Infantry Discussion Thread 6: True Korea Edition

[Aqizithiuda]

I still say those shields need a covering.

How much strength could hide give to a shield that already has four bars, a boss and is rimmed? I don't think it would make a significant difference.

It's not just strength, it's waterproofing and wear resistance. It would also reduce cracking and splintering in the areas between reinforcements, especially seeing as your shield lacks protection on the sides.

[Anshaskia]

I still say those shields need a covering.

How much strength could hide give to a shield that already has four bars, a boss and is rimmed? I don't think it would make a significant difference.

It increases strength without decreasing flexibility, in addition to making the shield more durable against non-combat-based damage. It's the same thing with the plumbata: you're denying your troops effective equipment simply because you don't understand why they were effective.

[Gallia-]

9x90 MEN

It has low drag.

Reviving a big ol' obscure German round? I might take it into consideration...

Edit: I can't find a whole lot of info on it. Care to enlighten me?

1) Its length is 10x its diameter.

2) MEN [only].

[Fordorsia]

How much strength could hide give to a shield that already has four bars, a boss and is rimmed? I don't think it would make a significant difference.

It's not just strength, it's waterproofing and wear resistance. It would also reduce cracking and splintering in the areas between reinforcements, especially seeing as your shield lacks protection on the sides.

There have been plenty of ways to protect wood since at least 350 BC. I think oils, wax, paints, resins etc would do a much better job at weatherproofing a shield. And the planks are vertical, so the sides wouldn't be at too much risk of splitting or cracking unless a blow hits the very edge, which wouldn't really be a common occurance.

It's the same thing with the plumbata: you're denying your troops effective equipment simply because you don't understand why they were effective.

They have darts...

[Aqizithiuda]

It's not just strength, it's waterproofing and wear resistance. It would also reduce cracking and splintering in the areas between reinforcements, especially seeing as your shield lacks protection on the sides.

There have been plenty of ways to protect wood since at least 350 BC. I think oils, wax, paints, resins etc would do a much better job at weatherproofing a shield. And the planks are vertical, so the sides wouldn't be at too much risk of splitting or cracking unless a blow hits the very edge, which wouldn't really be a common occurance.

It's the same thing with the plumbata: you're denying your troops effective equipment simply because you don't understand why they were effective.

They have darts...

Then why were shields almost universally covered, if there were all these different ways to protect the shield?

[Fordorsia]

There have been plenty of ways to protect wood since at least 350 BC. I think oils, wax, paints, resins etc would do a much better job at weatherproofing a shield. And the planks are vertical, so the sides wouldn't be at too much risk of splitting or cracking unless a blow hits the very edge, which wouldn't really be a common occurance.



They have darts...

Then why were shields almost universally covered, if there were all these different ways to protect the shield?

To be honest I've never actually looked into shields that much. Very well I shall cover them. You win this time.

[Anshaskia]

It's the same thing with the plumbata: you're denying your troops effective equipment simply because you don't understand why they were effective.

They have darts...

And soon you will have shield with leather on them. Leather was used in the creation of shields since as early as around the 13th century BC and all the way up until the point that shields stopped being used.

[The Technocratic Syndicalists]

Here's how my infantry squads are organized .Squads are made up of 6 soldiers in order to be transported in an IFV.

Basic Infantry Squad:

Command Fireteam:

Squad Leader:
SCAR 6.5 + Elcan Spectre+AN/PEQ-15+FLIR T70
16x 24 round 6.5mm magazines
USP 45 tactical
4x12 round .45 magazines
4x m67 frag grenade
2x m18 smoke grenade
L-3 GPNVG-18
FLIR Recon BN10 Thermal Binocular
Exelis SINCGARS RT-1523G


MG gunner
Mk. 48 (6.5mm) + Specter m145+AN/PEQ-15+FLIR T70
4x150 round 6.5mm belts
USP 45 tactical
4x12 round .45 magazines
4x m67 frag grenade
2x m18 smoke grenade
L-3 GPNVG-18

Grenadier
SCAR 6.5 + Elcan Spectre+AN/PEQ-15+FLIR T70
10x 24 round 6.5mm magazines
XM25 CTDE
6x 4 round 25mm magazines
4x m67 frag grenade
2x m18 smoke grenade
L-3 GPNVG-18

