Infantry Discussion Thread 6: True Korea Edition

[Sediczja]

(also, what's an MMU?)

I believe it's one of those jetpack-looking things that astronauts use to move around in space.

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Speaking of ranks, I think I'll retcon my whole structure. Or at least give it some new art.

[Puzikas]

One of my favorite things is to murder my unit structure whenever there's a shiny new toy to add.

Or when I'm bored.

Or really any time.

[Imperializt Russia]

One of my favorite things is to murder my unit structure whenever there's a shiny new toy to add.

Or when I'm bored.

Or really any time.

You should see my old unit structures.
http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/ ... opic=10574

[Yukonastan]

You'd need smart optics whose ballistic-plotting systems need to be able to dialled for different levels of gravity.

Hit the button for Mars instead of the Moon? Whoops, you've embarrassed yourself with a four hundred metre overshoot, I'm afraid.
(also, what's an MMU?)

Would it not be a better idea to just have a computerized accelerometer take care of that for you? Put the weapon on the ground, click the calibrate button and wait for a beep.

Won't work in orbit. You'd need to know the surface gravity and the altitude of your orbit before it could shoot accurately in microgravity. (Of course nothing precludes laser homing in spersch.)

[Purpelia]

Won't work in orbit. You'd need to know the surface gravity and the altitude of your orbit before it could shoot accurately in microgravity. (Of course nothing precludes laser homing in spersch.)

Well of course the system would not work in orbit. I thought I cleared that much up when I said it needs to be placed on the ground. Why on earth would you even need to fire infantry hand held weapons in orbit though? Seriously, I just can not imagine any realistic scenario for this.

In fact, I can barely imagine a scenario where handheld weapons larger than a sidearm make sense at all. When fighting on other planetary bodies with less gravity than earth artillery, especially in the form of mortars becomes far more useful than an RPG. I imagine warfare on the moon would be entirely a case of moon buggies rigged up with 12cm mortars whizzing around shooting stuff from 60km away. And in space placing guns on what ever space craft you are using to get around makes a lot more sense than trying to hike up to enemy satellites and shoot them.

[Immoren]

[Spreewerke]

Let me fix all of this.

Does the trigger, stock, and iron-sight contribute a lot to round groupings?

If so, what can I do with a standard AK-10 when it comes to the above three parts?

Assuming you mean the AK-10x, which is a derivative of the venerable AK74, you can do quite a lot.

Trigger: Tighten up the break

That is not even a thing.

lighten the trigger spring

This could lead to failures-to-fire due to the trigger "spring" actually just being both ends of the hammer spring. So in order to weaken the trigger spring, you are weakening the hammer spring, and this could result in it wearing out faster, meaning light primer strikes, meaning failures to fire.

file all mating surfaces to a mirror finish, et cetera.

This would help, but this means you are lightening your trigger pull. Get it too light and your rifle will go off if you drop it and it lands butt-down. A hair trigger is never a good idea for a combat weapon. I think my AK's trigger is ~4lbs., and that is pushing it.

Alternatively install an aftermarket trigger pack built to inherently higher tolerances. Timney is working on that, although you might need to modify your AK to get it to fit.

See previous.

Stock, there isn't really a lot you can do in that regard, simply because of how the stock fits into the rear trunnion.

No. This is wrong.

There are countless stock types fitting AK stock trunnions.

The best thing is a solid steel custom trunnion to which you attach a solid oak or maple stock (over a steel tube or something else to rigidly mount it), or maybe even fancy laminate if you want to go all the way.

Or just install a not-shit stock in the regular trunnion. In my experience, the standard AK buttstock is fine. If LOP is too short, throw on a pad. If comb height is too short, do what the US military does and just tape foam to the stock.

As for sights, you'd be looking at a good (preferably barrel slash trunnion mounted) red dot or similar sight

Use the receiver dovetail.

if you're going for irons, go with an HK-style drum and post, with the post being a National Match style post.

If you must, just replace the rear sight with a peep sight. See Krebs Customs.

Even then, the AK has loose tolerances by design (this is what allows it to shoot while full of sand, mud, the blood of your enemies, or twinkie) and you can build a far better one if you tighten up the bolt, bolt carrier, trunnion, barrel, and chamber tolerances. It won't be a sub-MOA at a kilometre piece, but it'll be far more than adequate for a designated marksman.

