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NS Military Realism Consultation Thread Type 08

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The Soodean Imperium
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NS Military Realism Consultation Thread Type 08

Postby The Soodean Imperium » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:24 pm



Well, because you asked for it, here it is:

Image

This thread is, in a nutshell, a place to discuss how to make your NS military more realistic. This can include everything from doctrines to design procedures, tactics to technology. For more specific discussion about aircraft, ground vehicles, warships, or infantry, there are also dedicated threads on these topics, which can be found further down this post.

Recommended Etiquette:

1. Read the OP. Whether you’re new to NS, or just new to the thread, it'll help you tell what MilRealism is all about. I've also included some helpful links on realism-related topics below, which people can refer back to as the thread progresses.

2. Be open to criticism. Anything you post here is open to be critiqued from a realistic perspective, sometimes a little harshly. If you don't want to play realistically, that’s your choice, but unless otherwise stated people will assume that you're looking for feedback. And if you do want to play realistically, then listening to what others tell you is a good place to start. For more information on what constitutes "realism," you can refer to the FAQs section.

3. At the same time, try to be constructive. The above is not an excuse to flame, troll, or otherwise act in an insulting way towards posters.1 While it's certainly tempting to make fun of the n00b who wants to make thermobaric bullet propellant, put an APS on a bomber, or ban autopilot landings, at least take the time to follow it up with an explanation of why that's a bad idea.

4. If you don’t know what you’re talking about, don’t give advice. To paraphrase the old Socratic adage, it’s better to know that you don’t know something than to not know it and think that you do. In other words, if you don't know, ask. Someone will tell you. Try to learn from what the more experienced players have to say, and use that knowledge to improve your understanding.*

5. All tech levels are welcome, so long as you are willing to treat them realistically. While MT (modern tech) is the most discussed, there are some people here who can give you advice on "hard FT," and others who can help you with a historical scenario. Just be aware that if your tech level relies on "it works because I want it to" (i.e., FanT, "soft FT") others will have a hard time giving useful advice.

6. This is F&NI, not F7. Long streams of spammy, chatty, or generally off-topic posts are fun for you and your pals, but they can be a little irritating to everyone else. Likewise, it’s appreciated if you spoiler large images, strings of large images, or very long writeups.

7. Forum rules still apply. No flaming, baiting, trolling, you get the idea. Discussion can get a little heated on occasion, but there is at least one moderator (Transnapastain) who regularly frequents these threads, and warnings, bans, and DEATs have taken place from time to time.

Frequently Asked Questions:

1. How many soldiers can I have? Wrong question. Instead, start by asking “How many soldiers do I need?” What are my nation’s strategic aims? Who is threatening me, or who do I need to threaten? Am I preparing to fight a major land war with a much larger adversary, or am I sending small peacekeeping units abroad to deliver aid and help suppress insurgencies? Only when you’ve answered questions like these should you move on to ask how much of that force you can afford to supply. Wikipedia’s list of countries by number of military and paramilitary personnel is a good place to see how real-life nations do this; note that none of the top six defense spenders around the world (Russia, China, US, etc) come anywhere near the "1% active forces" mark, while the countries near or above the 1% tend to be in “enemy at the gates” situations.

2. We've been EMP’d! Currently, the only way to produce an Electro-Magnetic Pulse of any useful strength is by detonating a nuclear weapon, typically in the upper atmosphere. Most military equipment is designed with EMP hardening to reduce its vulnerability to this overload, and most failures can be fixed fairly quickly by the operator. A temporary upset in the more complex equipment may create a brief window of vulnerability, and the civilian power grid will be severely damaged over a vast area; but the whole "jets falling from the sky, tanks stopping in their tracks, missiles self-destructing in midair" thing is mostly a Hollywood fantasy. More information on this can be found in the "helpful resources" section below.

3. Is [x] (idea, concept, tactic) a good idea? First, stop and ask yourself 'Has anyone thought of this before?' If the answer is yes, ask yourself why it's not common today. Why have centuries of engineers, theorists, strategists, tacticians, and politicians not considered it a good idea themselves? Has anything changed to suddenly make this idea practical when it wasn't before? Does it seem too good to be true?
Could another nation use this idea? Generally speaking, whatever one nation can develop it can be reasonably expected another nation can develop the same general concept. How effective would it be if they developed it? If it seems like something only your nation can use for some reason, there's likely something wrong with it.
Could anything go wrong? Does it pass the grin test? Put perhaps a bit more simply,2
Purpelia wrote:When looking at Wikipedia for fun stuff to use look at things that were a success. Not at things that were abandoned.


