Military Ground Vehicles of Your Nation [NO MECHS] Mark 8

[Space navy]

- It's a good job! People respect you. The pay is alright. It requires no qualifications. You can keep fit and you will always be fed. You will be proud of doing your job. Obvious prospects for promotion. It's a job for life, and it has a good pension and benefits.

But you are risking your life. No amount of money or respect is worth that.

surely a communist would not think such libertarian, randist ideas

[Questers]

Anyway, for anyone here who thinks the british still have some cool left in them here is proof from the 70's to say otherwise.

seen and discussed before. as prior mentioned the British Army was going through probably one of its worst periods in the late 60s/70s. Anyway, the British had some good things to say about the S-tank, except: it couldn't fire on the move

[Korva]

Padnak, more likely.

speaking of which...

[Husseinarti]

Serbia Took R-60s and made them into short range land based air defense.

Iraq put R-60 seekers on their 2K12 missiles.

[Nachmere]

Padnak, more likely.

speaking of which...

Ah , Kilshon...good for comic releif.

[Purpelia]

surely a communist would not think such libertarian, randist ideas

The way I see the world is simple. I am a fallible and ultimately bad human being. So are you and everyone else. Fallibility, selfishness, greed, all these are characteristics inherent in human nature. And yet, the only way a just and proper society that benefits everyone to exist would be for us not to be like that. Therefore we all need to be forced to become better. We need to be forced to not be selfish, greedy and self centered. And as far as I know fear is the only way.

Or to put it in another way. I shall not be good unless you beat me. So I demand you take up the stick.

[Korva]

kinky

[Imperializt Russia]

I second that emotion.

[Space navy]

surely a communist would not think such libertarian, randist ideas

The way I see the world is simple. I am a fallible and ultimately bad human being. So are you and everyone else. Fallibility, selfishness, greed, all these are characteristics inherent in human nature. And yet, the only way a just and proper society that benefits everyone to exist would be for us not to be like that. Therefore we all need to be forced by fear to become better. That's where fear comes in.

Or to put it in another way. I shall not be good unless you beat me. So I demand you take up the stick.

it sounds like youre just exceedingly self centered with no/negative opinion towards the utility of the gestalt

i.e. a diehard randist capitalizt

anyway this is a very normative argument youre making and highly subjective not everyone is as selfish as you considering individuals have killed themselves for the gestalt before

[Padnak]

The ultimate anti air weapon for tank.

(Image)

You see comrade, you don't need air defense network when you into the boltings of SAMs onto tanks

[Purpelia]

it sounds like youre just exceedingly self centered with no/negative opinion towards the utility of the gestalt

Not really. In fact I am actually not that self centered in life aside from being cowardly. But I do not consider that enough. Nothing short of a paragon of saintly non-self centrism will do for the perfect world.

anyway this is a very normative argument youre making and highly subjective not everyone is as selfish as you considering individuals have killed themselves for the gestalt before

The fact that such individuals are seen as exceptional and heroic should tell you of their prevalence. Only when all are like that do we stand a chance. Fundamentally though it's a scale. I imagine plenty of people would be (as they are in Europe) willing to give up some wealth in exchange for the greater good. But at their hart, the deepest darkest part of their soul most people still want to be the stuck up rich guy lording over the rest. And that is our enemy.

[Space navy]

it sounds like youre just exceedingly self centered with no/negative opinion towards the utility of the gestalt

Not really. In fact I am actually not that self centered in life aside from being cowardly. But I do not consider that enough. Nothing short of a paragon of saintly non-self centrism will do for the perfect world.

anyway this is a very normative argument youre making and highly subjective not everyone is as selfish as you considering individuals have killed themselves for the gestalt before

The fact that such individuals are seen as exceptional and heroic should tell you of their prevalence. Only when all are like that do we stand a chance.

except theyre not exceptional or heroic

that's the myth!

theyre a product of gestalt conditioning and mutual camaraderie gained from military-style training/environment

they might have jumped on the grenade but that's only because they're only the guy who did it first!

although one can argue that military men are born not created, and military training merely enables the gestalt mindset and group cooperation to take effect but that's true of any individual

[Yukonastan]

The ultimate anti air weapon for tank.

(Image)

YOU SEE IVAN

I OF THE BOLTINGS OF MISSILE ONTO TANK

NOW YOU CAN OF THE SHOOT DOWN CAPITALIST PIGDOG A-10 FIGHTER BOMBERS TOO

[The Akasha Colony]

The fact that such individuals are seen as exceptional and heroic should tell you of their prevalence.

Only they aren't. Well, historically, they haven't been.

Only within the last few decades has there been a move in the West toward the veneration of those who serve in the armed forces. Toward the beginning of the 20th century through the Cold War, soldiers had a reputation for either being simple everymen drafted to fight, or often even those too poor or unskilled to get a job elsewhere. It was not a particularly reputable profession and propaganda at the time emphasized the "down to earth" nature of soldiering, largely as a means of encouraging more people to enlist. The goal was to make soldering look like something any Joe Schmoe could do, so that you wouldn't have droves of young men saying "Nah, I'm not heroic enough" and dismissing the thought out of hand.

