Military Ground Vehicles of Your Nation [NO MECHS] Mark 8

[Theodosiya]

Kinda inspired by NK Chonma which said carry manpads. OTOH, i'll replace the loader .50 with another MG3.

[Imperializt Russia]

The DPRK did it isn't a great excuse.

It can give you interesting flavour - it's just something you need to justify. I mount external ATGM on my MBTs and I struggle to justify that beyond flavour.

[New Visegrad]

If your tank has external storage racks, can't you just stick a couple of MANPAD launchers in there for emergency use? Same capability, less fucking around with wiring and mounting.

[Theodosiya]

If your tank has external storage racks, can't you just stick a couple of MANPAD launchers in there for emergency use? Same capability, less fucking around with wiring and mounting.

I'll put them there,2 per each side, totaling 4. Still put a RWS with .50 and 40mm AGL though, since it gave tank increased capability minus additional turret.

[Gallia-]

If your tank has external storage racks, can't you just stick a couple of MANPAD launchers in there for emergency use? Same capability, less fucking around with wiring and mounting.

a tank has no need for this kind of protection

its immediate air defence needs are met by its cannon

[New Visegrad]

If your tank has external storage racks, can't you just stick a couple of MANPAD launchers in there for emergency use? Same capability, less fucking around with wiring and mounting.

a tank has no need for this kind of protection

its immediate air defence needs are met by its cannon

I didn't say it needed it. I provided an option that would achieve the desired end result (tank has MANPADS) without compromising the design. If you can't afford to stow a couple of launchers in with the booze "ammo" crates and bedrolls, you couldn't afford to put them on the tank either. It's something that does literally nothing to reduce the vehicle's performance in any way, while providing a limited increase in its protection against marauding attack helos. To me, that seems like something that comes down to "if you want to" because there's really no particularly good reason to not do it.

What is with you and minimum-possible-everything? I swear you could find some way to justify troops not "needing" weapons because they can technically kill enemies with their hands.

[EsToVnIa]

"marauding attack helos" should be dealt with by SHORAD, not tanks

[Korva]

What is with you and minimum-possible-everything? I swear you could find some way to justify troops not "needing" weapons because they can technically kill enemies with their hands.

What?

If you're good at your job as an administrator they should have weight to spare.

If you're good at your job at reducing casualties and preserving manpower, everyone should be overloaded.

Seventy is the new forty.

[New Visegrad]

What is with you and minimum-possible-everything? I swear you could find some way to justify troops not "needing" weapons because they can technically kill enemies with their hands.

What?

If you're good at your job at reducing casualties and preserving manpower, everyone should be overloaded.

Seventy is the new forty.

Is that not sarcasm?

In any case, I was referring more to previous arguments we've had about tank capabilities and crews. I also wasn't referring to you.

[Gallia-]

What is with you and minimum-possible-everything? I swear you could find some way to justify troops not "needing" weapons because they can technically kill enemies with their hands.

What?

If you're good at your job at reducing casualties and preserving manpower, everyone should be overloaded.

Seventy is the new forty.

thirty is the new forty

speed is armor speed is armor speed is armor

all battlecruiser army

:galla:

firing ports and kevlar for days if you can dodge a bullet you can dodge a shell etc.

[Gallia-]

What?

Is that not sarcasm?

In any case, I was referring more to previous arguments we've had about tank capabilities and crews. I also wasn't referring to you.

No, it isn't.

If your tank platoon is attacked by a platoon (or two) of helicopter gunships, you won't have time to climb onto your turret, heft the Stinger, and shoot at one without being minced or something. MANPADS are like ATGW, they are ambush weapons in the ideal circumstance, and a tank platoon is the exact opposite kind of people who would want one.

Just aim the gun and start shooting at the helicopters with your cannon like a real man.

Or better yet: run away and hide behind something.

[Korva]

What?

Is that not sarcasm?

In any case, I was referring more to previous arguments we've had about tank capabilities and crews. I also wasn't referring to you.

The good reason not to do it, is that the cannon and coax are sufficient. You don't need your commanders clambering all over the bustle rack to mess with MANPADS.

ninja'd :/

[New Visegrad]

Is that not sarcasm?

In any case, I was referring more to previous arguments we've had about tank capabilities and crews. I also wasn't referring to you.

No, it isn't.

If your tank platoon is attacked by a platoon (or two) of helicopter gunships, you won't have time to climb onto your turret, heft the Stinger, and shoot at one without being minced or something. MANPADS are like ATGW, they are ambush weapons in the ideal circumstance, and a tank platoon is the exact opposite kind of people who would want one.

Just aim the gun and start shooting at the helicopters with your cannon like a real man.