4. What makes something "realistic?" There's no single hard-and-fast definition of what constitutes "realism." It's certainly possible for a modern military to field an army of crossbowmen, but nobody would consider that realistic. Likewise, rape as a weapon of war is a deeply flawed strategy, but it would be considered realistic for ethnic-nationalist paramilitary fighters to engage in it. And while one can be expected to avoid the most egregious mistakes, it would be a Sisyphean undertaking to accurately model and predict all variables at stake in a modern war. Under the most commonly accepted definition, then, something can be considered "realistic" if it would make sense for a real-world military under the same conditions to do it; a better term might be "believable." If you want to make something outlandish but nonetheless physically possible, like The Corparation's Orion Starships and LRNSA, that's not necessarily out of bounds; but as with technology levels, it can be hard to hold a discussion with someone who's consistently falling back on "but it makes sense because reasons!"

5. Hey, I have a question about that "Longsword" ship.

NO.



Helpful Links and Other Resources

NS Military Realism Calculator Pack: compiled by Kyiv (The Kievan People)

Nuclear Weapons:
Atomic Rockets: Up for the challenge of “hard FT?” This site has everything you need and more.
Authoritative Capabilities of Nuclear Weapons: in two parts.
EMP Effects of Nuclear Weapons
Nuclear Weapons Effects from the FAS site
Effects of Nuclear Weapons Princeton University PDF/powerpoint

Naval Warfare:
New Vihenia’s Submarine Displacement Calculator: determine surfaced and submerged displacement for your submarines.
Naval Resources Page: a useful primer on how to conduct naval warfare realistically on NS.
Naval Weapons Site: a guide to naval weapons and technology from the 19th century to the present.

ORBATs and Organization:
Armoured Acorn Find ORBATs under the “references” tab; a better listing of vehicles than most, but doesn’t show personnel.
FM-100-2-3: The Soviet Army’s organization near the end of the Cold War; small inaccuracies throughout.
FM-100-60: Organization of the Heavy Mechanized OPFOR, a US “evolution” of the Soviet Army.
NATO Military Symbol Generator: Helpful for making unit symbols for organization charts and scenario maps.
FM-100-63: Organization of the Infantry-Based OPFOR. Think Iraq or Serbia instead of the USSR.
FM 3-21.21: The Stryker Brigade Infantry Battalion.
Shipbucket Organization page: A visual thinker? This has FD-scale images of RL countries’ platoons and companies.
TM-E 30-480: Japanese Army Organization in WWII
UK TOEs

Military Doctrine:
Breaking the Mold: Tanks in the Cities: For those who come here thinking MBTs don't belong in cities.
FM-100-2-1: US study of Soviet army doctrine; somewhat obsolete.
FM-100-2-2: Soviet warfare in special roles, as well as rear-area support and protection.
The Foundations of the Science of War: Some compiled works of Colonel JFC Fuller
TRADOC 350-14: Heavy Mechanized OPFOR Operational Art.

And finally, just for giggles:
The AeroGavin: Sparky in all his glory.

(If there's anything else you want me to include here, just post a link and let me know; I think it'll be helpful to new and old NSers alike if we can gather some of more resources like these).

Links to Other Threads:

Past Military Realism Threads:
NS Military Realism Consultation Thread, Sept 2011 – May 2012
NS Military Realism Consultation Thread #2, May 2012 – March 2013
NS Military Realism III, March 2013 – July 2013
NS Military Realism Consultation Thread #4, July 2013 – Jan 2014
NS Military Realism Consultation Thread #5, Jan 2014 – May 2014
NS Military Realism Consultation Thread #6, May 2014 – Sept 2014
NS Military Realism Mk. 7, Sept 2014 – Feb 2015

Other Threads in the Military Realism Family:
Military Ground Vehicles of your Nation: MBTs, IFVs, APCs, SPAAGs, and the like.
Your Nation’s Air Force: a place to talk about fighters, bombers, and aviation in general.
Your Nation’s Warships: nope, still no place for Longswords.
Non-Military Realism Consultation Thread: for things like police, government structure, and economics.
Infantry Discussion Thread: Now with 300% more DPRK.
Create Your Own Everything: No, it's not technically a “realism” thread, but it's a nice place to post vehicle or uniform illustrations.

