Infantry Discussion Thread 6: True Korea Edition

[Tekeristan]

Would there be any advantages of using a 9mm rifle round compared to the 5.56x39 / 6.5 rounds I plan to use?

[Spirit of Hope]

Would there be any advantages of using a 9mm rifle round compared to the 5.56x39 / 6.5 rounds I plan to use?

Better range and penetration. Though it will weigh more and you probably don't need more range or penetration if you are doing the 5.56x39 / 6.5 rounds right.

[Tekeristan]

Would there be any advantages of using a 9mm rifle round compared to the 5.56x39 / 6.5 rounds I plan to use?

Better range and penetration. Though it will weigh more and you probably don't need more range or penetration if you are doing the 5.56x39 / 6.5 rounds right.

How do I do them right? <:P

[Purpelia]

Better range and penetration. Though it will weigh more and you probably don't need more range or penetration if you are doing the 5.56x39 / 6.5 rounds right.

How do I do them right? <:P

My advice to you is that if you don't know what you are doing you should just copy an existing army. Pick any of the random 5.56mm rifles out there that's not a G36 or any AK variant in 5.45x39mm and use that. There is nothing to be gained from eking out +1 extra damage or something. The only real reason to go custom is if you are like me and are doing it for the lore.

[Spirit of Hope]

Better range and penetration. Though it will weigh more and you probably don't need more range or penetration if you are doing the 5.56x39 / 6.5 rounds right.

How do I do them right? <:P

Use one of the existing variants of those rounds that has the range and penetration you require. I, unlike many others here, am not a walking encyclopedia of different small arms bullets.

[Imperializt Russia]

Would there be any advantages of using a 9mm rifle round compared to the 5.56x39 / 6.5 rounds I plan to use?

Yes. There would be advantages to using the lower-calibre cartridges as well.

It is a complex tradeoff where the utility of the advantages are not well-defined or demonstrably useful.

[Tekeristan]

Nyet, for the thingy we aren't doing " Damage+1 ", plan to be pretty realistic.

[Purpelia]

You know you want to.

[Imperializt Russia]

Nyet, for the thingy we aren't doing " Damage+1 ", plan to be pretty realistic.

Technically speaking, in "realism", your infantry would not be able to properly discern any real difference in performance between two widely-used rifle cartridges.
They might note anecdotes about performance - the infamous panning of 5.56mm ammunition in Iraq and Afghanistan by troops for few reasons troops could actually explain. That'd be it.

Any grievance troops claim to have with ammunition isn't really related to its broader usefulness. 5.56 for example (in the AR-15) provides controllable fully-automatic fire, which is useful for small infantry units suppressing opponent units. The 7.62x39mm cartridge shares the same bullet diameter as the older 7.62x54mmR cartridge, likely for reasons that it could share the same (or adapted) manufacturing tools for production of rifle barrels and ammunition. The later 5.45mm cartridge that replaced the 7.62x39mm cartridge was an all-new design that shares similarities with 5.56mm's capabilities.

No modern war has been won or lost by what cartridge either side had or even what weapon. In the broader sense of the war, rather than individual firefights by handfuls of men, neither has any real impact.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

Quick someone get galla's post about the Russian tank commander.

[Imperializt Russia]

Quick someone get galla's post about the Russian tank commander.

Which one?

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

Quick someone get galla's post about the Russian tank commander.

Which one?

The one where he kicks the dumb Ukranian in the head and then runs over the American.

[Dostanuot Loj]

Mayhaps.

A society that has space marines would have an understanding of the impact of gravity bordering the trivial and would certainly pursue one of the two options.

It's definitively the way I'd do it. A space rifle after all has to be capable of firing on any number of potential battlefields. And having the user switch between a million buttons or type out codes, turn dials etc. gets cumbersome.

You two are grossly over thinking and over complicating this.
First, I did say MT, and by MT what I mean to say is "Have been operating since the mid-1980s".
Second, while ranges in space are huge, I'm not talking about long ranges or even inter-planetary romps. EO/Lunar operations exclusively.
Over-shooting the target a few hundred meters away is not likely, especially if you upgrade to programmable burst munitions in the 2010s.

This is quite simply: Ignore the practicality of even doing this to begin with, what would be the best way to realistically be already doing it today if someone were to do it.

Obviously this is just for epic gunfights outside the ISS ala CoD:Ghosts.

[Gallia-]

Which one?

The one where he kicks the dumb Ukranian in the head and then runs over the American.

jenny is not americunt not fat enough axaxaxa ))))))))))))))))

Nyet, for the thingy we aren't doing " Damage+1 ", plan to be pretty realistic.

Technically speaking, in "realism", your infantry would not be able to properly discern any real difference in performance between two widely-used rifle cartridges.
They might note anecdotes about performance - the infamous panning of 5.56mm ammunition in Iraq and Afghanistan by troops for few reasons troops could actually explain. That'd be it.