Yes, propaganda schemes latched on to the exploits of certain famous soldiers for morale purposes, but WWII propaganda notably focuses on how these exploits could be achieved by anyone. They were not the work of a special elite or a military caste, but regular young everyday men sent to the front who, when confronted with enemy action, achieved great feats that could in theory be done by anyone.

The modern veneration of the military is mostly politically-motivated, at least in the United States. It's been a smokescreen to cover severe shortfalls in veterans' care and to shore up support for unpopular foreign wars by attempting to tie the notion of opposition to conflicts in the Middle East to opposition of the troops' welfare. In the same way that it has become more or less necessary for any respectable politician to wear a flag lapel pin at any public appearance. It's become a political weapon to use against those who can be labeled as "anti-American" for not supporting the military. The notion that soldiers are "heroic" and "exceptional" is a modern fiction invented as a means to escape military service, but runs directly counter to pretty much every recruiting commercial out there, as well as historical beliefs on the matter.

[Space navy]

The military was neither revered nor despised for most of Western history because conscription meant many people, from car mechanics to rocket scientists and plumbers to presidents, had served in the armed forces equally. It was not shown as "down to earth" or whatever through propaganda, it was shown as just as heroic as it is now in propaganda:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ritons.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... oster.jpeg
http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0157/3 ... 1337016070
http://posterspast.com/artscape/JoinAirService-G.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2uPoMaCgJg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRe2yR2E-IU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDbNtFL2TUI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIFATDe9dsw

Arguably the biggest difference between these ads aren't the motives they're appealing to, but the fact that demographics in employment have changed from being able to sell your labour, to absolutely needing education and post-secondary schooling to be well off; either vocational or university. Since you can't really sell your labour these days the advertisements change to emphasize the education and pay benefits post service rather than the communal effort of selling your labour to the state. They still depict everymen (or women) in all the above, and the militaries still emphasize that "anyone" can be a soldier.

The public perception of the armed forces as super heroic supermen is a post-9/11 invention, not post-Cold War or post-industrial. It's a result of the increasing separatism between the civil society and military society in the United States, not any conscious effort on part of the propaganda machine, they were exploiting the existing feelings. It's more an effect of the reduced visibility of the military in modern times as a result of manpower and budget draw downs meaning less and less people are exposed to it personally.

It's not a "fiction" to "avoid" service, it is actually more exceptional in modern times than the past because the soldier/capita ratio has been steadily decreasing for 50 years. It's what happens when people see things they don't understand or aren't exposed to doing positive things. It's much the same attitude you see towards doctors and other poorly understood, positive professions, but doctors don't have billions of dollars of television advertisements amplifying this effect, and people are increasingly exposed to the healthcare industry and its faults (especially in the United States) every day.

The military, with its drawing downs, and with its esoteric language of "full spectrum operations" and "joint strike fighters", is taking on a perception comparable to the scientist. Highly respected in society because they contribute something valuable (protection in the former, knowledge in the latter), but poorly understood by the public. No one has any idea what sort of problems they experience, the faults of their industries or organizations, they have only perceptions from media to draw upon, and the media reflects perceptions of the public, creating a sort of feedback loop. This tends, with positive portrayal, result in society putting these professions on a pedestal and myths like exceptional heroism and infallibility are a natural result.

The modern US Army ad above actually has a lot in common with the Be All You Can Be era advertisements in tone, just emphasizing the 21st century everyman (doctor, lawyer, engineer, computer technician, etc.) as opposed to the 20th century everyman (factory worker, mechanic, plumber, etc.).

It's not a problem unless you get all your information from ads, film, and news without application of critical thought, though.

e: Well ok I lied a bit, it is a problem because it encourages people to support more wars with a military that is incapable of doing its job due to years of underfunding. Chickenhawk taxpayers are probably the most dangerous threat to the US armed forces. A bit like NASA, actually, which is problematic.

[Purpelia]

Only they aren't. Well, historically, they haven't been.

I was not talking about soldiers but about selfless individuals who live the communist ideal in society or people who die for their ideals outside the brainwashing engine that is the army. Why you switched back to the army is confusing to me.

[Fordorsia]

What is even happening.

[Nachmere]

a) this is turning into a political debate.
b) please stop b4 i start ranting about communism

c) quick someone post a tank.

[Kolintha]

a) this is turning into a political debate.
b) please stop b4 i start ranting about communism

c) quick someone post a tank.

[Fordorsia]

beep beep delivery

[Kolintha]

beep beep delivery
(Image)

By god would I love to have one of those turn up at my door.

[Fordorsia]

beep beep delivery
(Image)

By god would I love to have one of those turn up at my door.

We ship worldwide

[Kolintha]

By god would I love to have one of those turn up at my door.

We ship worldwide

Ah...but is it free shipping?

Beep beep arschloch. Wheeled death truck with magical lazily done suspension and shiz coming through,

[Nachmere]

beep beep delivery
(Image)

10/10

[Fordorsia]

We ship worldwide

Ah...but is it free shipping?

It's free in the sense that you must pay for the half track's fuel and any damage it may have sustained traversing the seabed.