Selection of the Next OP:
When the thread reaches 450 or so, I’ll put up the following template to begin the nomination process. Once nominations end, votes will be cast on the voting thread if Akasha permits it.

Code: Select all
[size=120]This is my Nomination.  There are many like it, but this one is mine.[/size]
[b]Nominee:[/b]


This OP by Soode. The last OP was a little sparse, so I decided to include some helpful links and guidelines. Most are more or less original, but some were copied verbatim from past Military Realism OPs. These are cited below, partly to credit the true authors but also to redirect any hate I get for putting them in there.

1: The Akasha Colony, Thread 4, taken from top paragraph with minor edits
2: The Akasha Colony, Thread 4, taken from FAQs section
Possibly others, but the other thread is reaching 500 and I'm in a hurry
Last edited by The Soodean Imperium on Wed Sep 16, 2015 6:36 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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ICly, this nation is now known as the Socialist Republic of Menghe (대멩 사회주의 궁화국, 大孟社會主義共和國). You can still call me Soode in OOC.

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The Corparation
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Postby The Corparation » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:24 pm

Repost from last thread:
Started work on the Airborne Carrier Version of LRNSA. And Yes I realize that an airborne aircraft carrier is a bad idea, but this is LRNSA, my current project from my Bad Things ListTM I mainly want some input on the fighter I'm working on.


LRNSA Airborne Resupply/Support vehicle:



As the long ranges and extended missions planned for LRNSA became a reality, the need for a means to transfer crew and cargo to and from the aircraft while it is in flight became apparent. Few regions have airports with the facilities to support nuclear aircraft, and even fewer are built to handle circulating fuel designs. Of those limited airfields, most lack runways large enough for LRNSA. This lack of runways means that it is not only impractical, but nearly impossible to divert the aircraft for a landing in the event that crew or cargo needs to be loaded or unloaded mid-mission. To solve this issue the LRNSA Airborne Resupply/Support vehicle (LARS) "Swallow" was created. LARS is a small twin engine jet transport capable of being launched and recovered by appropriately equipped LRNSA Variants in flight. LARS is capable of carrying up to eight passengers, one and a half tons of cargo, or a combination of crew and cargo. While the small payload of LARS is not enough to significantly extend a LRNSA's mission through resupply, it does allow for crew transfers and mail delivery while in flight, a role which serves both to increase morale, allow for medical evacuation and replacement of ill crew members as well as providing a means for more secure delivery of information.

In order to carry LARS, the aft cargo bay and the service decks immediately above it must be completely rebuilt. Instead of a single large cargo bay and separate upper service area, the area is split into a hangar bay capable of storing up to four LARS and a launch/recovery room. The hangar bay can carry up to four LARS all of which can be worked on in a shirt sleeve environment. The launch/recovery room is located where the rear cargo ramp would normally be located and is operated from the hangar by large sliding doors. The Launch/Recovery Bay is dominated by the Launch/Recovery Equipment and the Aircraft Hatch, which is located in the same place the aft cargo ramp would normally be. Locating the bay at the aft end of the aircraft allows for easy loading and unloading of aircraft while LRNSA is on the ground. The Launch Recovery Bay's equipment is suspended from the roof of the bay. The equipment consists of two primary components, the Guidance / Refueling Probe (GuRP) and the Aircraft Recovery Trapeze (ART). The Guidance /Refueling Probe is similar to the refueling flying boom mechanisms used by many large airborne tanker aircraft. Consisting of a long gimballed telescoping pole with control wings, the probe is extended into the airstream and "flown" by a to the inbound LARS by a LRNSA crew member. Once the probe has connected with the LARS, the probe begins to retract, drawing the LARS in closer to the LRNSA. Once the LARS is within range, the Aircraft recovery Trapeze is lowered around the GuRP and attaches to the LARS on the upper fuselage and wing roots. Once the system indicates that the connection is secure, the GuRP is disconnected from the aircraft. The GuRP is then retracted into the aircraft and moved to the side of the Launch/Recovery Bay. After the GuRP is secured, the ART is retracted into the Launch/Recovery Bay. The bay door is then closed and pressurization of the bay begins. After the bay has been pressurized, catwalks are extended from the sides of the bay around the aircraft. These catwalks allow for the unloading of crew and payload as well as performing any needed maintenance. After the crew and payload are offloaded the wings can be folded, and an interior crane system can be connected to the aircraft. This crane system is mounted on overhead tracks which allow it to move the aircraft into the storage hangar and secure it on a storage rack. To launch an aircraft, the interior crane brings a LARS out of the hangar and into the Launch/Recovery Bay. Once the aircraft is in the Launch/Recovery Bay, the hangar doors are closed, the aircraft's wings are unfolded, and the aircraft is loaded and fueled. After these preparations are complete, the ART is attached to the aircraft, the room is cleared of all personal and the Launch/Recovery Bay doors are opened. The ART then lowers the LARS out of the LRNSA, after which the engines are started. Once the engines are started, last minute checks are performed and the LARS is released to fly to its destination.