Or better yet: run away and hide behind something.

I still stand by my assertion that "we probably won't need them" isn't a particularly pressing reason not to have them. The crew will feel better with them there if nothing else, and they could be useful for nearby infantry. A couple of launchers won't negatively affect the vehicle's performance. Sure, it's perfectly legit to choose not to issue them, but at the same time, there's no real downside to doing it. Which is what I've been saying the whole time - there may be no super important reason to have them, but if he wants to do it, there's no reason not to either.
It doesn't even have to be a mandatory thing. Just have some spare tubes and be like "hey we have these, if you feel like you might need them you can take them with you".

[Gallia-]

You're unlikely to hit a helicopter with a tank cannon unless it is being stupid and standing still or moving very slowly.

It is possible for tank battalions/companies to engage helicopter gunships en masse in very open terrain, like a desert flat, using sabot ammunition or some other low time-of-flight weapon. In closed terrain, like Europe, you are better off just hiding behind a hill or something and hoping/waiting until it goes away.

No, it isn't.

If your tank platoon is attacked by a platoon (or two) of helicopter gunships, you won't have time to climb onto your turret, heft the Stinger, and shoot at one without being minced or something. MANPADS are like ATGW, they are ambush weapons in the ideal circumstance, and a tank platoon is the exact opposite kind of people who would want one.

Just aim the gun and start shooting at the helicopters with your cannon like a real man.

Or better yet: run away and hide behind something.

I still stand by my assertion that "we probably won't need them" isn't a particularly pressing reason not to have them. The crew will feel better with them there if nothing else, and they could be useful for nearby infantry. A couple of launchers won't negatively affect the vehicle's performance. Sure, it's perfectly legit to choose not to issue them, but at the same time, there's no real downside to doing it. Which is what I've been saying the whole time - there may be no super important reason to have them, but if he wants to do it, there's no reason not to either.
It doesn't even have to be a mandatory thing. Just have some spare tubes and be like "hey we have these, if you feel like you might need them you can take them with you".

Tank crews are not scared of helicopters they do not need a security blanket to feel safe.

[New Vihenia]

Gun launched SAM maybe ?

[The Kievan People]

I still stand by my assertion that "we probably won't need them" isn't a particularly pressing reason not to have them. The crew will feel better with them there if nothing else, and they could be useful for nearby infantry. A couple of launchers won't negatively affect the vehicle's performance. Sure, it's perfectly legit to choose not to issue them, but at the same time, there's no real downside to doing it. Which is what I've been saying the whole time - there may be no super important reason to have them, but if he wants to do it, there's no reason not to either.
It doesn't even have to be a mandatory thing. Just have some spare tubes and be like "hey we have these, if you feel like you might need them you can take them with you".

If they waste time trying to use it rather than do something useful, like pop smoke and get off the road, it will have a very negative impact.

A false sense of security can be worse than no security at all.

[Doppio Giudici]

No, it isn't.

If your tank platoon is attacked by a platoon (or two) of helicopter gunships, you won't have time to climb onto your turret, heft the Stinger, and shoot at one without being minced or something. MANPADS are like ATGW, they are ambush weapons in the ideal circumstance, and a tank platoon is the exact opposite kind of people who would want one.

Just aim the gun and start shooting at the helicopters with your cannon like a real man.

Or better yet: run away and hide behind something.

I still stand by my assertion that "we probably won't need them" isn't a particularly pressing reason not to have them. The crew will feel better with them there if nothing else, and they could be useful for nearby infantry. A couple of launchers won't negatively affect the vehicle's performance. Sure, it's perfectly legit to choose not to issue them, but at the same time, there's no real downside to doing it. Which is what I've been saying the whole time - there may be no super important reason to have them, but if he wants to do it, there's no reason not to either.
It doesn't even have to be a mandatory thing. Just have some spare tubes and be like "hey we have these, if you feel like you might need them you can take them with you".

What about just having a remote controlled 20mm autocannon on the roof?

That would be vastly more effective and you could turn it on ground targets if need be.

Sure, it would carry weight and need ammo, but the AMX-30 had room for said gun so... It's not that hard to pull off.

[Dragonia Re Xzua]

Well, we have---

NO MECHS

--- relatively few fighting vehicles. Most of our military vehicles are utilitarian and/or used as support fire, in case of emergency. We have tanks, of course, but they are mid/late-Cold-War era tanks, most of them are second-hand T-62s and T-72s. The number of utilitarian military vehicles in our arsenal is too great to properly list.

