Military Ground Vehicles of Your Nation [NO MECHS] Mark 8

[Fordorsia]

Getting out of a tank as fast as possible is more important than getting out of a car as fast as possible. Cause you know, the reason you need to get out of a tank quickly is likely because it has been disabled and about to be destroyed, or is in the process of blowing up. That doesn't happen with cars. Wearing a seat belt in a tank could very well get you killed, unless you only wear it outside of the combat zone.

Maybe I'm completely missing the point of this discussion though.

Maybe in WW2.

Staying inside a tank is generally safer than not tbh.

When fighting poor ill-equipped insurgents, sure. But in a conventional war I'd want to get the hell away from the tank as soon as possible, because modern armies eat tonks.

[Sediczja]

Getting out of a tank as fast as possible is more important than getting out of a car as fast as possible. Cause you know, the reason you need to get out of a tank quickly is likely because it has been disabled and about to be destroyed, or is in the process of blowing up. That doesn't happen with cars.

Don't F1 cars etc. have quick-release harnesses for pretty much that exact reason, though?

[Gallia-]

Maybe in WW2.

Staying inside a tank is generally safer than not tbh.

When fighting poor ill-equipped insurgents, sure. But in a conventional war I'd want to get the hell away from the tank as soon as possible, because modern armies eat tonks.

if you are fighting other tanks, you die when you leave

best to wait for a recovery vehicle

[Fordorsia]

Getting out of a tank as fast as possible is more important than getting out of a car as fast as possible. Cause you know, the reason you need to get out of a tank quickly is likely because it has been disabled and about to be destroyed, or is in the process of blowing up. That doesn't happen with cars.

Don't F1 cars etc. have quick-release harnesses for pretty much that exact reason, though?

F1 cars are pretty hard to get out of in a hurry. You need to take the steering wheel off first before your harness. That's hard to do when you're on fire and have just smashed into a wall.

Normal cars you just take the simple seat belt off and open the very large door right next to you. You car isn't being shot at with explosives and it isn't going to blow up. It's not comparable to getting out of tanks in a hurry.

When fighting poor ill-equipped insurgents, sure. But in a conventional war I'd want to get the hell away from the tank as soon as possible, because modern armies eat tonks.

if you are fighting other tanks, you die when you leave

best to wait for a recovery vehicle

Depends on the terrain. Open terrain yes you would die hard, but not in hills and shit, especially if you're right on the crest of a hill and are out of sight as soon as you jump off the tank.

[Purpelia]

Have you ever driven in a car? How long does it take you to remove your seat belt? I do not really think that you would need to do anything more complex here.

Getting out of a tank as fast as possible is more important than getting out of a car as fast as possible. Cause you know, the reason you need to get out of a tank quickly is likely because it has been disabled and about to be destroyed, or is in the process of blowing up. That doesn't happen with cars. Wearing a seat belt in a tank could very well get you killed, unless you only wear it outside of the combat zone.

Maybe I'm completely missing the point of this discussion though.

1. I don't know what you are using as a seat belt but the regular kind with a buckle that opens at the click of a button generally takes a second or two to remove at best. Unless your ammo has been doused with burning thermite or something you should be fine taking that long.

2. Modern tanks, especially ones with both the ammo and crew in the hull are designed so that even the most catastrophic of hits won't turn your tank into a burning wreck about to explode catastrophically. And if it did, the couple of seconds of head start you get on running away will hardly save you from the results of such an explosion.

3. If an enemy has just shot you and set your tank on fire it is generally assumed that he is not going to go away and vanish into thin air. Given how modern tanks are designed you are better off staying inside than trying to make a break for it whilst the enemy is shooting at you.

[Laritaia]

Fighter pilots generaly don't have to unstrap themselves from the seat when they need to get out quickly. They just press the bang switch and their seat leaves with them.

Have you ever driven in a car? How long does it take you to remove your seat belt? I do not really think that you would need to do anything more complex here.

Have you flown in a plane with 5 point seat harnesses?

I have, and i can tell you those things are fiddly as hell.

[Purpelia]

Have you ever driven in a car? How long does it take you to remove your seat belt? I do not really think that you would need to do anything more complex here.

Have you flown in a plane with 5 point seat harnesses?

I have, and i can tell you those things are fiddly as hell.

Yea but like why would you install such a thing when you can just use a seat belt? The point here isn't to immobilize the crew so that they can barely turn to talk to one another but to give them some stability and comfort on rough ground.

[Dostanuot Loj]

I get to use life experience and knowledge that is not military related so rarely, and this is one of those times.