LARS Specifications:
Length:13.7 Meters
Wingspan:13.0 Meters (7.5 folded)
Height:4.1 Meters
Range:4,000 km
Top Speed:900 km/h
Propulsion:2 x _____ Turbofan Engines
Crew:2
Payload:-8 x Passengers
or
- 1500 kg



AN5K-C Airborne Aircraft Carrier:



The AN5K-C is an airborne aircraft carrier. Carrying an air wing consisting of two dozen aircraft, including 20 multi-role fighter jets, the AN5K-C allows an Air Force to rapidly deploy a fighter squadron anywhere in the world on short notice without the need to build or negotiate the use of air fields. IN addition to its fighter wing, the AN5K-C is also equipped to carry 4 LARS, using the same rear mounted launch / recovery and hangar bays as other variants.

The backbone of the AN5K-C's air wing is the Advance LRNSA parasite Fighter (ALF), a 4.5th generation single engine multirole fighter. Unlike most other airborne parasite fighters, ALF is a full size fighter designed to be comparable to or better than more conventional land based fighters of its size. The ALF utilizes a cranked-arrow delta wing, comparable to the F-16XL. Unlike the F-16XL however, the ALF features two vertical stabilizers located midway out along the wings. In order to reduce the amount of space needed for storage, ALF features folding wingtips, the entirety of the wings outboard of the twin vertical stabilizers are able to fold up vertically against the vertical stabilizers. The ALF also features a set of all-moving canards.

The engine is fitted with a two dimensional Thrust Vectoring nozzle. The Nozzle is also capable of reversing thrust while in flight, which allows for increased control of speed while docking.


For a parasite aircraft, ALF is heavily armed, capable of carrying up to 6,500 kg across 15 hard points as well as 30 mm revolver cannon with 250 rounds. There are four hard points under each wing and an additional five hard points on the fuselage. The two remaining hard points are wingtips launch rails for short range Air to Air Missiles. Six of the eight under wing hard points are rated to weapons of up to 350 kg, with the remaining two rated for 1000 kg, four of the fuselage stations are rated to 1000 kg, with the center line stations rates for 2000kg. The two heavy wing stations and center line fuselage station are "wet" to allow for the use of drop tanks. The 30mm Cannon is the same caliber as that used by the AN5K's ACES CIWS.

ALF comes in two variants, a single seat variant and a two seat trainer/strike variant. The two variants are the same size, with the two seat variant sacrificing fuel and the internal cannon to make room for the second seat.

The AN5K-C has two Launch Recovery Bays for its wing of ALFs. Located along the center line of the aircraft, forward of the reactor, the two bays are functionally identical. As with the LARS Launch Recovery Bay, each bay is equipped with a Guidance / Refueling Probe (GuRP) and an Aircraft Recovery Trapeze (ART). Both of these systems function as they do for LARS. As on LARS, the GuRP is deployed and connected to the ALF, and draws it into range of the ART. The ART moves the aircraft into the Launch /Recovery Bay which is then closed and pressurized. After bay pressurization the ALF has its wings folded and is moved via an overhead crane to storage. From the Rear Launch / Recovery Bay, the aircraft can be moved to one of two locations, a lift to the main hangar deck or to one of two side hangars located on either side of the aircraft lift Each of those two hangars has space for two ALFs, located one behind the other. For the Forward Launch /Recovery Bay, there is no space available for storage, so the aircraft is moved directly to the forward aircraft lift and then moved into the main hangar.The forward aircraft lift also has access to nose doors for the loading and unloading of aircraft while LRNSA is on the ground.