Any grievance troops claim to have with ammunition isn't really related to its broader usefulness. 5.56 for example (in the AR-15) provides controllable fully-automatic fire, which is useful for small infantry units suppressing opponent units..

1) Infantry can quite readily tell the difference between cartridges, from barrier penetration to accuracy at range and even terminal effects. They can't adequately articulate these concerns because they aren't ballisticians, but they're not idiots. USian soldiers know the difference between 5,56mm NATO and 7,62mm NATO quite well, even if they want something that combines the best attributes of both.

2) No one uses automatic fire except the belt-fed machine gun. Grievances against 5,56mm are not related to its weight or recoil, either.

No modern war has been won or lost by what cartridge either side had or even what weapon. In the broader sense of the war, rather than individual firefights by handfuls of men, neither has any real impact.

clearly youve never rped on ns xaxaxaxa

Jens Jacques "Jenny" Jenssen clenched his buttocks as the BGM-71E Tube-Launched Optically Tracked Wire Guided 2A (TOW-2A) missile floated downrange to a maximum range of 3,750 meters towards an enemy T-80UM-1 main battle tank equipped with with a 2A46 125mm bore two-piece ammunition, autoloaded main gun, Kontakt-5 "heavy" (anti-kinetic energy/chemical energy penetrator) explosive reactive armour (ERA).

The main difference between the T-80U and -UM was marginal, only incorporating a new form of thermal imager, the Buran passive night fighting sight, to replace the old Luna infrared searchlight that was part of the 1A46 fire control system since the 1970s. The -UM-1 was a greater improvement, including a brand new diesel engine, a new main gun (2A46-M4) using the same two-piece 125mm ammunition as the 2A46 on Ukrainian models, and the "Arena" active defense system. The ADS was capable of shooting down even the fearsome BGM-71E TOW-2A tandem-charge HEAT missile, which otherwise would have cut through the armour of the T-80UM like a hot knife through butter.

JENNY'S GREAT FEAR WAS FELT BY TANK COMMANDER KALUGIN OF 191ST INDEPENDENT GUARDS TANK REGIMENT. HE SMELL FEAR LIKE SHIT ON BOOT OF CONSCRIPT SON OF FARMER. HE YELL AT KAZAKH MUSLIM GUNNER AND KICK MUSLIM TRASH IN HEAD, "YOU SHOOT," THEN TURN ON STRONK T-80UM1 "BARS" АРЕНА PROTECTION SYSTEM. SLOW MISSILE NO MATCH FOR SOVIET STEEL AND WEAK DECADENT WESTERN GIRLY MAN NO MATCH FOR SOVIET SHELL!

Jenny watched through the Improved Target Acquisition System (ITAS) as the missile continued to fly through its target. A puff of smoke came from the T-80UM1 in his sights, and he could feel a warm trickle down his leg. In this frigid climate, wet underwear could easily stick to the skin and cause frostbite.

'Damn upper brass, the Army always goes for the lowest bidder in garment contracts,' He muttered, shaking with fear. He remembered a time before the M90A5C Undergarment, Field, Olive, For The Use Of was adopted, the M90A5B model was grossly superior. It featured wool stitching, letting you keep your jimmies warm and toasty despite any urinary bladder control issues. He felt overwhelming relief when the 125mm 3OF26M high explosive fin stabilised (HEFS) shell impacted 218.73 yards (200 meters) in front of him.

The BGM-71E TOW-2A missile continued its lofty flight, flying slightly above the height of the tank to attack its weak upper armour.

'XAXAXAXAXAXAXA!' COMMANDER KALUGIN GIVE BIG LAUGH LIKE COMRADE LENIN, CHUCKLING AS SLOW WESTERN MISSILE FLY TO HIS TANK. HE WATCH IN SHOCK AS DUMB KAZAKH GUNNER MISS FIRST SHOT! "YOU MISS! IDIOT!" KAZAKH GUNNER MUTTER SOMETHING IN KAZAKH FOR HE NOT SPEAK RUSSIAN LIKE COMMANDER KALUGIN! KALUGIN HIT HIM IN HEAD WITH FOOT, KNOCKING SENSE INTO HIM TO USE MISSILE TO SHOOT MISSILE!

Jenny's fear had now reached a boiling point. The missile was still two seconds away from the T-80UM1 "Snow Leopard" main battle tank of the 191st Independent Guards Motor Rifle Tank Division Regiment Battalion, and the artillery was coming in heavy. Jenny was a dedicated soldier who did what was asked though, and as men and soldiers fled from the shells raining down, Jenny kept his steely eyes locked on the tank.

Another puff of smoke vomited forth a bright spawn from the gun breech, like a chicken from an egg. This time the 125mm 9M119M "Refleks" missile, commonly called the AT-11 "Sniper" by NATO troops, was flying towards him. It was normally issued three per platoon, with the platoon leader's tank receiving all three of the missiles. Jenny knew he was dealing with a platoon leader. Jenny's great fear was now exasperated (sp?) the great billowing cloud of terror forming over Jenny's head like the leaking urine from his unbloused pants leg. The BGM-71E TOW-2A continued to fly towards its target, now only one second away.