So, we all know my interest in tanks. Another, practiced, interest of mine is racing.
From 2004-2007 I drove semi-professionally in RallyEast. So I have some experience with getting out of cars really fast.

And all I have to say is this: Especially in racing, getting out of a car fast is much more important than any tank in service today.

Fire. Fire is bad. And it spreads fast. And it is fairly common. There is a reason motorsports, especially rally, have layers upon layers of safety measures for this.

We drilled reactions so hard they are still second nature to me, and I haven't driven a race car in 8 years.

[Fordorsia]

I get to use life experience and knowledge that is not military related so rarely, and this is one of those times.

So, we all know my interest in tanks. Another, practiced, interest of mine is racing.
From 2004-2007 I drove semi-professionally in RallyEast. So I have some experience with getting out of cars really fast.

And all I have to say is this: Especially in racing, getting out of a car fast is much more important than any tank in service today.

Fire. Fire is bad. And it spreads fast. And it is fairly common. There is a reason motorsports, especially rally, have layers upon layers of safety measures for this.

We drilled reactions so hard they are still second nature to me, and I haven't driven a race car in 8 years.

Spooky ghost fires

[Purpelia]

I get to use life experience and knowledge that is not military related so rarely, and this is one of those times.

So, we all know my interest in tanks. Another, practiced, interest of mine is racing.
From 2004-2007 I drove semi-professionally in RallyEast. So I have some experience with getting out of cars really fast.

And all I have to say is this: Especially in racing, getting out of a car fast is much more important than any tank in service today.

Fire. Fire is bad. And it spreads fast. And it is fairly common. There is a reason motorsports, especially rally, have layers upon layers of safety measures for this.

We drilled reactions so hard they are still second nature to me, and I haven't driven a race car in 8 years.

Knowing nothing about motorsports I must ask. Do you use seat belts? And if so what kind?

[Dostanuot Loj]

I get to use life experience and knowledge that is not military related so rarely, and this is one of those times.

So, we all know my interest in tanks. Another, practiced, interest of mine is racing.
From 2004-2007 I drove semi-professionally in RallyEast. So I have some experience with getting out of cars really fast.

And all I have to say is this: Especially in racing, getting out of a car fast is much more important than any tank in service today.

Fire. Fire is bad. And it spreads fast. And it is fairly common. There is a reason motorsports, especially rally, have layers upon layers of safety measures for this.

We drilled reactions so hard they are still second nature to me, and I haven't driven a race car in 8 years.

Knowing nothing about motorsports I must ask. Do you use seat belts? And if so what kind?

Six point harness. I used several brands through the few years I drove, but they all had quick release mechanisms. Most were a simple level/flat piece of easy to move metal on the central buckle that would be pulled as part of the bail-out drill.

[Purpelia]

Six point harness. I used several brands through the few years I drove, but they all had quick release mechanisms. Most were a simple level/flat piece of easy to move metal on the central buckle that would be pulled as part of the bail-out drill.

And how much did wearing one restrict your mobility whilst sitting down? Like were you completely tied in or was it more like a regular seat belt?

[Dostanuot Loj]

Six point harness. I used several brands through the few years I drove, but they all had quick release mechanisms. Most were a simple level/flat piece of easy to move metal on the central buckle that would be pulled as part of the bail-out drill.

And how much did wearing one restrict your mobility whilst sitting down? Like were you completely tied in or was it more like a regular seat belt?

I wasn't moving from that seat.
Everything important was within arms reach of me or my co-driver without moving my back from the seat, because I was strapped in tight.

This includes two fire extinguishers (one each), the emergency beacon shut off*, all master switches (a lot), first aid kit, both seat belt releases, and so on and so on.
There were a lot of master switches. We could turn practically everything on or off individually or in large groups with ease.

* Starting with the first year I drove all cars in the series were supposed to have an emergency beacon based on GPS that would go off as soon as engine shut off, or a selection of sensors being tripped saying the car was in a major crash. The point was help would be on the way if we were unconscious or dead. We had 15 seconds to "turn it off" before it broadcast to everyone we were incapacitated. So part of the drill was to hit the huge red button to turn that off. The beacon still went off, but the response team would know we were still alive.

[Pteroslavia]

Not sure if this is the place for some discussion/feedback on pre-WWI armored vehicles, but I wanted to see what anyone thought about these that I made for use before/during WWI and the conflicts that precluded it. I can drum up the stats for anyone who would like to see them:

http://orig09.deviantart.net/777b/f/2015/249/d/d/army_contest_ka_sp_1_12_by_herrmajorloveswar-d944cka.png

[Theodosiya]

Anyone ever heard T-72 with 120mm? Ukraine prototyped one.