The main hangar bay is located above the Launch / Recovery Bays. The main hangar bay has space for 14 ALFs. The Alfs are moved around the main hangar via an overhead crane system which connects to the crane system of the lower deck via the aircraft lifts. The cranes for the system travel along vertical tracks in the hangar bay's ceiling, the tracks span lengthwise across the hangar and line up with storage locations for an ALF. As there are multiple tracks running parallel, there are multiple locations where the cranes can switch to a different track in order to access every storage location. It should be noted that due to to the cramped nature of the Main Hangar Bay, when all aircraft are aboard only half of of the aircraft are able to be moved directly to the aircraft lifts. To carry a full air wing requires an aircraft to be stored in the aircraft lifts.


ALF Specifications:
Length:15 Meters
Wingspan:11.8 Meters (6.7 folded)
Height:2.9 Meters (3.6 folded)
Range:750 km
Top Speed:Mach 2
Propulsion:1 x _____ Turbofan Engine
Crew:1 - 2
Armament:Up to 6,500 kg of Munitions across 15 Hardpoints:
- 2 x Wingtip Launch Rails for Short Range AAMs
-8 x Under wing Hardpoints
- 5 x Under body Hardpoints
- 1 x 30mm Revolver Cannon w/ 250 Rounds
Nuclear Death Machines Here (Both Flying and Orbiting)
Orbital Freedom Machine Here
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Mitheldalond
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Postby Mitheldalond » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:25 pm

Huzzah! New thread!

How hard would it be to add an anti-radiation seeker to an AIM-120. I assume switching its seeker out wouldn't be hard, but I'm not sure about adding one.

Also, does anyone know roughly what the RCS of the Eurofighter is?

EDIT: See Soode, I told you you'd do a good job.
Last edited by Mitheldalond on Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Yukonastan
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Postby Yukonastan » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:26 pm

Nuclear shaped charges against walls?
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United Marxist Nations
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Postby United Marxist Nations » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:26 pm

Tagging.
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New Oyashima
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Postby New Oyashima » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:37 pm

*nibbling*

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Insaeldor
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Postby Insaeldor » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:41 pm

So question, would a active Military numbering 33,000 be a proper fighting force to protect a nation of 12.2 million?
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Roski
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Postby Roski » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:47 pm

Insaeldor wrote:So question, would a active Military numbering 33,000 be a proper fighting force to protect a nation of 12.2 million?


Of 12.2 million forces?

Avoid that war at all costs.
I'm some 17 year old psuedo-libertarian who leans to the left in social terms, is fiercly right economically, and centrist in foriegn policy. Unapologetically Pro-American, Pro-NATO, even if we do fuck up (a lot). If you can find real sources that disagree with me I will change my opinion. Call me IHOP cause I'm always flipping.

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I am the Federal Republic of Roski. I have a population slightly over 256 million with a GDP of 13.92-14.25 trillion. My gross domestic product increases each year between .4%-.1.4%. I have a military with 4.58 million total people, with 1.58 million of those active. My defense spending is 598.5 billion, or 4.2% of my Gross Domestic Product.

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The United Remnants of America
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Postby The United Remnants of America » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:53 pm

It's risen.
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Erusuia
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Postby Erusuia » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:55 pm

:lol:

I should have asked this earlier, but it only really dawned on me to ask it now, what is the best way for fighter jets to engage helicopters? Are jets generally able to beat helicopters?
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Roski
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Postby Roski » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:55 pm

Erusuia wrote::lol:

I should have asked this earlier, but it only really dawned on me to ask it now, what is the best way for fighter jets to engage helicopters? Are jets generally able to beat helicopters?