Support Fireteam

Riflemen (second in command)
SCAR 6.5 + Elcan Spectre+AN/PEQ-15+FLIR T70
16x 24 round 6.5mm magazines
USP 45 tactical
4x12 round .45 magazines
4x m67 frag grenade
2x m18 smoke grenade
L-3 GPNVG-18

Sniper
DSR-1+Hensoldt ZF 6-24x72 SAM + FLIR T75
20 x 4 round 338 lapua magnum magazines
USP 45 tactical
4x12 round .45 magazines
2x m18 smoke grenade
L-3 GPNVG-18
FLIR Recon BN10 Thermal Binocular
Leupold RX-1000i TBR Compact Rangefinder


MG gunner
Mk. 48 (6.5mm) + Specter m145+AN/PEQ-15+FLIR T70
4x150 round 6.5mm belts
USP 45 tactical
4x12 round .45 magazines
4x m67 frag grenade
2x m18 smoke grenade
L-3 GPNVG-18


Combat Engineering Squad

AT fireteam

AT riflemen (squad leader)
SCAR-CQC 6.5 + Elcan Spectre+AN/PEQ-15+FLIR T70
10x 24 round 6.5mm magazines
2 x M19 AT mine
2x AN-M14 incendiary grenade
2x m18 smoke grenade
L-3 GPNVG-18
FLIR Recon BN10 Thermal Binocular
Exelis SINCGARS RT-1523G

Light AT gunner
SCAR-CQC 6.5 + Elcan Spectre+AN/PEQ-15+FLIR T70
10x 24 round 6.5mm magazines
Panzerfaust 3
3x tandem-charge HEAT rounds
2x thermobaric bunker buster rounds
2 x M19 AT mine
2x AN-M14 incendiary grenade
2x m18 smoke grenade
L-3 GPNVG-18

Heavy AT gunner
SCAR-CQC 6.5 + Elcan Spectre+AN/PEQ-15+FLIR T70
10x 24 round 6.5mm magazines
2 x FMG-172 SRAW
2 x M19 AT mine
2x AN-M14 incendiary grenade
2x m18 smoke grenade
L-3 GPNVG-18


Demolitions/Mine clearing fireteam

Anti-Materiel Sniper
IWS2000+Hensoldt ZF 6-24x72 SAM + FLIR T75
6 x 5 round 15.2mm APFSDS magazines
USP 45 tactical
4x12 round .45 magazines
2x m18 smoke grenade
L-3 GPNVG-18
FLIR Recon BN10 Thermal Binocular
Leupold RX-1000i TBR Compact Rangefinder

Demolitions riflemen
SCAR-CQC 6.5 + Elcan Spectre+AN/PEQ-15+FLIR T70
10x 24 round 6.5mm magazines
10x M112 Demolition Block
2x claymore mine
2x AN-M14 incendiary grenade
2x m18 smoke grenade
L-3 GPNVG-18

Mine clearing riflemen
SCAR-CQC 6.5 + Elcan Spectre+AN/PEQ-15+FLIR T70
10x 24 round 6.5mm magazines
1x AN/PSS-12 Mine Detector
2x claymore mine
2x AN-M14 incendiary grenade
2x m18 smoke grenade
L-3 GPNVG-18

[EsToVnIa]

SCAR doesn't come in 6.5mm, only 5.56 and 7.62

[The Technocratic Syndicalists]

SCAR doesn't come in 6.5mm, only 5.56 and 7.62

I know, that's why I'm using custom made SCARs and Mk.48's chambered in 6.5mm grendel.

[EsToVnIa]

Do you pay the kajillion extra cash that FN charges for "customization" ???

[The Technocratic Syndicalists]

Do you pay the kajillion extra cash that FN charges for "customization" ???

Well if you see here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=343097 I'm actually using all custom weapons that are based off of real world designs. For this thread I'm just posting their rough RL equivalents in order to reduce confusion. I wan't people to critique the squad organization and choice of equipment rather than the specifics of the equipment itself.

[Crookfur]

If my nation's service rifle is chambered in 6.5 Grendel, what would a good round for our DMR be? I know the comparable duos would be like 5.56 and 7.62 nato, as well as 7.62 soviet and 7.62x54mmR, and so I was just wondering what a comparable cartridge would be to complement the grendel. thx!