The Yugoslavian M76 is chambered in 7.92x57mm IS and gets, routinely, 1MOA. It really doesn't look all that different from your standard AK other than it having a milled receiver. Even then, your standard AK-103 is going to get ~2.0-2.5MOA. Most of it comes down to ammunition and the person pulling the trigger.

I meant to say AK-103....Oh well.

What do you mean when you say "tighten up the break"? How do I lighten the trigger spring? When you say "file all the mating surfaces" you mean grind the parts that rub against each other so that there is less friction?
Stock AK trigger is fine. They are better than military M16 triggers, by-far. Nothing needs to be changed, especially if you use Chinese-pattern triggers.

What is a "trunnion"? I specialize in using M-16ish stocks, because I think it's a better shape (Yes, it folds). Does the plastic the M16 use behave any differently from the fiberglass the AK-100 series uses?
The trunnion is a block of steel that is either built into the receiver (milled) or riveted into place inside the receiver (stamped). The rear trunnion on an AK is the assembly in which the buttstock is attached. The front trunnion on an AK is the barrel trunnion where, you guessed it, the barrel is installed.

About the sights, I understand to a degree what "drum and post sights are"; because I have seen the sights to the HK small arms. My high end AKs use "SCARish" sights, but I have been thinking of having lower ones that are more affordable to fit the model. I never found the G-3 sights comfortable to look down, is there a reason why you picked them?

Can I have a vague idea how to "tighten up the bolt, bolt carrier, trunnion, barrel, and chamber tolerances"?

On the same note, would making the bolt out of a lighter but just as strong alloy speed up the rifle that much or would that require fiddling with the piston-action?
There is no need to speed up the AK's rate of fire. 600RPM is practically perfect for an assault rifle.

The very best triggers are said to break as smoothly as a glass rod, ie they are not at all gritty. When I say tighten up the break I mean just that. Fiddle with the trigger/hammer linkage until there is almost no friction between 'em. Make the hooks mirror-smooth, wherever the trigger parts connect other parts. This includes the hammer and sear.

While this will work, see above.

To lighten up a coil spring you cut off links. For an AK-alike spring, you need to bend the end that contacts the trigger.

All this would do is cause the trigger to fail to reset.

File and hone every mating surface in the trigger pack to reduce friction and grit. It takes work, but it massively improves your trigger.

All you have to do is polish the hammer ear and trigger hook.

The real problem with the AK style trunnions is that they're optimized for mass production. This means they MAY fit looser than they should.

No. Absolutely not. This is incorrect. AK trunnions are riveted into place. If you ever find an AK with a loose trunnion, it isn't a design flaw, it's a rifle that was built as a piece of shit from the start.

The second thing is that all AKs are sidefolders, which also slightly reduces stock rigidity. If you create a custom block for that specific receiver, to mount a fixed stock, you have a more rigid stock. Being rigid is good for lrecision stocks.

My sidefolding stock is just as rigid, if not moreso, than any of my fixed stocks.

Why HK-style aperture sights? Because the human eye is VERY good at aligning circles. Line up rear hole with front sight hood, hold post on target, and (assuming zero is good) your bullet is going to hit at the top of that post.

k

If you want real precision from an AK, you need to have a very tight fitting (ie low tolerance) bolt and barrel, so the bullet flies as straight as possible, and so the chamber is the same every time. By design, the AK isn't such a low-tolerance precision beast. It's designed to enjoy every speck of sand and dirt that finds its way in. You'll need to replace the bolt, barrel, and trunnion, to get a vastly tighter lockup when the bolt is forward.

All you'd really need to do is ensure lock-up is more consistent and use not-shit ammunition. Since the M76 was milled, the barrel trunnion was built into the receiver, meaning the receiver and bolt were pretty much hand-fit for one another (or at least more closely fit than a stamped receiver may be, but modern stamped rifles are practically just as accurate).

In terms of replacing the bolt: It's not a lot of difference. If you want to really up the AK firing rate, you time it to use more gas and you block the first two vent holes in the gas tube.

The vent holes in the gas tube haven't been there since 1958. Vent holes are on the gas block, and the AK is already over-gassed by design. That is part of what makes it so reliable. You can see this being proven by the fact an AK will cycle without the gas tube installed. All the gas tube does is protect the piston and help guide it back into the gas block itself.

