Infantry Discussion Thread 6: True Korea Edition

[Themiclesia]

Not at all. We're a nation of hundreds of states, sometimes in alliance and other times in war. It's important to maintain a reputation so as to make future alliances possible, and to garner support from neutral states.

Looting, rape, and slavery are all commonplace practices at the time.

It would be ill reputable to do otherwise.

I'll get back to this tomorrow; need some sleep.

[Aqizithiuda]

Reputation is a rather odd thing to think about in the 9th century BC

Not at all. We're a nation of hundreds of states, sometimes in alliance and other times in war. It's important to maintain a reputation so as to make future alliances possible, and to garner support from neutral states.

Looting while in allied territory is obviously a bad thing, and towns during this period would often set up markets outside city walls when an army marched through to prevent such events from occurring or would make gifts of grain to the army.

Looting in enemy territory, however, is not only acceptable but practical and necessary. It reduces the size of your train, reduces expenditure and reduces your enemy's ability to field an army in your rear and after you've withdrawn the bulk of your forces. It's also important to maintaining your troops' morale. Plundering is a compensation to those who have been levied for their time and is bonus pay for soldiers who are often poorly or irregularly paid.

Honestly, an army that doesn't loot, rape and enslave to a certain degree isn't particularly believable for your time period.

[Eisarn-Ara]

Looting, rape, and slavery are all commonplace practices at the time.

It would be ill reputable to do otherwise.

I'll get back to this tomorrow; need some sleep.

No thralls to work to death in the salt mines? Yer' not doing "The ancient world" right.

[The Archangel Conglomerate]

Yeah that kind of stock is probably the only way you could do it.

Pretty much, yeah.

Also speedy WIP
(Image)

Damn it Ford! Always one upping me and such.

---

My question was more whether rounds went in behind the grip and it had some weird, proprietary forward eject or it just had no ejection port at all, because I'm stupid sometimes. Now that I look at it, I realize it could also be downward-ejecting behind the grip (because potentially lolhueg bolt travel) or left-hand feed, right-hand eject.

Is left hand feed, right hand ejecting. Potentially lolhueg bolt travel is because a) it's way cheaper than trying to cram something down the pipe to cut it off and b) accidental constant recoil system.

[Crookfur]

Why would the CO be the seamstress when a) the soldiers should be able to it themselves anyway and b) there are going to be plenty of cooks/whores/wives who can do it for them?

I don't think I've explained myself fully. The system in place mandates that the soldiers bring their own uniforms when called to report to service and upkeep such uniforms during service. Thus, soldiers would usually bring spare fabrics that match the fabrics used to produce the uniform in the first place. Likewise, our soldiers are also responsible for their own food, drink, and transport. Since most of our units are chariot units, they could afford to bring a few boxes of materials personally. So, no cooks/whores/wives at all.

1 single chariot riding noble self supplying and deploying probably instantly transforms into at least 4 people: noble, driver, groom and valet and guess which one won't be doing any clothing repairs. Even if a really poor noble can only afford a single dude to be driver, groom and valet they can still likely afford to pay a camp follower to any real sewing work.

Honestly relying on nobles to bring everything will likely result in them bringing EVERYTHING they want to maintain thier lifestyle.

[Laiten]

He is also underestimating the supplies his horses need and that even slightly difficult terrain will be a major hindrance.

[Arkandros]

Pikemen. Pikemen everywhere.
Also, have a thing I made.
http://img05.deviantart.net/e0a2/i/2015/108/c/0/mk17_battle_rifle_by_arkandros-d8q8dgs.jpg

Cut at least twelve cm off of the bbl, drop the stock down by 2 and make it a fixed A2 style, and the thing that weirds people out wrt sights is your mixing of AR sights and AK ones. (Oh, move your handlesight forward.)

Thanks. I don't think I'll cut the barrel down too much, because the rough story I have is that this is basically a battle rifle developed as a new standard rifle (post WWII) built for the added advantage of three round burst or full-auto (I haven't decided which yet, but leaning towards full-auto for eventual IAR development). I'm starting with this one because my nation didn't initially agree postwar with using intermediate cartridges. I have a few other ones similar to this I plan to make still, including a 5.56 version, a carbine, and a subgun adaptation. The 5.56 will (obviously) eventually become more popular, leaving this in a DMR role with full-auto or burst only remaining due to manufacturing inertia.
Any further comments/suggestions are welcome.

[The Archangel Conglomerate]

[REDACTED]
A spot more done, for what it's worth. I'll probably do a bit more tonight and upload the finished product tomorrow.

Thoughts on a name?