As mentioend just use the same roudn for your DMRs. The whole point of 6.mm grtendel is thats its one cartridge to do all the infantry section jobs (rifle, MG and DMR)

Any round that would complement it is in the specialist long range rifle catagory (things like .338 lapua and 9x90mm MEN) so not really suitable for inclusion at the section/squad level.

[EsToVnIa]

Yeah but do you pay the extra money for customization???

[The Technocratic Syndicalists]

Yeah but do you pay the extra money for customization???

The theoretical weapons are all domestically produced that come from the factory chambered in 6.5mm grendel. I don't see where the confusion is.

[Crookfur]

Here's how my infantry squads are organized .Squads are made up of 6 soldiers in order to be transported in an IFV.

Basic Infantry Squad:

Command Fireteam:

Squad Leader:
SCAR 6.5 + Elcan Spectre+AN/PEQ-15+FLIR T70
16x 24 round 6.5mm magazines
USP 45 tactical
4x12 round .45 magazines
4x m67 frag grenade
2x m18 smoke grenade
L-3 GPNVG-18
FLIR Recon BN10 Thermal Binocular
Exelis SINCGARS RT-1523G


MG gunner
Mk. 48 (6.5mm) + Specter m145+AN/PEQ-15+FLIR T70
4x150 round 6.5mm belts
USP 45 tactical
4x12 round .45 magazines
4x m67 frag grenade
2x m18 smoke grenade
L-3 GPNVG-18

Grenadier
SCAR 6.5 + Elcan Spectre+AN/PEQ-15+FLIR T70
10x 24 round 6.5mm magazines
XM25 CTDE
6x 4 round 25mm magazines
4x m67 frag grenade
2x m18 smoke grenade
L-3 GPNVG-18

Support Fireteam

Riflemen (second in command)
SCAR 6.5 + Elcan Spectre+AN/PEQ-15+FLIR T70
16x 24 round 6.5mm magazines
USP 45 tactical
4x12 round .45 magazines
4x m67 frag grenade
2x m18 smoke grenade
L-3 GPNVG-18

Sniper
DSR-1+Hensoldt ZF 6-24x72 SAM + FLIR T75
20 x 4 round 338 lapua magnum magazines
USP 45 tactical
4x12 round .45 magazines
2x m18 smoke grenade
L-3 GPNVG-18
FLIR Recon BN10 Thermal Binocular
Leupold RX-1000i TBR Compact Rangefinder


MG gunner
Mk. 48 (6.5mm) + Specter m145+AN/PEQ-15+FLIR T70
4x150 round 6.5mm belts
USP 45 tactical
4x12 round .45 magazines
4x m67 frag grenade
2x m18 smoke grenade
L-3 GPNVG-18


Combat Engineering Squad

AT fireteam

AT riflemen (squad leader)
SCAR-CQC 6.5 + Elcan Spectre+AN/PEQ-15+FLIR T70
10x 24 round 6.5mm magazines
2 x M19 AT mine
2x AN-M14 incendiary grenade
2x m18 smoke grenade
L-3 GPNVG-18
FLIR Recon BN10 Thermal Binocular
Exelis SINCGARS RT-1523G

Light AT gunner
SCAR-CQC 6.5 + Elcan Spectre+AN/PEQ-15+FLIR T70
10x 24 round 6.5mm magazines
Panzerfaust 3
3x tandem-charge HEAT rounds
2x thermobaric bunker buster rounds
2 x M19 AT mine
2x AN-M14 incendiary grenade
2x m18 smoke grenade
L-3 GPNVG-18

Heavy AT gunner
SCAR-CQC 6.5 + Elcan Spectre+AN/PEQ-15+FLIR T70
10x 24 round 6.5mm magazines
2 x FMG-172 SRAW
2 x M19 AT mine
2x AN-M14 incendiary grenade
2x m18 smoke grenade
L-3 GPNVG-18


Demolitions/Mine clearing fireteam

Anti-Materiel Sniper
IWS2000+Hensoldt ZF 6-24x72 SAM + FLIR T75
6 x 5 round 15.2mm APFSDS magazines
USP 45 tactical
4x12 round .45 magazines
2x m18 smoke grenade
L-3 GPNVG-18
FLIR Recon BN10 Thermal Binocular
Leupold RX-1000i TBR Compact Rangefinder