If you want it to be more reliable and longer lasting, you dial the gas down to the point that the rifle reliably cycles, but only just.

I would venture to say so, yes. This would also give less felt recoil.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

(Image)

Not even a wiggle.

[Tekeristan]

Yesterday, I was talking to a friend of mine about bullet sizes for a thing we plan to do. ( Making a little sci-fi universe )

While I'm going for the in between of the 5.56 and the 7.62, he is going for a 9mm rifle round ( Not the pistol round )

Could someone help me with these 2 rounds?

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

That depends. What kind of 'help' do you need? Do you need someone to make the rounds? I could do that.

[Imperializt Russia]

The 7.62x39mm cartridge, as you might expect, offers a much greater bullet weight to the 5.56 or 5.45mm cartridges. A 9mm rifle cartridge, one such example being the 9x39mm subsonic cartridge, offers an even greater bullet weight.

9mm rifle cartridges such as the Brennecke family offer greater still bullet weights, but also with good performance at range.

[Tekeristan]

That depends. What kind of 'help' do you need? Do you need someone to make the rounds? I could do that.

Sure.
We're also trying to discuss the Pro's - Con's between our 2 bullets.
Sadly, I know very little about ballistics.

[Grafulk Shayneshall]

I'm deploying Exoskeletons, and the general features of the Future Solider 2050 project. Any suggestions on pictures I could use as a model for one of my infantrymen wearing integrated armour systems?

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

That depends. What kind of 'help' do you need? Do you need someone to make the rounds? I could do that.

Sure.
We're also trying to discuss the Pro's - Con's between our 2 bullets.
Sadly, I know very little about ballistics.

You'll be able to carry more and your weapons will be more controllable on full auto. That's really what counts. And if your friend tries to say 'lel muh stopping power' kindly let him know he's full of shit. As for your bullets I'll do them after work.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

9mm rifle cartridges such as the Brennecke family offer greater still bullet weights, but also with good performance at range.

Hello, do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior 8mm Mazon?

[Tekeristan]

Sure.
We're also trying to discuss the Pro's - Con's between our 2 bullets.
Sadly, I know very little about ballistics.

You'll be able to carry more and your weapons will be more controllable on full auto. That's really what counts. And if your friend tries to say 'lel muh stopping power' kindly let him know he's full of shit. As for your bullets I'll do them after work.

Care to explain in more detail?
I'm quite interested in what you have to say.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

You'll be able to carry more and your weapons will be more controllable on full auto. That's really what counts. And if your friend tries to say 'lel muh stopping power' kindly let him know he's full of shit. As for your bullets I'll do them after work.

Care to explain in more detail?
I'm quite interested in what you have to say.

I'm not sure how much more there is to say. You'll be able to shoot more, shoot more accurately, and last longer by virtue of carrying more bullets. Unless you meant my stopping power comment.

[Laywenrania]

You'll be able to carry more and your weapons will be more controllable on full auto. That's really what counts. And if your friend tries to say 'lel muh stopping power' kindly let him know he's full of shit. As for your bullets I'll do them after work.

Care to explain in more detail?
I'm quite interested in what you have to say.

A 5,45 mm loadout with 180 rounds weights a tad less then 2 kg. With 7,62x39 you will land at about 3kg. (without magazines each).
The 5,45 has a flatter trajectory, less recoil, which naturally increases full auto accuracy/controllability.
A 5,45mm round will tumble through it's design.
and: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.45%C3%9739mm

[Imperializt Russia]

The simple answer - it's a tradeoff.
The question is which end of the scale you wish to favour.

[Tekeristan]

The simple answer - it's a tradeoff.
The question is which end of the scale you wish to favour.

What about 6.5 rounds?

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

The simple answer - it's a tradeoff.
The question is which end of the scale you wish to favour.

I think it's pretty clear where we stand. : ' )

-7mm fistbump-

[Laywenrania]

The simple answer - it's a tradeoff.
The question is which end of the scale you wish to favour.

What about 6.5 rounds?

They're a compromise^^

[Purpelia]

Go with 5.5x42mm Purpelian. It's a 5.45x39mm bullet stuffed into a 42mm long case to achieve velocities of up to 1064 m/s.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

[Purpelia]

(Image)

Now that is funny.