[Themiclesia]

Not at all. We're a nation of hundreds of states, sometimes in alliance and other times in war. It's important to maintain a reputation so as to make future alliances possible, and to garner support from neutral states.

Looting while in allied territory is obviously a bad thing, and towns during this period would often set up markets outside city walls when an army marched through to prevent such events from occurring or would make gifts of grain to the army.

Looting in enemy territory, however, is not only acceptable but practical and necessary. It reduces the size of your train, reduces expenditure and reduces your enemy's ability to field an army in your rear and after you've withdrawn the bulk of your forces. It's also important to maintaining your troops' morale. Plundering is a compensation to those who have been levied for their time and is bonus pay for soldiers who are often poorly or irregularly paid.

Honestly, an army that doesn't loot, rape and enslave to a certain degree isn't particularly believable for your time period.

I balk at my own stupidity for not explaining fully again. You guys don't yet know what a state is like.

The typical state is between 50 and 100 kilometres in radius, and ruled by a hereditary nobleman, assisted and counselled by a number of hereditary ministers and gentlemen, who serve as government functionaries in peace and soldiers in battle. The hereditary ministers then become commanders in battle. The noble himself rarely is involved in battle, but if he is, he becomes the highest commander. Around a state usually are more states. Rulers of states regularly marry their daughters into neighbouring states.

Battle occurs usually by consent. A state may cite an issue that has been negotiated and re-negotiated without concord and request the issue be resolved by battle, in which certain other terms may be proposed. For example, two states may agree to resolve the disputed ownership of a town by battle. The two armies then would join battle at a certain place and time; most often this wouldn't be at the location of dispute, but at an open field between the states. Other nobles may be requested to stand witness to the battle; when the king invites all his nobles to court, multiple nobles could inform each other about the most recent state of affairs.

Therefore, there wouldn't be much "enemy territory" on which to set foot by either side. Battles are almost always joined at borders. After battle, the prevailing doctrine is that all ills between two states should be considered fully atoned by battle and not brought to bear again; the two belligerents return to a state of friendship. This may sound rather idealistic, but when there are hundreds of states around, maintaining a good image is important to attract allies. Moreover, nobles are often in a personal competition with each other with regard to their reputation. They could say things like, "Ha! This year none of my soldiers took a single penny in battle!" to each other when they're summoned to the king's court.

[Themiclesia]

I don't think I've explained myself fully. The system in place mandates that the soldiers bring their own uniforms when called to report to service and upkeep such uniforms during service. Thus, soldiers would usually bring spare fabrics that match the fabrics used to produce the uniform in the first place. Likewise, our soldiers are also responsible for their own food, drink, and transport. Since most of our units are chariot units, they could afford to bring a few boxes of materials personally. So, no cooks/whores/wives at all.

1 single chariot riding noble self supplying and deploying probably instantly transforms into at least 4 people: noble, driver, groom and valet and guess which one won't be doing any clothing repairs. Even if a really poor noble can only afford a single dude to be driver, groom and valet they can still likely afford to pay a camp follower to any real sewing work.

Honestly relying on nobles to bring everything will likely result in them bringing EVERYTHING they want to maintain thier lifestyle.

Battles rarely last longer than 1 day, and the entire expedition may be over less than a week.

[Zeinbrad]

How effective would the Mauser 1918 T-Gewehr be against 1925 era armor?

[Korva]

How effective would the Mauser 1918 T-Gewehr be against 1925 era armor?

It would penetrate the front armor of most 1925 tanks at 100m and the side armor of some at greater ranges.

[Crookfur]

1 single chariot riding noble self supplying and deploying probably instantly transforms into at least 4 people: noble, driver, groom and valet and guess which one won't be doing any clothing repairs. Even if a really poor noble can only afford a single dude to be driver, groom and valet they can still likely afford to pay a camp follower to any real sewing work.

Honestly relying on nobles to bring everything will likely result in them bringing EVERYTHING they want to maintain thier lifestyle.

Battles rarely last longer than 1 day, and the entire expedition may be over less than a week.

Then there is no real need to worry about repairs or other sewing if it's just a week long jolly and if it as ritualised and tournament like as you claim that greatly increases the chance of large parts of the households being brought along.

[Crookfur]

Cut at least twelve cm off of the bbl, drop the stock down by 2 and make it a fixed A2 style, and the thing that weirds people out wrt sights is your mixing of AR sights and AK ones. (Oh, move your handlesight forward.)

