ceremony.

Don't be a baffoon, shooting the chicken out is cooler. And funnier.

But then you can't use the meat of the carcass
Livestock will be a precious commodity to gun crews of what I assume this era to be.

[Purpelia]

But again, that's not actually having the gun kill something. Rubbing it down with blood would be the equivalent of taking a starving man to a diner and letting him smell all the food but not actually eat it.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Don't be a baffoon, shooting the chicken out is cooler. And funnier.

But then you can't use the meat of the carcass
Livestock will be a precious commodity to gun crews of what I assume this era to be.

What if we used cats instead then? That way we get a"MREEEOOOWW!" instead.

But again, that's not actually having the gun kill something. Rubbing it down with blood would be the equivalent of taking a starving man to a diner and letting him smell all the food but not actually eat it.

"KCHICKEEEEEEEEENS."
-The cannon's machine spirit.

[The Soodean Imperium]

What would happen if I was to fire live poultry out of a Napoleonic era muzzle loading cannon?

During the 16th century, some Mediterranean corsairs were known to tie prisoners in front of a loaded cannon's muzzle, point the barrel overboard, and fire the gun. The Ottomans were also said to have developed a cannon that specialized in hurling corpses over castle walls, but I don't know how much of this is truth and how much is propaganda/embellishment.

What you're discussing is a bizarre, unnecessary, and superfluous idea, and in the realms of NS where three-quarters of everyone is trying to be excessively brutal it's not really going to make you stand out as unique, but it's not entirely without precedent.

[Purpelia]

What would happen if I was to fire live poultry out of a Napoleonic era muzzle loading cannon?

During the 16th century, some Mediterranean corsairs were known to tie prisoners in front of a loaded cannon's muzzle, point the barrel overboard, and fire the gun. The Ottomans were also said to have developed a cannon that specialized in hurling corpses over castle walls, but I don't know how much of this is truth and how much is propaganda/embellishment.

What you're discussing is a bizarre, unnecessary, and superfluous idea, and in the realms of NS where three-quarters of everyone is trying to be excessively brutal it's not really going to make you stand out as unique, but it's not entirely without precedent.

I am not aiming to be brutal. I am aiming to present a bunch of superstitious people doing this very strange thing that makes no sense unless you are into their beliefs. But thanks for the info. It's just one of those strange things religious people do, like sniping off pieces of children's genitals or believing that if you commit suicide in the right forest you'll get to a better afterlife.

[The IASM]

I was wondering, would a mixture of VX gas and children's trifluride used as an anti-infantry weapon be practical at dealing with its intended targets?

[Aelarus]

Electrothermal-chemical guns. Yay or nay?

And if yay, how big and how small could we go? There's even talk of removing the need for external battery (maaaaaybe even able to be used in handhelds if that's pushed far enough).

[New Vihenia]

Electrothermal-chemical guns. Yay or nay?

And if yay, how big and how small could we go? There's even talk of removing the need for external battery (maaaaaybe even able to be used in handhelds if that's pushed far enough).

yes. The smallest is autocannon and the largest might be depend on what you actually need.

[Husseinarti]

If you are a Purpelian soldier AND a spiritual

I'd ask God just why he played this cruel joke on me and probably kill myself.

[Imperializt Russia]

Electrothermal-chemical guns. Yay or nay?

And if yay, how big and how small could we go? There's even talk of removing the need for external battery (maaaaaybe even able to be used in handhelds if that's pushed far enough).

Without external battery implies a power source in the ammunition itself does it not? This increases the cost of ammunition and likely makes for a substandard power source - it's now disposable rather than built to last.

An ETC gun is of questionable use much like a 140mm gun is of questionable use. ETC guns are just much more expensive and complex to develop, produce and field. While the 140 gun brings additional offerings to the table besides low cost for comparable performances.

[Purpelia]

If you are a Purpelian soldier AND a spiritual

I'd ask God just why he played this cruel joke on me and probably kill myself.

There is already an answer for that in Purpelian spirituality.

Basically all the living spirits of everything and everyone, from the grass to the rocks to the battle tanks are shards of the broken spirit of Ymir, the creator giant. And the cruel gods you speak of are the Norse gods that went and killed our ancestor so that they could take over.

[Scandinavian Nations]

Also, what aspect ratios are generally acceptable for a fighter? My current design has ~1.8 but I'd like to know what the practical limits are; I can explain more about the design if necessary of course.

The best way to go if you want it looked at in some depth with respect to what the design is meant to be is to put it up on NSD, as a WIP thread with everything you've decided on so far. Sure, the average time to response shorter here, but there's a 99% chance that if you don't get one in the first day, you won't get one at all.

Is this realistic?

Probably not. Why are you asking? These days, with peer review a rarity, few things on NS are.

Not unrealistic to nearly the extent of warranting the IGNORE Cannon however.
The price is mostly reasonable, the resolution is easily cleared up as a boastful claim, the endurance is ~2x off (loiter speed would be ~60% of maximum speed, hence ~12 hours of loiter), the empty/MTOW ratio is infeasible but not too insane.

I doubt that one personally. It's a claim bandied about with regards to current spy satellites but I'm not certain it's even possible.

