Infantry Discussion Thread 6: True Korea Edition

[Aqizithiuda]

Are there any merits to issuing a GPMG in an intermediate (ala QYJ-88) over a full-powered cartridge (pmuch every other GPMG)

Not huge ones, IMO.
GPMG in a rifle cartridge will offer barrier penetration and with AP ammo, the ability to harass thin-skinned vehicles at range. An intermediate, short of an optimum which is near rifle cartridge weight and bulk, won't match that.

Better penetration, easier to train with and use, allowed the user to wear more armor, and had better strait shot range. The long bow had better arched range and better rate of fire.



Battle of Crecy multiple French Cavalry charges make it to the English position, again despite longbow fire.
Battle of Poiters, two separate French infantry charge reaches English position despite intense longbow fire. In addition sources indicate that the French assault began with a ~200 man cavalry charge that withstood the longbow fire to reach the English position.
Battle of Agincourt multiple French calvary charges reach the English position. Again despite longbows present in large numbers.

The French cavalry drowned in the mud or were bludgeoned to death by English archers at close range.

The longbow and the crossbow aren't like-for-like comparable weapons. It's like comparing the M82 to an M16 (though I had once read a book which described the crossbow as "the atom bomb of its day" which was lulz). The longbow group can put out a lot of fire, rapidly, against an area target. The crossbow archer is basically a sniper, or as close as one gets in the medieval era.

The best thing about crossbows is the fact that you can hold them on someone and take time to aim. You have a very short amount of time to aim a longbow, and that's if you're good with one.

At combat ranges you aren't going to be aiming at individuals, but groups of infantry.

For scale, the BUCS (British Universities & Colleges Sport) outdoor archery championships qualifying score for an experienced male longbow archer is a mere 228 points, on a shoot with 1440 points available from 144 arrows. This shoot takes place at 90, 70, 50 and 30 metres distance and still averages a mere 1.5 points per arrow.

According to period literature (admittedly Arabic), an archer should be capable of hitting a man sized target at 60 yards every time, while others give 80 yards as the range where you should mostly be able to hit a man sized target.

[Imperializt Russia]

Standard targets are 120cm beyond 50m (60yds) and 80cm before that.
Any archer will give a man-sized target, such as a man, a serious case of the willies regardless of proficiency.

[Yukonastan]

Everyone knows that recurves produce more power for their size than longbows. Why are we even discussing this.

[Puzikas]

Should just use magic.

Archery plebs. Destruction school master race.

See how happy we all are when discussing possibly the most violent period in Human history? : D

I mean, this IS the IDT.

[Aqizithiuda]

Everyone knows that recurves produce more power for their size than longbows. Why are we even discussing this.

Because recurve bows take up to two years to make, are expensive and can potentially fall apart in wet climates. Well, okay, two wood or sinew reinforced recurves aren't as expensive and don't take as long to produce, but they also don't have the same efficiency.

The ideal bow, to my mind, would be based on the holmegaard pattern with the tips slightly recurved. You get better efficieny than a plain D section self bow, can use a wider range of woods, handles moisture better than composite bows are reputed to and there's not as great a difference in manufacture time.

[Imperializt Russia]

Everyone knows that recurves produce more power for their size than longbows. Why are we even discussing this.

Because recurve bows take up to two years to make, are expensive and can potentially fall apart in wet climates. Well, okay, two wood or sinew reinforced recurves aren't as expensive and don't take as long to produce, but they also don't have the same efficiency.

The ideal bow, to my mind, would be based on the holmegaard pattern with the tips slightly recurved. You get better efficieny than a plain D section self bow, can use a wider range of woods, handles moisture better than composite bows are reputed to and there's not as great a difference in manufacture time.

Two years to glue some laminates together? Not sure how you'd have archery as an accessible sport were this the case for anything but the highest of high end.

[Aqizithiuda]

Because recurve bows take up to two years to make, are expensive and can potentially fall apart in wet climates. Well, okay, two wood or sinew reinforced recurves aren't as expensive and don't take as long to produce, but they also don't have the same efficiency.

The ideal bow, to my mind, would be based on the holmegaard pattern with the tips slightly recurved. You get better efficieny than a plain D section self bow, can use a wider range of woods, handles moisture better than composite bows are reputed to and there's not as great a difference in manufacture time.

Two years to glue some laminates together? Not sure how you'd have archery as an accessible sport were this the case for anything but the highest of high end.

It's the drying of the glue that takes the most time, not the process of gluing. Bows were probably handed down from father to son and mother to daughter.