Longer range AA Missile
I'm some 17 year old psuedo-libertarian who leans to the left in social terms, is fiercly right economically, and centrist in foriegn policy. Unapologetically Pro-American, Pro-NATO, even if we do fuck up (a lot). If you can find real sources that disagree with me I will change my opinion. Call me IHOP cause I'm always flipping.

Follow my Vex Robotics team on instagram! @3921a_vex

I am the Federal Republic of Roski. I have a population slightly over 256 million with a GDP of 13.92-14.25 trillion. My gross domestic product increases each year between .4%-.1.4%. I have a military with 4.58 million total people, with 1.58 million of those active. My defense spending is 598.5 billion, or 4.2% of my Gross Domestic Product.

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Yukonastan
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Postby Yukonastan » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:57 pm

Roski wrote:
Insaeldor wrote:So question, would a active Military numbering 33,000 be a proper fighting force to protect a nation of 12.2 million?


Of 12.2 million forces?

Avoid that war at all costs.


No.

33K population to defend 12.2 million civs. At a rough guess, that's 0.25% of the population. While it's low, it's certainly adequate for a Western-style professional army.
Last edited by Yukonastan on Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The United Remnants of America
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Postby The United Remnants of America » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:58 pm

Yukonastan wrote:
Roski wrote:
Of 12.2 million forces?

Avoid that war at all costs.


No.

33K population to defend 12.2 million civs. At a rough guess, that's 0.25% of the population. While it's low, it's certainly adequate for a Western-style professional army.

Depends. How many wars you expect getting into?
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Roski
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Postby Roski » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:58 pm

Yukonastan wrote:
Roski wrote:
Of 12.2 million forces?

Avoid that war at all costs.


No.

33K population to defend 12.2 million civs. At a rough guess, that's 0.25% of the population. While it's low, it's certainly adequate for a Western-style professional army.


Oh

didn't read that very clearly.
I'm some 17 year old psuedo-libertarian who leans to the left in social terms, is fiercly right economically, and centrist in foriegn policy. Unapologetically Pro-American, Pro-NATO, even if we do fuck up (a lot). If you can find real sources that disagree with me I will change my opinion. Call me IHOP cause I'm always flipping.

Follow my Vex Robotics team on instagram! @3921a_vex

I am the Federal Republic of Roski. I have a population slightly over 256 million with a GDP of 13.92-14.25 trillion. My gross domestic product increases each year between .4%-.1.4%. I have a military with 4.58 million total people, with 1.58 million of those active. My defense spending is 598.5 billion, or 4.2% of my Gross Domestic Product.

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The Soodean Imperium
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Postby The Soodean Imperium » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:01 pm

Roski wrote:
Insaeldor wrote:So question, would a active Military numbering 33,000 be a proper fighting force to protect a nation of 12.2 million?


Of 12.2 million forces?

Avoid that war at all costs.

I'm pretty sure this is referring to the population of the nation being protected.

Insaeldor wrote:So question, would a active Military numbering 33,000 be a proper fighting force to protect a nation of 12.2 million?

As the *brand new OP page* indicates, it really depends on what you're trying to protect that nation against. 33,000 (out of 12.2 million) should be fine if you have peaceful neighbors and little risk of internal violence, and it's roughly on par with most European countries.
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Cumbrias
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Postby Cumbrias » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:04 pm

Insaeldor wrote:So question, would a active Military numbering 33,000 be a proper fighting force to protect a nation of 12.2 million?


In my opinion it is entirely reasonable to have a military of that size. It is very similar to New Zealand who have a ballpark of around 10,000 active and reserve to a population of around 4.25 million. However, it must be noted that they also have the advantage of being incredibly remote and have a fair number of allies.
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Spirit of Hope
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Postby Spirit of Hope » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:11 pm

Yukonastan wrote:Nuclear shaped charges against walls?

Doesn't make much sense.


Erusuia wrote::lol:

I should have asked this earlier, but it only really dawned on me to ask it now, what is the best way for fighter jets to engage helicopters? Are jets generally able to beat helicopters?


Any type of AA missiles a jet uses against a jet can be used against a helicopter. The jet will happily kill the helicopter 999/1000 times without the helicopter even threatening the jet.

Insaeldor wrote:So question, would a active Military numbering 33,000 be a proper fighting force to protect a nation of 12.2 million?