Demolitions riflemen
SCAR-CQC 6.5 + Elcan Spectre+AN/PEQ-15+FLIR T70
10x 24 round 6.5mm magazines
10x M112 Demolition Block
2x claymore mine
2x AN-M14 incendiary grenade
2x m18 smoke grenade
L-3 GPNVG-18

Mine clearing riflemen
SCAR-CQC 6.5 + Elcan Spectre+AN/PEQ-15+FLIR T70
10x 24 round 6.5mm magazines
1x AN/PSS-12 Mine Detector
2x claymore mine
2x AN-M14 incendiary grenade
2x m18 smoke grenade
L-3 GPNVG-18

god thats a stupidly heavily loaded squad and a total misunderstanding of what engineers are for...


With only 6 people i would go:

TL (proabably having a UGL)
MG
Grenadier
Rocketman/assaultman
2x rifleman


No earthly need for .338 lapua at squad/section level, carrying a rifle and a fancy pants grenade rifle must be a bitch and only the TL/SL needs smoke.

As for the rest just ditch it.

Engineers (or more accuractly pioneers if they are part of an infantry battalion) would just be your infantry squad with a bunch more tools, mines and explosives in the wagon

[EsToVnIa]

Yeah but do you pay the extra money for customization???

The theoretical weapons are all domestically produced that come from the factory chambered in 6.5mm grendel. I don't see where the confusion is.

Did you pay FN for usage of "SCAR" since they have it copyrighted?

[Black Hand]

Thoughts on a huot rifle inspired K31based rifle in my 7.62x55 (derimmed 7.62x54R with minor tweaking) as a support rifle that shares as many parts as possible with said K31 rifle

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

Do you pay the kajillion extra cash that FN charges for "customization" ???

Ike had no idea what he was talking about. Military industrial complex is the shit.

[The Technocratic Syndicalists]

The theoretical weapons are all domestically produced that come from the factory chambered in 6.5mm grendel. I don't see where the confusion is.

Did you pay FN for usage of "SCAR" since they have it copyrighted?

No, as SCAR in my case stands for Superior Combat Assault Rifle, not Special operations forces Combat Assault Rifle. If Belgium wants so sue us we'll change the name.

[EsToVnIa]

Did you pay FN for usage of "SCAR" since they have it copyrighted?

No, as SCAR in my case stands for Superior Combat Assault Rifle, not Special operations forces Combat Assault Rifle. If Belgium wants so sue us we'll change the name.

Why would Belgium sue, when FN is a privately owned enterprise?

[The Technocratic Syndicalists]

god thats a stupidly heavily loaded squad and a total misunderstanding of what engineers are for...


With only 6 people i would go:

TL (proabably having a UGL)
MG
Grenadier
Rocketman/assaultman
2x rifleman


No earthly need for .338 lapua at squad/section level, carrying a rifle and a fancy pants grenade rifle must be a bitch and only the TL/SL needs smoke.

As for the rest just ditch it.

Engineers (or more accuractly pioneers if they are part of an infantry battalion) would just be your infantry squad with a bunch more tools, mines and explosives in the wagon

I didn't really know what to call the second squad so I just went with "engineers". I'll rename them pioneers or "anti-tank and demolitions" squad if you want.

The heavy load is to make up for the smaller squad size and is alleviated by the fact that the soldiers are fighting from IFVs and are not hiking 20+ miles with all their combat gear.

.338 lapua is to provide quasi-anti materiel capability as well as the capability to penetrate heavy cover and body armor at extended range. In a jungle it might not be useful but in urban environments or in mountainous terrain it seems it would be useful.

[The Technocratic Syndicalists]

No, as SCAR in my case stands for Superior Combat Assault Rifle, not Special operations forces Combat Assault Rifle. If Belgium wants so sue us we'll change the name.

Why would Belgium sue, when FN is a privately owned enterprise?

What I meant is that if someone from the belgium region of NS who claims to own FN gets mad at me for using the term SCAR i'd be willing to change it.

[Aqizithiuda]

Estovnia is just being a pain. Ignore her. RL weapons are fair game.

[EsToVnIa]

Estovnia is just being a pain. Ignore her. RL weapons are fair game.

You never answered my 6.5 Grendel question