[Gallia-]

And how much did wearing one restrict your mobility whilst sitting down? Like were you completely tied in or was it more like a regular seat belt?

I wasn't moving from that seat.
Everything important was within arms reach of me or my co-driver without moving my back from the seat, because I was strapped in tight.

This includes two fire extinguishers (one each), the emergency beacon shut off*, all master switches (a lot), first aid kit, both seat belt releases, and so on and so on.
There were a lot of master switches. We could turn practically everything on or off individually or in large groups with ease.

* Starting with the first year I drove all cars in the series were supposed to have an emergency beacon based on GPS that would go off as soon as engine shut off, or a selection of sensors being tripped saying the car was in a major crash. The point was help would be on the way if we were unconscious or dead. We had 15 seconds to "turn it off" before it broadcast to everyone we were incapacitated. So part of the drill was to hit the huge red button to turn that off. The beacon still went off, but the response team would know we were still alive.

TBH everything in arms reach applies to modern tanks fwiw as well.

If you eliminate the loader, the need to move around is restricted to the TC, which isn't a huge deal rly since he can have cameras.

Five points for everyone like MBT-70 XM803.

[Imperializt Russia]

Anyone ever heard T-72 with 120mm? Ukraine prototyped one.

What about it? It was conceptualised certainly, I don't know if it was ever built.
It was a concept to convert the T-72 tank to take a turret with the 120mm NATO-spec gun and a bustle autoloader.

[Dostanuot Loj]

I wasn't moving from that seat.
Everything important was within arms reach of me or my co-driver without moving my back from the seat, because I was strapped in tight.

This includes two fire extinguishers (one each), the emergency beacon shut off*, all master switches (a lot), first aid kit, both seat belt releases, and so on and so on.
There were a lot of master switches. We could turn practically everything on or off individually or in large groups with ease.

* Starting with the first year I drove all cars in the series were supposed to have an emergency beacon based on GPS that would go off as soon as engine shut off, or a selection of sensors being tripped saying the car was in a major crash. The point was help would be on the way if we were unconscious or dead. We had 15 seconds to "turn it off" before it broadcast to everyone we were incapacitated. So part of the drill was to hit the huge red button to turn that off. The beacon still went off, but the response team would know we were still alive.

TBH everything in arms reach applies to modern tanks fwiw as well.

If you eliminate the loader, the need to move around is restricted to the TC, which isn't a huge deal rly since he can have cameras.

Five points for everyone like MBT-70 XM803.

Six points.
Five is uncomfortable if it ever gets used.

[Gallia-]

TBH everything in arms reach applies to modern tanks fwiw as well.

If you eliminate the loader, the need to move around is restricted to the TC, which isn't a huge deal rly since he can have cameras.

Five points for everyone like MBT-70 XM803.

Six points.
Five is uncomfortable if it ever gets used.

drawings of crew seats show five points tho

only one crotch strap rip balls

[Dostanuot Loj]

Six points.
Five is uncomfortable if it ever gets used.

drawings of crew seats show five points tho

only one crotch strap rip balls

Technology has advanced, thankfully.

[Gallia-]

not for tankmen

[New Visegrad]

Since we're talking about crew compartments, here's some info about the Tiger XII's crew compartment.

The four crewmen (commander, driver, gunner, battlespace systems) all sit in the same compartment, which is located in the centre of the vehicle immediately below the turret. They are positioned, securely strapped in, in chairs around the outside of the bridge (I'm calling it a bridge because fuck you), with a circular gangway connecting them around the outside of a central table, which doubles as a holoprojection array. Each crew member has holographic displays for their systems, as well as the ability to link directly into the vehicle's sensors. The seats can be raised up through the turret to hatches on the roof, and there is an additional position with no seat that functions as an access elevator for any supplementary personnel. This position can also descend further into the hull to the maintenance tubes accessing the power core and other internal systems.

For the most part, the crew remain linked into the tank's systems and control it via that means. Theoretically, any of the crew could control the tank alone, but the modern battlefield demands more multi-tasking than one person can handle.