[Gallia-]

I still stand by my assertion that "we probably won't need them" isn't a particularly pressing reason not to have them. The crew will feel better with them there if nothing else, and they could be useful for nearby infantry. A couple of launchers won't negatively affect the vehicle's performance. Sure, it's perfectly legit to choose not to issue them, but at the same time, there's no real downside to doing it. Which is what I've been saying the whole time - there may be no super important reason to have them, but if he wants to do it, there's no reason not to either.
It doesn't even have to be a mandatory thing. Just have some spare tubes and be like "hey we have these, if you feel like you might need them you can take them with you".

What about just having a remote controlled 20mm autocannon on the roof?

That would be vastly more effective and you could turn it on ground targets if need be.

Sure, it would carry weight and need ammo, but the AMX-30 had room for said gun so... It's not that hard to pull off.

AMX-30's 20mm was replaced with a 7.62mm because it turns out cannon coaxial guns are shit.

A tank has all its air defence needs taken care of by the main cannon.

Though if you can't mass a company-battalion strength wall of LRPs on a gunship platoon, you're probably dead.

[Dostanuot Loj]

If you allow your tankers to carry a few MANPADs in the stowage racks outside the turret, they will never carry any.

Smart tankers will realize they are useless. And instead fill that space with more important things like food, water, porn, camo nets, porn, more ammunition, souvenirs, random stuff, porn, and ammunition.

The only tank crews who would take such stuff are rebel crews who are poorly, or not even, trained, and just happened to grab that stuff. Any properly trained tank crew, from the US to Nigeria will leave them at base and use that space for vastly more important stuff.

[Rhodesialund]

If you allow your tankers to carry a few MANPADs in the stowage racks outside the turret, they will never carry any.

Smart tankers will realize they are useless. And instead fill that space with more important things like food, water, porn, camo nets, porn, more ammunition, souvenirs, random stuff, porn, and ammunition.

The only tank crews who would take such stuff are rebel crews who are poorly, or not even, trained, and just happened to grab that stuff. Any properly trained tank crew, from the US to Nigeria will leave them at base and use that space for vastly more important stuff.

Such as porn.

I've spent enough time with tankers to know that any nook or cranny in a tank will be stuffed with fun stuff. Heck, even tankers that were deployed in Germany would store their brats and sausages in the barrel of the tank.

If you saw a tank moving it's barrel up and down, you knew someone's sausages slid too far down it.

[Imperializt Russia]

If you allow your tankers to carry a few MANPADs in the stowage racks outside the turret, they will never carry any.

Smart tankers will realize they are useless. And instead fill that space with more important things like food, water, porn, camo nets, porn, more ammunition, souvenirs, random stuff, porn, and ammunition.

The only tank crews who would take such stuff are rebel crews who are poorly, or not even, trained, and just happened to grab that stuff. Any properly trained tank crew, from the US to Nigeria will leave them at base and use that space for vastly more important stuff.

Such as porn.

I've spent enough time with tankers to know that any nook or cranny in a tank will be stuffed with fun stuff. Heck, even tankers that were deployed in Germany would store their brats and sausages in the barrel of the tank.

If you saw a tank moving it's barrel up and down, you knew someone's sausages slid too far down it.

How is uranium shavings as a condiment for bratwurst?

[Immoren]

Such as porn.

I've spent enough time with tankers to know that any nook or cranny in a tank will be stuffed with fun stuff. Heck, even tankers that were deployed in Germany would store their brats and sausages in the barrel of the tank.

If you saw a tank moving it's barrel up and down, you knew someone's sausages slid too far down it.

How is uranium shavings as a condiment for bratwurst?

Gives your cheeks nice glow.

[Dostanuot Loj]

If you allow your tankers to carry a few MANPADs in the stowage racks outside the turret, they will never carry any.

Smart tankers will realize they are useless. And instead fill that space with more important things like food, water, porn, camo nets, porn, more ammunition, souvenirs, random stuff, porn, and ammunition.

The only tank crews who would take such stuff are rebel crews who are poorly, or not even, trained, and just happened to grab that stuff. Any properly trained tank crew, from the US to Nigeria will leave them at base and use that space for vastly more important stuff.

Such as porn.

I've spent enough time with tankers to know that any nook or cranny in a tank will be stuffed with fun stuff. Heck, even tankers that were deployed in Germany would store their brats and sausages in the barrel of the tank.

If you saw a tank moving it's barrel up and down, you knew someone's sausages slid too far down it.

The point being that, of course, practically everything will be more important then carrying MANPADS.

From porn, to ammo, to brats.

[Purpelia]

Er... this whole discussion has taken a very uncomfortable turn. I mean, my army is pretty much obsessed with standardized everything. And the way you people are talking that means I might need to produce standardized... well you get the picture.