The best-case resolution of current spy satellites is 15cm.

[Kranstentistan]

I cruise around these threads a lot, and I hold a fancy to user created military gear; I've always wanted to do that, but where to start? Where can I go to so I can learn more about this stuff?

[Yalos]

I cruise around these threads a lot, and I hold a fancy to user created military gear; I've always wanted to do that, but where to start? Where can I go to so I can learn more about this stuff?

Wikipedia is a good place to start.

[Allancia]

I cruise around these threads a lot, and I hold a fancy to user created military gear; I've always wanted to do that, but where to start? Where can I go to so I can learn more about this stuff?

As the person above said, Wikipedia. There's plenty of gear that you could conceivably use, but most of it is useless depending on the type of military you have. Wikipedia could help you single the invalids out.

[United Earthlings]

So, quick wars are always better than defense? That makes sense. The terrain is largely divided between open farmland and jungles, the former of which I can easily send heavy vehicles through, but the latter of which I'm stuck on what to use. Infantry would be able to move through the jungle the quickest, but they would be without armored support if they went alone. Are there any types of vehicles that are designed for use in jungles, because those seem like the most logical choice to use.

As counter-intuitive as it may seem, tanks can operate in jungles, it just varies depending on the exact type of jungle terrain. A tank in the 40 to 30 ton range should manage most situations just fine. Hell, even pressing a upgunned IFV into service would worked especially some of the modern CV90 variants armed with either a 105mm or 120mm gun. Utilize Proper tank-infantry cooperation and you'll have yourself both an effective defensive/offensive strategy at your disposal.

As for my land strategy, am I right to say that blitzkrieg (or some variant of it) would be best for this scenario?

&

So, do you have any advice for not repeating the Iran-Iraq War? Infrastructure isn't too good, but it's being improved. This conflict is effectively being paid for by the superpower puppeting the third world country, so costs aren't too much of an issue.

Ignoring the fact that there's not really a blitzkrieg tactic or strategy, given the political and territorial situation you and your puppet nations find themselves in I would say no.

To avoid repeating the Iran-Iraqi War, you'd probably be better off employing similar equipment, tactics and strategies as that employed by the SADF during it's decades long Border War with South-West Africa (now Namibia) and Angola. Good use of Special Forces, Airborne forces and mobile assault groups {the SADF mostly used 90mm/missile armed armored cars historically}; so depending on how many tanks you have operational and your willingness to commit them to major operations would determine what type of mobile groups you have.

As for strategy, quick wars always go the best, so I'll likely want to have a quick war, but I also definitely shouldn't neglect defenses. Most of the border is in a hilly jungle terrain, which would be easy to defend in naturally, but there is a valley in between the hills at one point full of farmland; that I expect to be a weak point in defenses.

If you would expand your thinking strategically, you would see that that valley between the hills is actually the strongest point of defense for your nation and not as one would suppose the hilly jungle terrain.

Furthermore, having a quick war or a long war is immaterial to the matter at hand as no war has a predetermined set length of time. What you should be or should have been focusing on is what are your nation's operational and political objectives? Time falls under the tactical category, the more important one is what is your overall strategy and how you intend to achieve your national political goals?

If I have a scout helicopter (Gazelle or Loach), attack helicopter (UK Apache), utility helicopter (Huey or Lynx) and lift helicopter (Chinook), have I got my rotary-wing bases covered or am I missing something?

Just off the top of my head you forgot a few military types to name just a few: Training, SAR, CSAR, MEDEVAC, VERTREP, ASW/ASuW, Firefighting? and finally not to mention any UASs you have.

[Rich and Corporations]

The claim of "reading a newspaper at 10km"?

I doubt that one personally. It's a claim bandied about with regards to current spy satellites but I'm not certain it's even possible.

I forget and unwilling to look up the statistics about optics at long range. Or maybe I saw a documentary on it. Anyway, there's actual physical limits, and I think the best one could manage is cross-reference the blur of newspaper pages with archived low resolution newspaper images.

As counter-intuitive as it may seem, tanks can operate in jungles, it just varies depending on the exact type of jungle terrain. A tank in the 40 to 30 ton range should manage most situations just fine. Hell, even pressing a upgunned IFV into service would worked especially some of the modern CV90 variants armed with either a 105mm or 120mm gun. Utilize Proper tank-infantry cooperation and you'll have yourself both an effective defensive/offensive strategy at your disposal.

A sufficient tree density can stop a tank however.

IMO, an upgunned IFV would be essentially as well armed and as expensive as the original Sherman, and as well armored as the original Sherman against the Panther.


On the Purpelian chicken sacrifice ritual: according to the Simpsons, you can shoot a Pig out of a dam, and it will "still be good."

[Gallan Systems]

If I have a scout helicopter (Gazelle or Loach), attack helicopter (UK Apache), utility helicopter (Huey or Lynx) and lift helicopter (Chinook), have I got my rotary-wing bases covered or am I missing something?

Yes, those can do basically anything you could want.

[Questers]

new model division

total personnel: 24,500
active: 14,500
reserve: 10,000

multirole division for FUTUR ARMI
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/870 ... vision.png

[Gallan Systems]

Are the faded units the one my Tau expies shot from two screens away?