Roles:
COMMANDER: Commands. Also communicates with Operations and other units on the battlefield. Usually found watching feeds from the tank's sensors and drones.
DRIVER: Drives. When the tank is stationary, in charge of the tank's 2x2 25mm autocannons, which are located on the upper glacis.
GUNNER: Guns. Also responsible for the tank's VMACS missile launchers. Selects shell yields based on commander's orders; these selections are put into effect by the autoloader system.
BATTLESPACE SYSTEMS: Controls the tank's drones and electronic warfare systems, as well as low-level coordination with nearby infantry.

[Fordorsia]

Made things more better, like the door being bigger and two-piece, the wheels bigger and the glorious Fordflag.



So with the windshield frame things and the sides (middle section) being 30mm steel and the rest being 20mm, would it be decent enough protection? What does 20mm and 30mm protect against?

[Schwere Panzer Abieltung 502]

Since we're talking about crew compartments, here's some info about the Tiger XII's crew compartment.

The four crewmen (commander, driver, gunner, battlespace systems) all sit in the same compartment, which is located in the centre of the vehicle immediately below the turret. They are positioned, securely strapped in, in chairs around the outside of the bridge (I'm calling it a bridge because fuck you), with a circular gangway connecting them around the outside of a central table, which doubles as a holoprojection array. Each crew member has holographic displays for their systems, as well as the ability to link directly into the vehicle's sensors. The seats can be raised up through the turret to hatches on the roof, and there is an additional position with no seat that functions as an access elevator for any supplementary personnel. This position can also descend further into the hull to the maintenance tubes accessing the power core and other internal systems.

For the most part, the crew remain linked into the tank's systems and control it via that means. Theoretically, any of the crew could control the tank alone, but the modern battlefield demands more multi-tasking than one person can handle.

Roles:
COMMANDER: Commands. Also communicates with Operations and other units on the battlefield. Usually found watching feeds from the tank's sensors and drones.
DRIVER: Drives. When the tank is stationary, in charge of the tank's 2x2 25mm autocannons, which are located on the upper glacis.
GUNNER: Guns. Also responsible for the tank's VMACS missile launchers. Selects shell yields based on commander's orders; these selections are put into effect by the autoloader system.
BATTLESPACE SYSTEMS: Controls the tank's drones and electronic warfare systems, as well as low-level coordination with nearby infantry.

A few things:
1. Interleave those bogies or it's not a Tiger.
2. Why the huge 400mm gun? The drag on your shells will be insane.
3. Having holes in your front glacis - in this case for the autocannons - will make the entire glacis much weaker.

Just how big is this supposed to be?

[New Visegrad]

Since we're talking about crew compartments, here's some info about the Tiger XII's crew compartment.

The four crewmen (commander, driver, gunner, battlespace systems) all sit in the same compartment, which is located in the centre of the vehicle immediately below the turret. They are positioned, securely strapped in, in chairs around the outside of the bridge (I'm calling it a bridge because fuck you), with a circular gangway connecting them around the outside of a central table, which doubles as a holoprojection array. Each crew member has holographic displays for their systems, as well as the ability to link directly into the vehicle's sensors. The seats can be raised up through the turret to hatches on the roof, and there is an additional position with no seat that functions as an access elevator for any supplementary personnel. This position can also descend further into the hull to the maintenance tubes accessing the power core and other internal systems.

For the most part, the crew remain linked into the tank's systems and control it via that means. Theoretically, any of the crew could control the tank alone, but the modern battlefield demands more multi-tasking than one person can handle.

Roles:
COMMANDER: Commands. Also communicates with Operations and other units on the battlefield. Usually found watching feeds from the tank's sensors and drones.
DRIVER: Drives. When the tank is stationary, in charge of the tank's 2x2 25mm autocannons, which are located on the upper glacis.
GUNNER: Guns. Also responsible for the tank's VMACS missile launchers. Selects shell yields based on commander's orders; these selections are put into effect by the autoloader system.
BATTLESPACE SYSTEMS: Controls the tank's drones and electronic warfare systems, as well as low-level coordination with nearby infantry.

A few things:
1. Interleave those bogies or it's not a Tiger.

get out

2. Why the huge 400mm gun? The drag on your shells will be insane.

Being able to nuke entire armoured platoons from 20km out is AWESOME.

3. Having holes in your front glacis - in this case for the autocannons - will make the entire glacis much weaker.

I don't think two small recesses (they're not holes, really - the armour extends backwards behind the guns, with the loading and aiming systems located below them) will compromise the armour to any significant extent.

Just how big is this supposed to be?

That picture is accurately scaled for a 400mm gun. I think I need to redo it at some point to make the scale more apparent but contrary to some assertions I did know how big a 400mm gun is when designing it.