Thanks. I don't think I'll cut the barrel down too much, because the rough story I have is that this is basically a battle rifle developed as a new standard rifle (post WWII) built for the added advantage of three round burst or full-auto (I haven't decided which yet, but leaning towards full-auto for eventual IAR development). I'm starting with this one because my nation didn't initially agree postwar with using intermediate cartridges. I have a few other ones similar to this I plan to make still, including a 5.56 version, a carbine, and a subgun adaptation. The 5.56 will (obviously) eventually become more popular, leaving this in a DMR role with full-auto or burst only remaining due to manufacturing inertia.
Any further comments/suggestions are welcome.

You really need to sort the stock. At the very least have a look at how stocks actually attach to the upper you've used. The carry handle should also be a good bit forward likely with its rear just in front of the pistol grip.

Sadly if you want this to look post war and don't mean that post war=1990s you'll need to redo the upper with a lot more metal a big lump of plastic like the SCAR upper simply doesn't fit. A plastic hand guard and stock is fine but the receive will be metal and seperate to the furniture.

[Yukonastan]

Th barrel is hilariously long, even for the average postwar BR. Cut it down.

As for the receiver, go the notAK/notG3 stamped route, and as many have said, EYE RELIEF is a thing. Move your carry handle forward. And look at the stock.

@Crookfur The upper receiver of the Special Operations Forces Combat Assault Rifle is an aluminium extrusion, iirc. Not plastic.

[Fordorsia]

Coming along nicely

It's cheap as fuck, so I guess the crude sights would be fine.

[The Kievan People]

Coming along nicely
(Image)
It's cheap as fuck, so I guess the crude sights would be fine.

I am confused.

What kind of sword is that supposed to be?

[Themiclesia]

Coming along nicely
(Image)
It's cheap as fuck, so I guess the crude sights would be fine.

I am confused.

What kind of sword is that supposed to be?

A blunt one?

[Crookfur]

Th barrel is hilariously long, even for the average postwar BR. Cut it down.

As for the receiver, go the notAK/notG3 stamped route, and as many have said, EYE RELIEF is a thing. Move your carry handle forward. And look at the stock.

@Crookfur The upper receiver of the Special Operations Forces Combat Assault Rifle is an aluminium extrusion, iirc. Not plastic.

Ah well missed that but still a monolithic upper is still largely a post 1990s thing.

[Themiclesia]

Battles rarely last longer than 1 day, and the entire expedition may be over less than a week.

Then there is no real need to worry about repairs or other sewing if it's just a week long jolly and if it as ritualised and tournament like as you claim that greatly increases the chance of large parts of the households being brought along.

But clothing can still get damaged (by a piercing arrow perhaps) in the meantime.

[Fordorsia]

I am confused.

What kind of sword is that supposed to be?

A blunt one?

ew blunt swords

[New Visegrad]

Then there is no real need to worry about repairs or other sewing if it's just a week long jolly and if it as ritualised and tournament like as you claim that greatly increases the chance of large parts of the households being brought along.

But clothing can still get damaged (by a piercing arrow perhaps) in the meantime.

Didn't (IRL) medieval nobles usually only go to tournaments and such with an entourage of one or two squires, who did everything from washing the noble's feet to looking after the horses? You don't need a separate guy for each of those roles.

A blunt one?

ew blunt swords

Aren't there certain types of swords that actually benefit from being slightly blunt to allow their mass to hit more effectively?

[Crookfur]

Then there is no real need to worry about repairs or other sewing if it's just a week long jolly and if it as ritualised and tournament like as you claim that greatly increases the chance of large parts of the households being brought along.

But clothing can still get damaged (by a piercing arrow perhaps) in the meantime.

You are away for a week, are you honestly not going to take spares and if one set get damaged just put a spare set on and wait till you get home to get it repaired?

Doign repairs to clothing in the feild or on the campaign trail is pretty much only concern if you are goign to be away for months.

As i said unless there is some cultural or ritual significance in in repairing your own cloths it simply won't happen in the "armys" and "conflcits" you describe.

[Fordorsia]

But clothing can still get damaged (by a piercing arrow perhaps) in the meantime.

Didn't (IRL) medieval nobles usually only go to tournaments and such with an entourage of one or two squires, who did everything from washing the noble's feet to looking after the horses? You don't need a separate guy for each of those roles.

ew blunt swords

Aren't there certain types of swords that actually benefit from being slightly blunt to allow their mass to hit more effectively?

No. Unlike larger, slower bullets apparently doing more tissue damage or something, swords have always been as sharp as they can be. The whole point of a sword's edge is to cut, so it would be wasteful to blunt it when you could use a club, mace or the spine of the blade instead to better effect.

[The balkens]

(Image)
A spot more done, for what it's worth. I'll probably do a bit more tonight and upload the finished product tomorrow.

Thoughts on a name?

ACG-34.