Wu Yonghua was still able to tell our reporter in detail about the process of traditional bowmaking. Traditional bows were made in four layers: ox horn, bamboo, sinew and birch bark. The bamboo was split into laths, dried in the sun, then after heating it was bent into the shape of the bow and the ox-horn was attached using fish-bladder glue. Then a layer of ox sinew was glued on, and finally the layer of birch bark. The minimum time required to make a single bow was two years.

http://www.atarn.org/chinese/chengdu/chengdu.htm

[Imperializt Russia]

Sorry, I assumed we were talking about modern, mass-produced recurve bows hence my confusion.

[Aqizithiuda]

Sorry, I assumed we were talking about modern, mass-produced recurve bows hence my confusion.

Sorry, I should have been more specific

[Habhukaz]

Provisional infantryman until poor man's photochop will finish downloading.

[Schwere Panzer Abieltung 502]

Provisional infantryman until poor man's photochop will finish downloading.

omfg u n00b i haz awp headshot bichezzzzzz

Should just use magic.

Archery plebs. Destruction school master race.

See how happy we all are when discussing possibly the most violent period in Human history? : D

I mean, this IS the IDT.

Renaissance was worse.

[Habhukaz]

Provisional infantryman until poor man's photochop will finish downloading.

omfg u n00b i haz awp headshot bichezzzzzz

What's a headshot?

[Crookfur]

omfg u n00b i haz awp headshot bichezzzzzz

What's a headshot?

Something a little bit worse than the tear inducing migraine that guy seems to be suffering.

Migraines are only cool in a military setting if your name is John Churchill and roll around Europe in a darkened coach kicking the french up the arse repeatedly.

[Fordorsia]

omfg u n00b i haz awp headshot bichezzzzzz

What's a headshot?

So instead of helmets they have blue force fields around their heads that horribly distort their vision?

Also that sword has spikes on it and the pauldrons would hit literally everything you're even remotely near.

[Habhukaz]

What's a headshot?

So instead of helmets they have blue force fields around their heads that horribly distort their vision?

Also that sword has spikes on it and the pauldrons would hit literally everything you're even remotely near.

I just said that, but no, force fields are for pißwankas. This is along the lines of our widely issued helmet.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

So instead of helmets they have blue force fields around their heads that horribly distort their vision?

Also that sword has spikes on it and the pauldrons would hit literally everything you're even remotely near.

I just said that, but no, force fields are for pißwankas. This is along the lines of our widely issued helmet.

Oh look, two nice handles for dragging the enemy to the floor.

[Fordorsia]

So instead of helmets they have blue force fields around their heads that horribly distort their vision?

Also that sword has spikes on it and the pauldrons would hit literally everything you're even remotely near.

I just said that, but no, force fields are for pißwankas. This is along the lines of our widely issued helmet.

Storm Trooper helmets have worse visibility than many Medieval ones, and those horns would be a great use to anyone wanting to snap your neck.

[Habhukaz]

I just said that, but no, force fields are for pißwankas. This is along the lines of our widely issued helmet.

Storm Trooper helmets have worse visibility than many Medieval ones, and those horns would be a great use to anyone wanting to snap your neck.

'Tis why you strengthen your neck comrade, and I am not exactly a realistic nation either. Like, I am sort of realistic, but naaah.

I just said that, but no, force fields are for pißwankas. This is along the lines of our widely issued helmet.

Oh look, two nice handles for dragging the enemy to the floor.

You mean two nice helmets for goring the young calf who opposes your rule?

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

Summer came early this year.

[Fordorsia]

Summer came early this year.

You came early last night : D

[Habhukaz]

Summer came early this year.

It's actually Autumn.

[Vorokhovo]

Summer came early this year.

It's actually Autumn.

I believe NS Summer is where a horde of 4chan "hackerers" come onto NS and spam the living chush' sobach'ya out of the forums with national socialist/jihadi (like last year) and other things, but welcome to the IDT. I'm new too.

[Azurg]

Hey,
Any reasons against adopting the QBZ-95 and it's 5,8mm round?

[Imperializt Russia]

It's actually Autumn.

I believe NS Summer is where a horde of 4chan "hackerers" come onto NS and spam the living chush' sobach'ya out of the forums with national socialist/jihadi (like last year) and other things, but welcome to the IDT. I'm new too.

NS Summer, as the name implies, is when the schools let out for the summer.
And children (as they are often, technically, children) who don't know much if anything about military start posting about their equipment and tactics and nothing makes any sense.

It's worse in NSG though.

[Imperializt Russia]

Hey,
Any reasons against adopting the QBZ-95 and it's 5,8mm round?

Because China, but that's about it. Doesn't represent anything significant over any western 5.56mm or Russian 5.45mm offering.