KALUGIN GIVE GREAT LURCH WHEN MISSILE NEARLY HIT TANK. LOUD SOUNDS FILL CREW COMPARTMENT WITH ECHOES OF METAL HITTING STONK T-80UM1 COMPOSITE ARMOUR AS WESTERN DECADENT MISSILE FALL SHORT OF STRONK T-80UM-1 "BARS" MAIN BATTLE TANK AND SPRAY ARMOUR WITH FRAGMENTS OF WEAK ALUMINUM ALLOY INSTEAD OF STRONK PIG IRON!

'XAXAXAXAXA!' LAUGHED KALUGIN, KNOWING HIS MISSILE POSSESS 5 KILOMETER MAXIMUM RANGE COMPARED TO WEAK AMERICAN TOW MISSILE BEING ONLY 4000 METER RANGE.

RUSSIA STRONK!

Jenny's heart jumped into his throat when the missile wire cut. The BGM-71E TOW-2A missile fell from the sky and hit the ground. He knew he had missed, he could hear Commander Kalugin's great bellowing from within the tank from here.

The 9M119M "Refleks" hit the BGM-71E TOW-2A launching post as Jenny ducked into a foxhole dug with the Mark Six Navy Model Explosive Foxhole Digger a day previously avoiding certain death. He waited now, for Kalugin to come and finish the fight.

COMMANDER KALUGIN KICK DRIVER IN HEAD. DUMB UKRAINIAN MAN WHINE SOMETHING ABOUT PAIN BUT KALUGIN YELL AT HIM TO SHUT UP AND DRIVE. HE DO SO!

Jenny buried his face in the ground. The path ahead was actually protected by a Model 82 Mark V W80 Atomic Demolition Munition. The combat engineers had emplaced (sp?) the day before, to protect against the 191st Combat Independent Breaching Assault Armoured Task Force Brigade Battalion Division Guards Motor Rifles from penetrating Jenny's thin, virgin line.

Commander Kalugin's tank disappeared in a flash of white light and a large mushroom cloud enveloped the battlefield, blocking out the sun and casting a great shadow over NATO lines. They were safe, for now.

COMMANDER KALUGIN CRUSH "JENNY" WITH STRONK T-80UM1 "BARS" MAIN BATTLE TANK LIKE BABUSHKA CRUSH FLY WITH SWATTER!

((OOC: NATO FANBOY GODMOD TO VICTORY XAXAXAXAXA JUST LIKE REAL LIFE XAXAXAXA!))

[Imperializt Russia]

I wouldn't want to gunfight anywhere near the ISS, especially not with Carl Gustavs.
Fragments?

[Korva]

Quick someone get galla's post about the Russian tank commander.

Which one?

viewtopic.php?p=18981608#p18981608

[The Grand Imperium of Man]

I wouldn't want to gunfight anywhere near the ISS, especially not with Carl Gustavs.
Fragments?

Won't that create a shit ton of vary deadly orbiting fragments that could peirce the station?

[Dostanuot Loj]

I wouldn't want to gunfight anywhere near the ISS, especially not with Carl Gustavs.
Fragments?

That depends on if you want to keep the ISS. As on, which side of the gunfight you are on.

Once again, ignore the practicality of why it's being done. It's a thought exercise on how it could be done.

[Dostanuot Loj]

Which one?

viewtopic.php?p=18981608#p18981608

Is significantly funnier when you remember that T-80 commander can't physically reach either the gunner or driver.

[Gallia-]

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopi ... #p18981608

Is significantly funnier when you remember that T-80 commander can't physically reach either the gunner or driver.

Clearly he's taller than the 3' 2" "requirement" that IDT thinks it is.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopi ... #p18981608

Is significantly funnier when you remember that T-80 commander can't physically reach either the gunner or driver.

Not with that attitude he can't.

[Gallia-]

Flexibility of a noodle is an important requirement for a tank commander.

And F-14 RIOs.

[Dostanuot Loj]

Flexibility of a noodle is an important requirement for a tank commander.

And F-14 RIOs.

Vital equipment on Soviet/Russian tanks.

[Radicchio]

So if as you say there are little or no perceivable differences between ammunitions (like the 5.56x 45 NATO and 7.62x51 NATO) then is wouldnt matter at all if i issued the 30 cal battle rifle instead of the 22 cal assault rifle. I could just add a PT requirement to my infantry that says they have to be able to hump the extra weight of the FAL plus 14 loaded magazines of the 30 cal ALONG with a belt of 30 for the machinegunner and then i will have ammunition commonality with my machinegun and the infantry won't notice the difference... Right?

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

Refer back to the part of galla's post about infantry being able to understand the differences but not the implications.