Depends on what you want it for. But it sounds like a good base for a defensive force.

New Oyashima wrote:*nibbling*

Oh Yeah.

Mitheldalond wrote:Huzzah! New thread!

How hard would it be to add an anti-radiation seeker to an AIM-120. I assume switching its seeker out wouldn't be hard, but I'm not sure about adding one.

Also, does anyone know roughly what the RCS of the Eurofighter is?

EDIT: See Soode, I told you you'd do a good job.


Probably not that hard.

Reduced but I don't know by how much.

Also did you see my last post in the old thread in regards to the fleet stuff?
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Roski
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Postby Roski » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:16 pm

I'm some 17 year old psuedo-libertarian who leans to the left in social terms, is fiercly right economically, and centrist in foriegn policy. Unapologetically Pro-American, Pro-NATO, even if we do fuck up (a lot). If you can find real sources that disagree with me I will change my opinion. Call me IHOP cause I'm always flipping.

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Die Erworbenen Namen
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Postby Die Erworbenen Namen » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:17 pm

Okay, so, if a helicopter is attacked by jets, what's it's best options? (Besides panicking and running around in the cabin)
The beatings will continue. Regardless of morale.

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Postby Roski » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:18 pm

Die erworbenen Namen wrote:Okay, so, if a helicopter is attacked by jets, what's it's best options? (Besides panicking and running around in the cabin)


Er... quickly IR flare and hope you've got additional air support nearby. Specifically a friendly jet.
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Die Erworbenen Namen
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Postby Die Erworbenen Namen » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:20 pm

I've got... Maybe five, ten APCs, plus ground troops. A few may have Starstreaks. Other than the expected (detection, chaff, maneuver, flares, etc, counterattack, etc.,), there isn't much to do, right?
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Roski
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Postby Roski » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:21 pm

Die erworbenen Namen wrote:I've got... Maybe five, ten APCs, plus ground troops. A few may have Starstreaks. Other than the expected (detection, chaff, maneuver, flares, etc, counterattack, etc.,), there isn't much to do, right?


Other than fly as far away as quick as you can, pretty much.
I'm some 17 year old psuedo-libertarian who leans to the left in social terms, is fiercly right economically, and centrist in foriegn policy. Unapologetically Pro-American, Pro-NATO, even if we do fuck up (a lot). If you can find real sources that disagree with me I will change my opinion. Call me IHOP cause I'm always flipping.

Follow my Vex Robotics team on instagram! @3921a_vex

I am the Federal Republic of Roski. I have a population slightly over 256 million with a GDP of 13.92-14.25 trillion. My gross domestic product increases each year between .4%-.1.4%. I have a military with 4.58 million total people, with 1.58 million of those active. My defense spending is 598.5 billion, or 4.2% of my Gross Domestic Product.

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Spirit of Hope
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Postby Spirit of Hope » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:25 pm

Roski wrote:
Die erworbenen Namen wrote:I've got... Maybe five, ten APCs, plus ground troops. A few may have Starstreaks. Other than the expected (detection, chaff, maneuver, flares, etc, counterattack, etc.,), there isn't much to do, right?


Other than fly as far away as quick as you can, pretty much.

It can land. ANd the crew can run away from the big sitting target.

If a helicopter is attacked by a jet, it can use flares, chaff and ECM. But those aren't that likely to generate a miss. It isn't going to maneuver out of the way, and it isn't going to run away. In a full scale manuver war helicopters are probably going to drop like flies as jets and air defense take them out.
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Die Erworbenen Namen
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Postby Die Erworbenen Namen » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:27 pm

I'm guessing that adding a MALD to the payload would be beneficial in enemy territory, no?
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Postby Spirit of Hope » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:30 pm

Die erworbenen Namen wrote:I'm guessing that adding a MALD to the payload would be beneficial in enemy territory, no?

Maybe somewhat but probably not that much. Honestly it probably wouldn't be worth the payload loss. If you want to operate helicopters in a high end maneuver battlefield you have to be really careful with them.

Helicopters should be used to exploit holes in enemy defenses, not to make them. You should combine them with attempts to gain local air superiority so enemy jets have other things to worry about, and carry out SEAD missions to give air defense something else to worry about.
Fact Book.
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